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No meds for 3 days experiment

Discussion in 'Type 2 Diabetes' started by Petaluk, May 6, 2018.

  1. Petaluk

    Petaluk Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    On LCMF diet (around 20g)


    Doctor advised 1 metformin 500mg daily for week then increase to 1000mg a day plus Xenical


    I did go LFHF diet for first couple of days as undecided about taking meds.

    Relented and took 1 x 500mg metformin for about 10 days - got my meter in this time and readings were good generally 4 - 5

    Did try 1000mg a day but after reading other people’s experiences, thought I didn’t need it, so returned to 1 x 500 mg a day

    Did try 1 Xenical after a fatty meal, but after googling official medicine info and interactions - have decided not worth it.


    Today 6 May 2018 I am going diabetic medication free for 3 days and see if there is much difference. I will take my fasting and nighttime bg and 2 hour after breakfast readings( I always eat the same breakfast)

    From this forum I understand fasting should be under 7

    2 hours after a meal should be no more than +2 and bedtime should be 9 or under.

    I will post my results in 3 days :)
     
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  2. Rachox

    Rachox Type 2 (in remission!) · Moderator
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    Just a couple of things, I’m not sure that three days will give you any useful information. Metformin is not a particularly fast acting drug, it builds up in your system over a week or so, therefore giving it up for only three days I don’t think the effect will have completely worn off during that time. Also I think during a trial of this kind you’d need to test fasting then BEFORE and 2 hours after EVERY meal then bedtime. You may well miss spikes by omitting complete meals and also you need to compare before meals to after meals. Just my opinion.
     
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  3. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
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    Hi there Petaluk - good luck with your experiment.

    My only comment to add would be that Metformin does work on a dose-by-dose basis, rather it builds up in your system to reach your therapeutic dose. On that basis, it takes a few days for Metformin to make the maximum impact, and by the same token or reducing ro stopping it, it can take a while to show any difference.

    All of that said, if you are on a veru modest dose (as you are), the impacts will likely have been gentle in any case.

    Keep testing, and noting your results so that you can go back and review them after a few days or weeks.
     
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  4. KK123

    KK123 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure even tweaks in basal insulin work that quickly. When I tweak mine by a unit or two it takes 3 or 4 days to see any result.
     
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  5. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    I'm not sure where the under 9 at bedtime comes in. Your bedtime number should be less than or similar to your morning fasting. (under 7)
     
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  6. Petaluk

    Petaluk Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Someone said it on here :/
     
  7. Petaluk

    Petaluk Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Well just tested my bs at 2.45 minutes after breakfast (gardener turned up so missed alarm) and quite shocked at result although it was 45 minutes later than usual
    Was 4.8 now 6.6!!
    Yesterday it was 5.1 then 6.3
    Day before 5.0 then 5.7 (although I did have 5 small steamed mushrooms as well as usual breakfast, as below)

    My daily breakfast is
    one slice (small loaf size) of hovis granary bread (15.3g carbs of which sugars 1.1g)
    2 eggs fried in olive oil
    Garnished with some grated extra mature pilgrims cheese and Sainsburys basic smooth pepper
    (This is most of my carbs that I eat a day - other than salad and avacardo, veggies etc)

    Hmmmm
     
  8. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    Possibly someone using insulin, as insulin makes a big difference. They need to be careful not to go to bed too low in case they hypo.
     
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  9. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    From the time I took control of my treatment - Christmas 2016, and threw the Metformin and statin into the bin - it was several months before I was sure that I had it beaten - 80 days from diagnosis I had a blood test which showed Hba1c of 47 - just out of the diabetic range - I did get all sorts of ups and downs, so don't assume that what you see for several days running is going to go on that way - good or bad. I think it takes some weeks for the Metformin to be got rid of, and then even longer for normality to return - for me normal is low carb. It has to be like that for the rest of my life - but as it is a great way of eating I'd regret being on anything else.
     
