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Newcastle study- old guinea pig

Discussion in 'Weight Loss and Dieting' started by minn, Sep 12, 2011.

  1. johnts

    johnts · Well-Known Member

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    Re: Newcastle study- new guinea pig

    What ive notice is Ive stopped losing weight rapidly now the Plateau as they call it maybe thats why its creeped up a touch I dont know or just a coincidence just that both at the same time. Having said that I know the fat will take the longest to burn off. Bgs went from 5s to 6s then 7s over a week so that why i took metformin for a few days now next day its down again so tomorrow only going to take 1000mg and see what my BGs are like after that
     
  2. minn

    minn · Well-Known Member

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    Re: Newcastle study- new guinea pig

    Had to post this-
    FBG 5.4
    +2 hours 6.4
    supper 5.4
    +2 hours 6.8
    -where are these low post meal readings suddenly coming from? With one exception they've all been in the 7s and 8s and suddenly it's 6s twice in one day. Really wish I'd remembered the lunchtime one now.
     
  3. minn

    minn · Well-Known Member

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    Re: Newcastle study- new guinea pig

    Sorry John, I was so startled by those figures that I posted without really looking at what was there already. Plateaus are the worst thing in my opinion, especially on a diet as tough as this one. You have less to lose than I do so you have probably hit the buffers earlier than I will. I think the difference between week 6 and 7 with me has got to be fluid rather than fat- when I get on to the last 2 stone I fully expect to get stuck- just hope i can stick it out. I take it there's been no change in your food/activity etc that would explain the hike in BG?
     
  4. johnts

    johnts · Well-Known Member

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    Re: Newcastle study- new guinea pig

    Well I know the last stone or so I need to lose will take maybe a few good month to come off that is why im extending the diet to 16 weeks and this is the start today of week 7 in total at 600 cals per day or around that allthough Ive just weighed myself whilst typing this another 1lb drop in a week 12 stone 9 lbs now starting weight 7 weeks ago on commencement I was 13 stone 13 lbs so a 18lb drop if I continue to lose 1lb per week Ill be happy with that Your FBGs are good and post readings about +1 so you should be exstatic at that. The 8 weeks is in my eyes is too short of time to diet to get in to the normal BMI range I think and beleive then that once in the healthly normal BMI range we will see the possiblility of diabetese reversal. So if you need to extend your diet like me then do it I think that goes for anyone else that rebegins the diet later or starts it as I said the 8 weeks just isnt enough yes the BGs are super now but weight and fat are still there more to shift
     
  5. minn

    minn · Well-Known Member

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    Re: Newcastle study- new guinea pig

    I agree that 8 weeks won't do it. I think if you can do 16 weeks good for you- I don't think my willpower will take me that far. Better to slow things down in a controlled way than have a spectacular wipe out of everything I've done so far! This is the 8th week for me and yesterday's 2 hour plus readings were the first that have given me hope that it will work. The weight loss was nice, but doable on a more palatable regime. Getting consistent lower post meal readings is the real prize- I know it's only been 1 day but before that I felt that I was going to have to settle for the consolation prize- now I feel as though I'm still in with a chance. How long have you had diabetes? I was diagnosed 6/7 years ago which is probably a factor. Looking at other posts, illness and stress can mess up the tests- could that be a factor for you?
     
  6. johnts

    johnts · Well-Known Member

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    Re: Newcastle study- new guinea pig

    I was diagnosed type 2 in July 2005 but had pre diabetese 3 years prior to that all picked up at works medicals wish id taken notice back then but thought it was just the booze they were picking up. Now your on your official last week (8) and starting to get better FBGs and post BGs I would be in the frame of mind to try have that willpower and extend the diet
    Again my way of thinking get to your normal healthy BMI then I guess thats maybe when well see a reversal or put the Diabetese in remission at least. Who knows untill we get there It may be fruitfull, diabetese gone or still there but in a much better place. Its worth a bash at it and through my trails and tribulations hoping it is that way, and will give others the goal to try cure themselves... At the end of the day we all dont want this condition so we wont know unless we try it and if it dont work atleast I can say Ive tried
    Quote of today ( Time is a great healer and Time will tell)
     
  7. minn

    minn · Well-Known Member

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    Re: Newcastle study- new guinea pig

    Latest figures:-
    8.11.11
    FBG 4.9
    2hours 6.6
    Lunch 4.4
    2hours 7.9
    Bed 5.3

    9.11.11
    FBG 4.9
    2hours 7.2
    Bed 5.4

    10.11.11
    FBG 4.9
    2hours 6.0
    Lunch 5.4
    2hours 6.8
    Supper 5.6
    2hours 6.7
    Bed 5.4

    11.11.11
    FBG 4.6
     
  8. johnts

    johnts · Well-Known Member

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    Re: Newcastle study- new guinea pig

