Newcastle Diet

[Kezspain]

hi has anyone done the newcastle diet without the success achieved by some of the members - I have been doing the diet for 5 weeks have lost 12 kilos in weight so am really pleased with that but the BG levels are still high the lowest reaing I have got over the 5 weeks is 7 whereas everyone else seems to be getting great readings pretty much straight away. I have also been exercising, actually managed to get Optifast as in the study and have been making soup from the allowed vegetables. Any advice would be appreciated.


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[Elz67]

Fantastic thread! Well done on the weight loss. Im starting tomorrow! I need to know the full list of foods you can eat. The page for the Newcastle diet plan recipies hint that the list of veg is not exclusive so was wondering if a larger list exists? Also, would porridge oats made with water be included? Cheers x


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[Paulwbm]

I agree. This has been a great thread to read and to follow the progress of the people committing to the Newcastle diet. I'm a newbie and considering this diet, not immediately because of coming holidays etc but certainly this year.

Does anyone know whether or not there is a minimum starting weight for this diet? I'd be worried if I lost massive amounts as I'm only slightly overweight at present, although its all visceral / belly fat -the hard stuff. I'm also on a high blood pressure tablet. Would consult the medical profession and a dietician too.


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[Elz67]

My blood pressure has lowered since the diet and is now 120/80 marvellous! BM was 21-28 now 4.5-9.0!


Elz x

 

[Yorksman]

Does anyone know whether or not there is a minimum starting weight for this diet? I'd be worried if I lost massive amounts as I'm only slightly overweight at present, although its all visceral / belly fat -the hard stuff. I'm also on a high blood pressure tablet.

The Magnetic Resonance Centre at Newcastle Uni did the original study in 2011 and now maintain a webpage with links:
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/di ... versal.htm

They also published a follow up of people with diabetes who self reported in April 2013:

Population response to information on reversibility of Type 2 diabetes
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/di ... ctions.pdf

The smallest weight loss in Subject 1 is reported as 7.3 Kg and then with an after diet weight gain of 3.0 Kg so, a net 4.3 Kg weight loss which resulted in an HBA1c of 5.8%, 8 months after finishing the diet.

 

[janeecee]

Would a gradual weight loss work as well (losing the same amount over a longer timescale), or is it the rapidness of the weight loss that makes the ND effective?


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[mrman]

A gradual weight loss is much better and not such a shock to the body. It will allow your metabolism to be more effective and also less likely to gain the weight back rapidly. Also your skin needs time to shrink with you so the more gradual the more toned u will remain.

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[Yorksman]

Would a gradual weight loss work as well (losing the same amount over a longer timescale), or is it the rapidness of the weight loss that makes the ND effective?

The idea of a rapid weight loss where the pancreas is 'shocked' back into action came from the 2011 study which attempted to mimick the effect of severe calorie restriction seen in patients who underwent bariatric surgery. Thinking seems to have changed a little since then however and it appears to dependent on a relationship between the liver triglycerides and pancreatic trigycerides. Although the loss of the beta cell function has been seen as progressive, it appears that the decline can be halted. However, time does play a part because what has been lost cannot be recovered and you are stuck with what's left so the tipping point to make you diabetic again is more easily reached.

This correlation with time can be seen in the data with 73% of people with diabetes less than 4 years being able to reverse it falling to 43% in people who had it more than 8 years. I presume, but don't know for sure, that this is due to a greater loss of the beta cell mass in those who have had it for a longer time. Nonetheless, the timescales are longer and more elastic than previously thought and the follow up concludes:

"These data demonstrate that intentional weight loss achieved at home by health-motivated individuals can reverse Type 2 diabetes. Diabetes reversal should be a goal in the management of Type 2 diabetes."

As the prevous poster mentioned, slower weight loss is more likely to be maintained. I have lost 28Kg since christmas but eat well. It is about eating the right foods and learning how to enjoy certain foods rather than sheer will power and looking the other way.

 

[Anonymous]

Would a gradual weight loss work as well (losing the same amount over a longer timescale), or is it the rapidness of the weight loss that makes the ND effective?


