Now the X-PERT advice is low carb, high fat

[Pipp]

I would like to know if all of the people who have completed the original X-PERT courses will be recalled, and offered the opportunity to do a revised course with the new guidelines.

I am guessing that won't happen, so we could have, for many years yet, people with diabetes , wondering why their BG is still rising despite following instructions.

 

[dannyw]

I would like to know if all of the people who have completed the original X-PERT courses will be recalled, and offered the opportunity to do a revised course with the new guidelines.

I am guessing that won't happen, so we could have, for many years yet, people with diabetes , wondering why their BG is still rising despite following instructions.

So, a bit like we have now then. People following NHS guidelines and struggling with BG levels. I doubt anyone will be offered a new course. They teach what is relevant at the time. Similarly, the driving test has changed dramatically but anyone with a valid license won't be asked to repeat the test.

 

[dannyw]

Will she change the existing course?
It's an odd position, as she is only a service provider, and the NHS are setting the rules.
They're paying for the course they want taught.

How would your boss react if you told him he was selling the wrong product entirely, and decided to sell your own to his customers?

I guess we'll soon find out. If my boss told me to do something that I really thought was wrong, I'd say so. I doubt she is that desperate for work to not be honest to herself.

 

[dannyw]

I would like to think so to.
But then, she has said she believed the diet she was promoting through the X-pert course was wrong at the conference last year, when she argued very effectively against it.?

This is a very interesting time indeed.

Yes, and there were lots of scientists and learned folk telling us the Earth was flat once too. Times change. Opinions change. At least she has admitted she was wrong. Many spend much of their time arguing pointlessly and looking for minute flaws and pick holes in new advice which clearly works for the majority. Crazy eh ?

 

[AndBreathe]

Whether the X-Pert course changes or not probably depends on the contractual relationship between Dr Deakin and the NHS.

Reading her website and LinkedIn profile, she hasn't been an NHS employee since 2008, when she appears to have founded X-PERT Health. On her site, she talks about her courses being NICE compliant, so I can't really see these courses changing until the NICE guidelines similarly change (and X-PERT Health won whatever tender process the NHS utilises). I understand NICE guidelines are currently out for consultation, but from the draft copy I read, there isn't likely to be a seismic shift any time soon; the proposed guidelines suggesting the promotion of low carb (and please excuse my hyper paraphrasing here), "needs more work".

Hopefully, at some point, Dr Deakin will be commissioned to remodel the education course, but, personally, I wouldn't be holding my breath.

Quite depressing really.

 

[Pipp]

So, a bit like we have now then. People following NHS guidelines and struggling with BG levels. I doubt anyone will be offered a new course. They teach what is relevant at the time. Similarly, the driving test has changed dramatically but anyone with a valid license won't be asked to repeat the test.

I am not sure how the reference to driving test compares here.
I am concerned that there will be X-Pert 'graduates' who will not be receiving info about the changed advice.

 

[AndBreathe]

Very depressing if she continues to sell a product she very clearly believes is actually bad for your health.

I'm pretty certain that the reality will be that Dr Deakin was contracted to deliver a piece of work (the course), and probably a "Train the Trainer" programme, then it will have been handed over to the HCPs who routinely deliver to the likes of us. From that point, the NHS will be licensed to deliver said course, with a license fee being payable to X-PERT Health under certain circumstances (probably per course delivered to delegates).

By now Dr Deakin can say or do anything she pleases, but whilst the course remains compliant, there will be no compulsion for the NHS to require it to be changed. She has effectively sold the course on (OK, she is likely to retain intellectual property rights on it). A licensing arrangement is often an exceptionally profitable business model.

At the point changes are required, it is likely NHS Procurement will require a tender process of some sort, which will add further months to the process, before any real engagement. As I say, I won't be holding my breath.

 

[dannyw]

I am not sure how the reference to driving test compares here.
I am concerned that there will be X-Pert 'graduates' who will not be receiving info about the changed advice.

Simple, the driving test analogy is to show that although someone has received training in something, if that training changes, it doesn't mean you need to retake the course.
As for changed advice, that has been going on for years. You've been on this forum long enough to appreciate the amount of conflicting information currently handed out. A change in the X- pert cause won't change this.

 

[Etty]

Very depressing if she continues to sell a product she very clearly believes is actually bad for your health.