    Excellent Minn my FBGs today were 4.9
     
  9. SandieB

    SandieB · Active Member

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    Re: Newcastle study- new guinea pig

    Been following you minn, and wanted to congratulate you on your success so far. I've started this week, but I'm only doing 2 meal replacements as I know I won't be able to do all 3. I really want to give my weight loss a kick up the you know what to get me started! Only done 3 days so far, as I had an upset stomach at the beginning of the week...I guess you could say that was the equivalent of starting on Monday! Doing all right so far I think. Not really feeling hungry but all the fluids make me feel bloated, but empty if you know what I mean. So I really am craving some "proper" food.

    Good luck on the rest of your journey.
     
  10. minn

    minn · Well-Known Member

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    Re: Newcastle study- new guinea pig

    Thanks Sandie, sorry I didnt read your post earlier but it's been a very busy weekend. I found week 2 the hardest of the lot, and I know exactly what you mean about craving proper food. Just grit your teeth and stick with it- it's worth it in the end. I think J has a point when he says that we should keep going until the BMI is reached but I dont think I could do it without a catastrophic binge, so as of tomorrow I'll be eating, but sensibly. As promised to V I'll post a full account tomorrow. For now my FBG this morning was 4.4- lowest yet.
     
  11. minn

    minn · Well-Known Member

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    Re: Newcastle study- new guinea pig

    Quick post- busy morning.
    12.11.11- forgot to test

    13.11.11
    FBG 4.4
    bed 5.7

    14.11.11
    FBG 4.4

    8 weeks done. Lost 2 stones 8 pounds ( last weeks loss 4 lb). Much improved BG figures. BMI 28.0 down from 33.1 at the start. Waist measurement down 5 inches.
     
  12. johnts

    johnts · Well-Known Member

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    Re: Newcastle study- new guinea pig

    Good stuff Minn, Im starting week 8 tomorrow but at present Ive lost 20lbs BGs down from 14 to average of 5.8 and bmi down from 28.8 to 25.8 still going to continue my diet for another 9 weeks see where I am then. But you have done superbly just shows you what just 8 weeks can do try keep it up for longer youll see and benefit the outcome
     
  13. viviennem

    viviennem Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Re: Newcastle study- new guinea pig

    I've been following you both with interest, Minn and johnts, though I haven't posted much. But I have to say - congratulations to both of you! :clap: :thumbup: . You've both done really well, and you've given us such an inspiration!

    Well done both!

    Viv 8)
     
  14. minn

    minn · Well-Known Member

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    Re: Newcastle study- new guinea pig

    Sorry - this is a dreadfully long post.

    14.11.11. finished the 8 weeks of the Newcastle Study diet.
    Weight loss 2 stones 8 lb
    BMI down from 33.1 to 28.0
    FBG down from 9.4 to 4.4
    Waistline reduced by 5 inches.

    Disclaimer: inevitably my experience of the diet is warped by my age/metabolism/personality/family situation/other meds etc. Everyone is different and in a different situation:- someone else’s experience won’t necessarily be similar to mine.

    At first I stuck absolutely rigidly to the diet; I had 3 slimfast shakes made with water and one cereal bowl of salad, plus the 3+ litres of water and Ceylon, green or white tea without milk when I wanted a hot drink ( black coffee tasted odd- no idea why). As the weeks passed from time to time I dropped one shake- either because I got up late or just didn’t want it in the evening. I genuinely didn’t have anything else- not out of virtue but because I knew that one lapse would be the end of it- I’m not very good at getting back on the wagon. I think self knowledge is a useful tool in this- I know that my self control is dodgy, so I tried to set myself up for success rather than failure. The first week was reasonably easy- I’ve never had any trouble starting a diet, it’s sticking to it that’s the problem and I don’t suppose that I’m alone in that. I didn’t feel hungry, and as I said at the start I was psyched up for it, having planned it several weeks earlier for a time when there was no socialising and the universities had gone back so the family’s two biggest eaters were gone. I stocked up on what I needed, bought some new accurate scales and a BG monitor and got on with it.