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One of the characteristics of the Newcastle Diet is the rapid 'improvement' in bGs and weight loss in most cases over a short period. This is attractive to people, for obvious reasons. Once the period of dieting is over, people then have the decision to (1) continue on their new regime over the longer term or (2) to gradually introduce some more carbs into their diet. Point (1) is easy in the sense that people just carry on with the diet. They only have will-power and temptation to deal with. (2) is much harder because, having cut out so many carbs, people then have a whole raft and/or combination of foods to 'test' which is a very lengthy process. There are people who are still testing each meal after 6 months or more to discover what they can or can't eat. There will always be the odd meal which spikes your bGs but I wouldn't go so far as to reduce or eliminate something because of this. It is the avoidance of 'persistently high bGs' that, I understand, is the aim of bG control.

If you can live with a gradual weight loss, then you could consider taking what you eat now and reduce portions of carbs to see what happens as a result. You may find the 'answer' more quickly than with option (1). Once your bGs have dropped to an acceptable level you can either choose to make no further changes to your diet or continue to experiment, depending on your personal bG & weight targets. An advantage of this approach is that you will reach a carb intake level (let's say 200g for the sake of argument) which will give you leeway in the event that you reach a point in the future when you are no long able to sustain your bGs at that level. If you choose to set a carb intake of, say 80g per day, then I would imagine that there is less room for manoeuvre.

I am down from 350g carbs to 250g per day without really noticing the difference in terms of apetite etc. That gives me a further, say 250g - 80g = 170g to play with. My weight is down by 2st in about 4 months and my average bG is 6.0. The downside is that weight loss is slow and with 'flat' periods, but, as other bloggers have said, is possibly preferable physically, if not psychologically.

 

[Elz67]

This is week four and ive not lost any weight this week but have stuck to diet plan. Bit disappointing but im sure its just the body adjusting to a full months activity. Hoping im back on track next week! But feeling very well indeed.


Elz x

 

[janeecee]

Thanks for your replies. I'm at the "pre" stage although I'm not overweight by any means, but I carry a bit more weight around the middle than I used to. I seem to be at a stage where I could "reverse" the trend towards diabetes. I can't exercise in the way other people can because I have ME/CFS, so my only option is diet. I could shift half a stone but I don't have too much weight to spare. My aim is to normalise my post prandial spikes which I can do by reducing my carb intake to about 90g per day. Whether the ND would kick start the pancreas in my case, I don't know. I'd like to think it could.

I understand that gradual weight loss is the usual recommendation, but would the ND effect happen with the loss of half a stone over 2-3 months? I'm not actually hung up on the number I see on the scales, I just want to get my blood sugar numbers down to a good healthy level.


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[Anonymous]

Thanks for your replies. I'm at the "pre" stage although I'm not overweight by any means, but I carry a bit more weight around the middle than I used to. I seem to be at a stage where I could "reverse" the trend towards diabetes. I can't exercise in the way other people can because I have ME/CFS, so my only option is diet. I could shift half a stone but I don't have too much weight to spare. My aim is to normalise my post prandial spikes which I can do by reducing my carb intake to about 90g per day. Whether the ND would kick start the pancreas in my case, I don't know. I'd like to think it could.

I understand that gradual weight loss is the usual recommendation, but would the ND effect happen with the loss of half a stone over 2-3 months? I'm not actually hung up on the number I see on the scales, I just want to get my blood sugar numbers down to a good healthy level.


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I would think that any significant reduction in your carbs (e.g 50g reduction per day? ... don't know what your daily intake is now) would both lower your bGs and lose that 1/2st in three months ... a good, realistic target!

 

[janeecee]

I've not really found a huge correlation between total daily carb intake and BG. For me, it seems to be about what the carbs are eaten with, and some sources are better than others. The carbs from an apple eaten with a meal have less impact than the equivalent in starchy carbs, for example. I've added some berry types of fruit to my breakfast with no noticeable impact on the 2 hour BG—although the carb content of that kind of fruit is low and they have quite a bit of fibre. I use MyFitnessPal to track carbs but I've found that the relationship between carbs and blood sugar isn't that simple.