She has changed her mind, (and adopted the LCHF herself), since the debate last April that you keep referring to. So she no longer believes it is actually bad for your health. Good for her. Others would hang on out of pride and embarrassment.

 

[AndBreathe]

I agree.
Change is good, and we shoulld all learn every day
But she now believes the diet she is selling to us is bad for our health
But she continues to sell it.
That's depressing for me.

She sold it whenever she signed the contract. She will be being paid because the course is still being delivered. One could argue she has little control of that. I'm sure she'd love to be be changing things (and earning the contract fee again).

 

[dannyw]

I agree.
Change is good, and we shoulld all learn every day
But she now believes the diet she is selling to us is bad for our health
But she continues to sell it.
That's depressing for me.

So what would you have done ? She made a business selling/teaching something she thought was right. Years later, she realised that the advice she was giving was actually wrong. So, she writes a book on the subject and updates her website to reflect this. Not an easy decision to take, in fact, very brave. What I think would be depressing is if after gaining this new insight, she decided to do nothing about it.

 

[AndBreathe]

I agree again.
The contract fee twice would be good.
But would the NHS agree she's right?

You've lost me now.

 

[donnellysdogs]

These are the basics of joining up to of the x-pert programme for training...

Each organisation must have a licence to deliver any of the programmes. One being for CCG’s (annual cost £xxx) , GP Surgery’s/Small Independents (annual cost £xxx) and Freelance (annual cost £xxx per GP surgery delivered to).
You only need one licence to deliver any of their programmes, so in theory 3 programmes can be delivered under 1 licence.
Year 1 – (current basic details)

· Training each Educator (£xxx – 3.5 day course). Trainees to attend a training course for each programme
· Pack of materials used to deliver each programme (£x,xxx)
· Quality Assurance (£xxx)

Ongoing costs are handbooks (one for each patient/carer) approximately £x each.

Every Educator must attend a 1 day update every 2 year at a cost of £xxx.

------------------------------------------So will the NHS pay out more costs to update the advice on diets before the update courses are due every 2 years?
Doubt it.

Will private persons / freelancers payout additional costs for an update?
Doubt it.

Is anything really going to change in the next 2 years from now?
Doubt it.

 

[Paul59]

Next they will be changing things for a Low Glycemic load diet, which is basically lower carb but includes foods you probably
wouldn't touch on a low card diet, but Low Glycemic load diet is
good to keep blood levels more constant...I control by it & find it
works well & I'm in control of it & not it in control of me because I know what I'm eating is not going to overload/spike me.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I don't know how many times I have to say this on these several threads, but she has already started to train the course Presenters in her new way of thinking. She has recently re-trained my own DN who presents the courses local to me. My DN told me a couple of weeks ago about this new way of thinking. Presumably my DN and the others she is training/re-training will be spouting about the eat fat stuff next time they present a course.

 

[AndBreathe]

So. sell the course.
If you don't like the course, sell the book?

I like her.

Have you bought the book?

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

I don't know how many times I have to say this on these several threads, but she has already started to train the course Presenters in her new way of thinking. She has recently re-trained my own DN who presents the courses local to me. My DN told me a couple of weeks ago about this new way of thinking. Presumably my DN and the others she is training/re-training will be spouting about the eat fat stuff next time they present a course.

Probably until you turn blue.

 

[dannyw]

That is good to hear.
It must mean the nhs is changing their view, and will continue to give her their backing.
It does leave the past course participants in limbo though.

Is she retraining them for the 82% fat she believes is optimum?

She has never said an 82% fat diet is "optimum" for others Douglas. You do have a habit of slanting others quotes. She was quoted as saying "her" diet comprises of 82% fat. Still, why bother with details ? It doesn't help your posts.

 

[donnellysdogs]

What worries me is the costs to the NHS of all the retraining....have they got all this money tonretrain in something that is not their current way if thinking? No, they haven't.

It great to hear of one DN that has been retrained, but there is currently another oosting on this forum that is acive where the poster is quite ckearly stating that she is being taught the 'old' prescribed management style of eating.....

The NHS is broke, so why should they be in a hurry to pay out on a different dietary advice that still hasn't wholly been accepted by NICE..

 

[dannyw]

I don't need the book Douglas, I know LCHF works. I've know for a while. Maybe someone will buy one for you if you're lucky.