    When you’re the family cook it is hard to stick with a diet if everyone else wants ‘normal’ meals. I got over that by either feeding them salad with chicken or fish and potatoes (which I’ve never been particularly bothered about eating) or ready meals which my daughter kindly heated and served up so that I didn’t have to be tempted. Weekends were harder- pizza, pasta, bread and cheese, salami, wine etc. I just kept out of the way until they had finished eating, though the smell lingered on and made it a bit harder. Everyone was very supportive- it would require absolutely cast iron self control (which I don’t possess) if the family weren’t onside. Still hard to sit watching TV or chatting with glasses of wine around, and fizzy water is no substitute. For those who live alone it would be more straightforward- just have the allowed foods in the house- no temptation (though we all know how easy it is to walk to the nearest shop to buy something we shouldn’t). As a sideline it was interesting to find that my husband lost 7lb, partly because he didn’t want to make it even worse for me by snacking (and there wasn’t much in the house to snack on), partly from the built in portion control with ready meals as opposed to my cooking, and partly from the extra ‘salady’ meals, which weren’t popular at the time, but did the trick for him too. (He would like to lose a few stone himself.)

    The second week was definitely the hardest, not because of hunger but boredom with a largely liquid diet and still a long way to go- I am a person who likes to eat and whose social life tends to revolve round eating, so ‘eating’ just for fuel, without an enjoyment element is hard, and I didn’t see many people- mostly friends who were also on one diet or another. As the weeks passed I had more invested in it and luckily the weeks of the least weight loss seemed to be the best FBGs and vice versa, so there was always something to encourage me to keep going. I don’t know how J managed when he hit a plateau and the BG went up- I would have cracked I’m sure. The last weekend was also hard- everyone at home and without my daughter I would have cracked and had a glass of wine.

    What helped me to stay on the wagon, besides moral support from the family? I kept my spare time full of things to do that didn’t involve food. Went to the pictures, an art gallery, the theatre; read a lot of books, played the piano, took an extra exercise class; cleared a backlog of little jobs in the house and garden, had a big decluttering session, and a lot of trips to the recycling place. Anything to keep busy. The house is really clean, cleaner than it will ever be again I suspect- I loathe housework, but if you’re doing housework you aren’t drifting to the kitchen and the fridge. A tip (from a friend) for the ladies- nail varnish- if you’re waiting for it to dry you can’t be eating, even if it’s just clear (my hands aren’t steady enough for colours!). I also think that posting all the figures on the forum kept me on the straight and narrow (thank you for suggesting it Viv!) and the helpful comments made and the fact that people were reading it even if they didn’t comment was a spur. Reading other people’s experiences had confirmed my decision to do it (that’s how I found the forum in the first place) - having John doing it at the same time and seeing his posts was an encouragement to keep at it. I admire his resolve to keep going until he gets to his target.

    Problems/ unexpected aspects?
    1. Liquid diet is boring- I had raw veg/salad every night to give myself something to chew.
    2. Stale mouth- yellow tongue- the diet or the black tea? I don’t know but I got through a lot of mouthwash and brushed my teeth several times a day.
    3. Not a big fan of sweet things so the shakes were not to my taste. Bread, butter, cheese and salami are my downfall not puddings and sweets. Would have preferred a soup type of diet drink like optifast if I could have obtained it.
    4. Tiredness and headaches in the first couple of weeks, but that is usual on any diet as a friend who has tried them all reminded me. I haven’t had more energy as some people seem to have done- might be me, might be my epilepsy meds which tend to dope you down.
    5. All that water- it’s very good for you but the number of trips to the loo can be a problem. I tried to get at least 2/3 of it drunk by lunchtime but it isn’t always possible if your day takes you somewhere where it isn’t convenient or even possible to keep going to the loo. I found that on some days I was making it up in the late afternoon/ early evening and then I was up half the night.
    6. Weirdly by the 6th week my sense of smell was more acute- not always a bonus- for example a lot of people seem to me, but not to others, to have bad breath lately, and people who wear a lot of perfume are overpowering- very odd.
    7. Feel the cold a lot- probably a result of doing it in the autumn when the temperature is dropping. I would rather put an extra sweater on than have the built in insulation back!

    Advantages?
    1. Simplicity- it might be boring but it is easy to do and you don’t have to think about what to eat- it’s prescribed. Making up the shakes doesn’t require much effort and you don’t even have to open the fridge to do it so the occasion of temptation is much reduced- just the evening salad bowl- hardly have to think about food at all, which helps.
    2. Really fast weight loss which is a big psychological boost for me – plateaus push me off the wagon faster than anything else- but can I keep it off? Time will tell.
    3. As a direct result of that it’s easier to cope with exercise- no longer have to routinely have a session with a hot beanbag on my dodgy knee after exercise class, which in turn makes me less likely to find an excuse to skip it, and more likely to push myself a bit while I’m doing it. General mobility much better.
    4. Much improved BG figures- again, can I keep them that way? GPs blood test will be interesting. So will my own if I can remember to do them- will try and do the full set at least once a week- or would odd days be ok- breakfast one day, lunch another etc? That would be easier to manage.