I've also wondered about the diet shakes used in the ND as they seen to have quite a bit of sugar in them. I would probably use the Slimfast or supermarket own brands as the ones used on the ND study are hard to obtain and pricey. The info about the ND seems to suggest that any meal replacement shake would do.


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[the Boissetarian]

Hi All
I have started a new eating plan called the Fast Diet or 5:2 diet. 2 days a week on 500 calories and the other 5 days on normal eating. The 500cal days can be a bit hard, but have now got into the habit of not eating so much and counting calories - I try to keep to 1500 on non fast days
website is www.thefastdiet.co.uk they too have forums and it is good to read peoples success stories and a few failures too.
Have lost about 1.3kg since June 12, but more importantly my blood sugar levels are now back down low and am feeling a lot better.
This "diet" is scientifically based - read the book first about how the author did a lot of worldwide research into the benefits of fasting and eventually settled on the 5:2 plan, he did it himself and found the benefits and then recruited a nutritionist, who too tried it and was hooked and together they wrote the book The Fast Diet and the accompanying Fast Diet Cook Book.

 

[reverser]

Hi,
I discovered I was Type 2 in September 2012 entirely fortuitously. My GP here in France told me that it was incurable, and prescribed me Metformin, which I did not take. Instead I googled "reversal of Type 2 diabetes" and discovered the Newcastle Uni. experiment. Neither GP nor the specialist I am currently under are remotely interested in my 'discovery', even though I gave them the abstract of the experiment's results. They quietly change the subject and write another prescription. I did try Metformin recently and it made me nauseous, gave me stomach cramps and diarrhoea, so I stopped after a week. Finally, after mucking about with my diet for months and getting no support, I started the Newcastle Uni. experiment yesterday. I've drawn myself a graph to plot the fall in blood glucose. Latest HbA1c results are 10.4% (down from 12.3% last September). I don't have an HbA1c reader (only blood glucose), so I plan to do the eight week calorie restriction regime, then 4 weeks of very low-carb eating, and then arrange an HbA1c test (=12 weeks) in September. Then I plan to eat whatever I like (up to 1800 Kcal.)for a further 12 weeks, followed by another HbA1c test (December), hoping to see a permanent low %, which will indicate whether or not I'm cured. I've increased the amount of exercise I'm doing too. What worries me is that doctors seem happy to prescribe medicine instead of tackling obesity/exercise/lifestyle issues, which seem to be the root cause of much T2 diabetes. So patients take medicine and stay unhealthy! It's worth reading the Newcastle experiment abstract in 'Diabetologia' because, even if much of it is too technical for me to understand, the aims, criteria for participation, and results are clear. The aim is reversal not management of T2. Yesterday evening was very hard going, but I expect it to get easier. Optifast is not availble for purchase by the public, so I did a comparison with Slimfast (info available from Optifast site and on side of Slimfast tin) and they seem pretty similar in all respects, except that Optifast has added lactose (milk sugar), whereas Slimfast has none, but is made up with skimmed milk instead. In any case, I'm gritting my teeth for a rough 55 and a half days ahead. The forums have already given me some encouragement, and I'd appreciate any support anyone of you feels you can give me.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi,
I discovered I was Type 2 in September 2012 entirely fortuitously. My GP here in France told me that it was incurable, and prescribed me Metformin, which I did not take. Instead I googled "reversal of Type 2 diabetes" and discovered the Newcastle Uni. experiment. Neither GP nor the specialist I am currently under are remotely interested in my 'discovery', even though I gave them the abstract of the experiment's results. They quietly change the subject and write another prescription. I did try Metformin recently and it made me nauseous, gave me stomach cramps and diarrhoea, so I stopped after a week. Finally, after mucking about with my diet for months and getting no support, I started the Newcastle Uni. experiment yesterday. I've drawn myself a graph to plot the fall in blood glucose. Latest HbA1c results are 10.4% (down from 12.3% last September). I don't have an HbA1c reader (only blood glucose), so I plan to do the eight week calorie restriction regime, then 4 weeks of very low-carb eating, and then arrange an HbA1c test (=12 weeks) in September. Then I plan to eat whatever I like (up to 1800 Kcal.)for a further 12 weeks, followed by another HbA1c test (December), hoping to see a permanent low %, which will indicate whether or not I'm cured. I've increased the amount of exercise I'm doing too. What worries me is that doctors seem happy to prescribe medicine instead of tackling obesity/exercise/lifestyle issues, which seem to be the root cause of much T2 diabetes. So patients take medicine and stay unhealthy! It's worth reading the Newcastle experiment abstract in 'Diabetologia' because, even if much of it is too technical for me to understand, the aims, criteria for participation, and results are clear. The aim is reversal not management of T2. Yesterday evening was very hard going, but I expect it to get easier. Optifast is not availble for purchase by the public, so I did a comparison with Slimfast (info available from Optifast site and on side of Slimfast tin) and they seem pretty similar in all respects, except that Optifast has added lactose (milk sugar), whereas Slimfast has none, but is made up with skimmed milk instead. In any case, I'm gritting my teeth for a rough 55 and a half days ahead. The forums have already given me some encouragement, and I'd appreciate any support anyone of you feels you can give me.