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  10. Petaluk

    Petaluk Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I went to Diabetic nurse on 17 April for blood test ( I had fasted but apparently not necessary) then on 24 April for more blood tests

    These are my levels

    24 April 2018
    O/E - height 165.1cm
    Target diastolic blood pressure 80
    Target systolic blood pressure 140
    Target cholesterol level 4
    HBA1 target level - IFCC standardised 48
    O/E bood pressure reading 113/71
    Ideal weight 62.7 kg
    Body mass index 40.4
    O/E weight 110 kg
    19 April 2018 ! HbA1c level - IFCC standardised 56
    Known diabetic

    Serum cholesterol 3.9
    Serum triglycerides 1
    Serum HDL cholesterol level 1
    Calculated LDL cholesterol lev 2.4
    Serum cholesterol/HDL ratio 3.9
    Se non HDL cholesterol level 2.9

    Liver function test - speak to doctor
    Serum total bilirubin level 10
    Serum alkaline phosphatase 104
    ! Serum ALT level 89
    Serium albumin 43

    17 April 2018
    ! Serum glucose level 6.9
    Reference range applies to fasting glucose

    ! Full blood count FBC
    Speak to doctor
    Total white cell count 9.2


    Does anyone know or can translate/ simplify these results :D
    my GP didn’t have time to explain just printed it out for me when I asked ( thanks to you guys advice - thanks!)

    Btw there is more information on the sheets but I’d be here all day lol
     
  11. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    Bilirubin, alkaline phosphate and albumin all within normal reference range.
    The ALT is high and this is a marker for a fatty liver. It should be between 3 and 53.

    Your HDL is quite low. It should be 1.2 to 3.5. This is your good cholesterol.
    The rest look OK to me. Are you taking statins?

    I do not know why you are advised to speak to the doctor about your full blood count. It only mentions the white cell count, which in range albeit at the higher end. My lab report says it should be between 4 and 11. (High WBC count indicates inflammation)

    Is there anything else you don't understand?
     
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  12. Petaluk

    Petaluk Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Wow you are amazing @Bluetit1802 truly!
    All mongo junmbo to me lol
    Do you do this as a job? Lab technician? Or just super brainy?

    Fatty liver? Oh should I be concerned?
    I am on diet so hopefully that will improve with weight loss?

    Yes I am on atorvastatin 40mg, been on statins for about 10 years, started on the orange ones ( can’t remember the name) then moved onto these white ones.
    I get fizzy hands if I stop taking them.

    The blood count had more info other than white blood cells..
    these are ones with ! At front...

    ! Red blood cell (rbc) count 5.15
    ! Mean corpuscular volume (mcv ) 82
    ! Mean corpusc. Haemoglobin (mch) 26.4
    !red blood cell distribut width 18.1
     
  13. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    Hahaha no I am not a lab technician, and definitely not super brainy! I have done my own research when analysing my own results.

    Fatty liver is very common in T2 diabetics, and goes hand in hand with insulin resistance. and one cause of T2diabetes. Losing weight will help, especially round the middle, seriously reducing carbs, and avoiding fruit and any foods that contain fructose will also help. You really need to improve this if you want to control your blood sugar levels. You should also find that cutting the carbs will improve your HDL (good cholesterol). The more of that you have, the better.

    According to my lab report (labs do differ slightly):
    The rbc should be 3.8 to 5.5
    The mcv should be 76 to 100. If this is low you need to get your ferritin levels checked.
    The MCH should be 27 to 32. This is a calculation of the amount of oxygen carrying haemoglobin in the red blood cells.
    The distribution width should be 10 to 15.7

    Below are the notes I made when I was analysing my own results. They may be of help.


    B12 deficiency/folate deficiency increases MCV. However, iron deficiency decreases the MCV so if you are B12 deficient and iron deficient, this will balance out the MCV so that it will give a normal result.

    If your MCV goes below 87, then you need to make sure your doctor checks Ferritin levels.

    Other health disorders such as diabetes and thyroidism can also elevate the MCV level.