    Now the 6 million dollar question- has it put the diabetes into remission? I don’t know, and before someone else says it, I agree that I can’t know, without the benefit of the barrage of tests the original trial members had and a lot of follow up. None of us are going to get that but it doesn’t mean that we have to sit tight and resign ourselves to a growing list of prescriptions because there’s nothing else officially on offer, (unless of course we are happy with that- it’s a free country). In my case I won’t be returning to ‘normal’ eating until I’ve lost another couple of stones, so I can’t even do a meaningful self test after meals check until I’ve done that- in my experience it will be about 12 months (that doesn’t allow for the inevitable lapses and the age difference of 20 years since the last time I did this). I also don’t know what effect the sometimes very large doses of various anti epilepsy meds over 30 years have had. No one on the HCP side is able to tell me. It is possible that for me there is no going back. If I eventually have to take all those extra meds at least I will have done my best to avoid it.

    Perhaps if I had been encouraged to monitor my BG when first diagnosed it wouldn’t have reached this point (and I intend to tell the GP so). The full test once a year isn’t particularly helpful when it comes to control- it just ticks an NHS box, which appears to be all that matters in this area, and don’t even get me started on what passes for dietary advice. But, FBG, BMI and waistline measurements are all encouraging. I hope that it has begun the process, I hope that I can carry on the good work, and I will keep monitoring myself to see. Even if it hasn’t, at the moment the fringe benefits of losing over 2 1/2 stones aren’t a bad consolation prize!
     
  15. minn

    minn · Well-Known Member

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    Re: Newcastle study- new guinea pig

    First day of food
    FBG 4.4
    Bfast 5.4
    +2 hours 6.2
    Lunch (3 3/4 hours post bfast) 7.0 !!
    + 2 hours 6.2
    Evening forgot
    Bed 5.7

    Boiled egg and a slice of sunflower seed Vogel bread- they aren't kidding about slow release. Not freaking out too much as it worked itself out over the day and this mornings FBG is 4.8. Should I be worried about a spike like that?
     
  16. johnts

    johnts · Well-Known Member

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    Re: Newcastle study- new guinea pig

    Are you eating normally again Minn? the spike is obviously a few carbs but if its much less post 2 hours then I wouldnt worry too much but the usual story watch the carbs
     
  17. minn

    minn · Well-Known Member

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    Re: Newcastle study- new guinea pig

    No
    Boiled egg and 1 slice Vogel bread
    Crab and tomato salad
    Plaice and salad

    No more than 750 cals. The spike was before lunch so it must be the 16.5 carbs in the bread slow releasing- but is this good or bad ?
     
  18. johnts

    johnts · Well-Known Member

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    Re: Newcastle study- new guinea pig

    Not sure how to answer that its not fantastically high in carbs think normal bread is around 15 but if The Bgs comming down which it has I dont suppose it would make much difference I had one of my mothers small plate pies chicken and leek my BGs went up to 7.1 then I had another few days later and my bg went to 10.1 so ok carby . Think its maybe best to try still to lower carbs but as we all know what choice is there out there, when you think the food is healthy and it turns out spiking your BGs think its trial and error finding out foods suit you and what dont. Lo carb with lowish calories would maybe the way to continue
     
  19. SandieB

    SandieB · Active Member

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    Re: Newcastle study- new guinea pig

    Well done on sticking with it minn. I shall follow your continued progress with interest. Can't add anything intelligent to your query about the spike though!

    I've been doing Optislim for about a week now, and have lost 5 lbs although I did have an upset stomach at the beginning of last week, so it may not have been that much otherwise! Not sure how long I can keep it up though....I am very weakwilled :? I succumbed to a roast dinner on Sunday!

    I've been having the shakes for breakfast and dinner as I didn't want to be having to explain myself to people at work, but last night I made some very low calorie veg soup (less than 200 cals) which I have had for lunch today and am calling it an Optislim soup (the soups and meals for these sort of things are usually absolutely disgusting) so I've left myself able to eat a low cal meal this evening.
     
  20. minn

    minn · Well-Known Member

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    Re: Newcastle study- new guinea pig

    Try and stay with it Sandie-it's worth it in the end. Have been very busy, so not checking here and not testing as much as would probably be useful. To be honest (and this makes me sound like a complete wuss) my fingers could do with a break from testing- I bruise easily and spectacularly and they are covered in little purple and yellow marks.
    Here's what I do have

    15.11.11
    FBG 4.8
    Bed 5.2

    16.11.11
    FBG 4.2
    Lunch 6.4 (Vogel toast again but better)
    +2 hours 5.9
    Bed 5.4

    17.11.11
    FBG 4.8

    I expect it will take a while to settle down- I'm delighted to report that the yellow tongue went after 48 hours on real food!
     
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