Good luck. I suggest you add a glucose tolerance test in December after you have had your HbA1C test.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi,
I discovered I was Type 2 in September 2012 entirely fortuitously. My GP here in France told me that it was incurable, and prescribed me Metformin, which I did not take. Instead I googled "reversal of Type 2 diabetes" and discovered the Newcastle Uni. experiment. Neither GP nor the specialist I am currently under are remotely interested in my 'discovery', even though I gave them the abstract of the experiment's results. They quietly change the subject and write another prescription. I did try Metformin recently and it made me nauseous, gave me stomach cramps and diarrhoea, so I stopped after a week. Finally, after mucking about with my diet for months and getting no support, I started the Newcastle Uni. experiment yesterday. I've drawn myself a graph to plot the fall in blood glucose. Latest HbA1c results are 10.4% (down from 12.3% last September). I don't have an HbA1c reader (only blood glucose), so I plan to do the eight week calorie restriction regime, then 4 weeks of very low-carb eating, and then arrange an HbA1c test (=12 weeks) in September. Then I plan to eat whatever I like (up to 1800 Kcal.)for a further 12 weeks, followed by another HbA1c test (December), hoping to see a permanent low %, which will indicate whether or not I'm cured. I've increased the amount of exercise I'm doing too. What worries me is that doctors seem happy to prescribe medicine instead of tackling obesity/exercise/lifestyle issues, which seem to be the root cause of much T2 diabetes. So patients take medicine and stay unhealthy! It's worth reading the Newcastle experiment abstract in 'Diabetologia' because, even if much of it is too technical for me to understand, the aims, criteria for participation, and results are clear. The aim is reversal not management of T2. Yesterday evening was very hard going, but I expect it to get easier. Optifast is not availble for purchase by the public, so I did a comparison with Slimfast (info available from Optifast site and on side of Slimfast tin) and they seem pretty similar in all respects, except that Optifast has added lactose (milk sugar), whereas Slimfast has none, but is made up with skimmed milk instead. In any case, I'm gritting my teeth for a rough 55 and a half days ahead. The forums have already given me some encouragement, and I'd appreciate any support anyone of you feels you can give me.

Good luck with that. Can I suggest you add a glucose tolerance test in December after you have had your HbA1C test as that should prove that you are cured.

 

[Yorksman]

What worries me is that doctors seem happy to prescribe medicine instead of tackling obesity/exercise/lifestyle issues, which seem to be the root cause of much T2 diabetes.

The magnetic resonance team at Newcastle Uni did a follow up which you may find interesting:

Population response to information on reversibility of Type2 diabetes
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/di ... ctions.pdf

In particular and with reference to your point above, I give the conclusion:

"These data demonstrate that intentional weight loss achieved at home by health-motivated individuals can reverse Type 2 diabetes. Diabetes reversal should be a goal in the management of Type 2 diabetes."

 

[reverser]

Thanks Yorksman. Very encouraging. I will use your link to read the whole article.

 

[reverser]

Thanks to gezzathorpe for the suggestion. What is a glucose tolerance test. How is it carried out, and what does it reveal?