    High MCH levels can indicate macrocytic anemia, which can be caused by insufficient vitamin B12. Insufficient folic acid can be another cause of macrocytic anemia.

    MCH - Mean Corpuscular Haemoglobin – mirrors MCV..if your level is above normal or on the high end, then this is suspicious for B12 deficiency or folate deficiency or both. If it is on the low end, this would indicate a potential iron deficiency.

    RDW - Red cell distribution width – range is 11 to 15 % although this can vary from lab to lab, the test calculates any change in size of the red blood cells. Along with the MCV, the RDW result if high, usually means a B12/folate deficiency.
    However, this is not true if there is an iron deficiency because iron deficiency will also increase the RDW.
     
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  14. Petaluk

    Petaluk Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  15. madusmacus

    madusmacus Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi there Petaluk
    I am in middle of a test and i think the 1st 4-5 days i had some weird stuff going on my please read below

    10 years ago I was given 20mg simvastatin a day because i was fat (preventative measures)
    8 years ago i got type 2 daabetes (strange that...) and was given 1000,g metforming and 4mg candesartan

    Since then i have stoped eating carbs and highly processed anything...
    Got my hba1c down to a regulat 5.7% (todas twitter suggests under 6% isnt that good an idea as im old - weird)

    In this area we can not get doctor appointments unless you suspect you are dieing so...
    I decided to STOP all my meds after reading and being 100% sure they were not of any use to me and make me feel worse
    (I do not suggest anyone does this with out waiting 3 months for a GP apointment to discuse it) Personaly Its my choice
    I do take suppliments like D3, k2, O3 CoQ10(ubiquinol as im old) and Magnesium (had PVC's due to low mag)

    Ok now to the good bit...
    After 6 weeks of cold turkey.. I cant see any difference in any of my daylie mesurements
    Glucose it now always between 5.5 - 7.8 - (yaaa to no carbs)
    Blood pressute is high normal when at rest (128/85)
    LDL HDL TRIG etc is the same as its ever been (OK but HDL always low 0.9 meds or not)
    What does this mean... God knows... but must be better off the meds i guess

    6 more weeks till my GP apointment... wow doent time fly

    Byeeeee :¬)
     
    #15 madusmacus, May 7, 2018 at 12:03 PM
    Last edited: May 7, 2018
  16. Petaluk

    Petaluk Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Aren’t we meant to aim to be under 7 blood glucose ??
     
  17. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    You can set your aims where you want to. There are only recommendations, no rules. My personal target is 4 to 7 at all times, but if I go a little bit over 7 at an hour or 90 minutes I don't worry as long as the 2 hour reading is in the 5s or 6s. But that is MY target.
     
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  18. Alexandra100

    Alexandra100 Prefer not to say · Well-Known Member

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    ALWAYS check out any advice or info. you mean to act on, whether from a member of this Forum, or in a book, or on Youtube, or from your GP or Endocrinologist or dietician or specialist diabetes nurse. I suggest you check out this article by the respected writer Jenny Ruhl: http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/16422495.php In it she gives suggested numbers to aim for in your readings. And then check again! Maybe start a new thread inviting people to suggest target readings.
     
  19. Petaluk

    Petaluk Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi all, sorry for delay...here are my results

    6 May 2018

    4.8 fasting
    6.6 2 hours later ( food)
    4.7
    5.4

    7 May

    5.4 fasting
    5.3 2 hours later ( food)
    5.1

    8 May

    5.0 fasting
    5.4 2 hours later ( food)
    5.3

    9 May

    5.2 fasting
    5.3 2 hours later ( food)
    4.7

    Today 10 May

    Fasting tested straight from shower 7.0! Nearly fell over!!! :O
    So washed hands, as usual and retested 6.6 - better but not great
    Hmmmmm

    My appetite has increased and I think I ate more carbs than usual yesterday
    Also my weight loss has stalled - only lost about a 1 lb in last 4 days even with moderate exercise

    What are your thoughts on this, would love to hear them :)
     
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