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Oh My Word! Feedback Received From My Dn

Debandez

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,031
Location
Lancashire
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Im stunned, shocked, saddened, gutted in fact.

I've just recently joined the PPG at my surgery. In reply to my first email welcoming me I asked for stats (after saying thank you of course).

Here is my email:

I'm wondering if you can help with some information i need for an up and coming event.

I reduced my HbA1c from diabetic level of 62 in December 2017 to 41 (non diabetic and normal) in May 2018. So within 6 months. I did this on a low carb high healthy fat diet. The dr however confirmed I could have done this on a low calorie or low fat diet.

I wondered if you might be able to give me stats for diabetics who have put their blood sugars into non diabetic HbA1c range within 6 months? And also within 12 months (perhaps starting with a higher hba1c).

Thanks for your help.

And this is the reply I received this morning from the practice manager. I have copied the DN reply:


'The only patients who have done this to my knowledge at the surgery is post bariatric surgery'

So it would appear that the diet the Dr is encouraging hasn't worked for ANY of his patients. The DN by the way was my mum's DN for about 10 years and my dear mum passed away 11 years ago.
 
Oh dear ! But ... you have the 'magic bullet' to change the practice's patients' world and the results to prove it ! How to persuade the DN and GP ? Bribery, corruption, torture ..... ?too extreme ? Maybe an affidavit of your results and the diet that helped achieve your success plus some internet links and forums on this site !!
 
Perhaps you could drop Dr. David Unwin's name a bit (a lot) during meetings citing how much money he has saved for his practice in Southport. All we can do is keep spreading the word. There are just so, so many people out there who could benefit from lifestyle choices and when the right information comes from a GP people are more likely imo to listen.
 

Typing at the same time! Great minds think alike!
 
It is sad, the reply you received. Remember that Drs have to contend with people for whom the convenience of a quick ready meal when they get home from work or when they are living alone is just too tempting. Compound that with a lack of understanding that it is not just sugar but all carbs that need to reduced in the diet of t2. People see 'reduced sugar' 'no added sugar' or a green label by sugars and think that the food is OK. The miniscule writing giving the carb breakdown is too small for some to read, gives an amount per 100g and then the mental maths to work out the portion size contained and so the carbs per portion adds time to the shopping task. 'Low fat' and 'low calorie' are much easier to find in the aisles and it seems much quicker to write a prescription for medication than to explain to patients what they need to know about diet and exercise.
You are now in a position to start a campaign of education, using your own experience over the last few months. How the surgery would save money by spending the time on diet education. Is it possible for it to be a focus for local walks of various lengths? A meeting room for parents and children to have a weekly meeting to support all diabetics so those struggling t1 could also get help, tips and support from each other.
 
Im currently working out my next move @Rachox....still reeling to be honest. When my DN saw me in May and gave me the HbA1c results she did say 'nobody has done what you are doing EVER. Not one person has walked through that door and done it' but I thought she was meaning keeping BS records, bringing in books I had read, newspaper cut outs, weight loss stats. I know now that she actually meant putting diabetes into remission!
 

I saw my DN last week and I am the ONLY person on her books who is type 2 and has reduced her blood sugars, or even maintained a level over 5+ years.

I was stunned. However, she has gone from actively hostile to low carbing, to recommending/discussing it. But apparently no-one will listen to her. Apparently its too hard. I have suggested a monthly support group maybe?
 
Wear your crown (or tiara) of achievement with pride !!
 
One reason I have been almost silent about the 'annual' review of my general health - the only one of which I have ever had - as it was just so bad, so sad and so dangerous to the community exposed to it.
 

I have to say I feel as you do also, shock, this is absolutely out of order, incredible information to have been presented, perhaps a wake up call to all those who feel the same, many may not, but overall, it leads a big void and doubt zone, that may result in one feeling the need to speak loud and clear, do not accept such advice, especially without getting a second or third opinion from the same DN, surgery or from Doctor direct, are people accepting information as given without questioning same, is the concern answer.

This is a deplorable situation if I have understood correctly as you explain.
 
You wouldn't expect to take your car in with a (slow) puncture and for the 'garage' to just pump it up and send you on your way saying oh yeah you can carry on driving no need to check the pressure, just stick to the speed limits and we'll see you in 6 months, 6 months later they may stick a plaster on it and say it's gone down again because you weren't sticking to the speed limit were you? A garage like this wouldn't last long..........................
 
Having been where you are at now, some seven years ago, following success with Newcastle diet methodology, I understand your frustration, @Debandez . Not only the Gp, but the Weight management consultant, too, were convinced that the only solution was bariatric surgery for overweight and / or obese patients with T2. The PPG at the surgery were of the opinion that fat people were to blame, and should just do as they were told by doctors, etc., which of course was follow the NHS guidelines. no apparent ability to think outside of the guideline box. It takes a softly, softly, approach to those I come into contact with. keeping it simple as possible. In the first instance I took in the ND journal articles, and persuaded the GP to support me. He did, and has offered that support to other interested patients. I followed this up later with the Dr Unwin papers and convinced him that this was the way forward for patients to have a choice, and it certainly is a less drastic measure than bariatric surgery or ND. I find GPs tend to take notice of the potential cash savings to their business from Low Carbing patients. it can be frustratingly slow to get the message across, the PPG, I find are the most difficult to convince. some are quite self righteous, but I am picking them off slowly but surely. They might be easier to convince if I was not still fat, but most tend to want to please the GP, so with him on board the battle is half won. i know GP thinks differently now, as does the Weight management consultant.

Good luck in your mission, though be prepared for opposition.
 

Ps I forgot to mention, the main question you asked and information required, has as I view and understand been ignored, not acknowledged and/or responded one way or the other? Your question as I see it was a very worthwhile warranted question for your own information based on your excellence of efforts, yes other information, but no mention of Stats?
 
Well the stats as I read it are zero diabetics have gone into remission apart from those who have had bariatric surgery. But I'm meeting with the DN to discuss further.
 

Shocking stats. But not surprising as they aren't offering the pts the choice. 'Would you like to try to reverse this, well this is how' you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink I do know that. But at least tell pts there is an alternative to it being a progressive disease.
 


Here's how I decided to reply:

Hi

Many thanks for this. It is incredibly helpful. It confirms that only patients from the practice who have gone through bariatric surgery have put their diabetes into remission. Quite shocking statistics and a travesty. It appears in all the years I'm the only one to have done it which is absolutely incredible. The current NHS guidelines seem very out of kilter. The 1936 diabetic guidelines would give diabetics more of a chance to control their blood sugars i feel (attached). Cutting down on carbs and not just sugars. At the end of the day carbohydrates turn to sugar. It does involve a change of lifestyle and I appreciate it's not easy for many although I found it incredibly easy to change my way of eating to healthier diabetic choices. 'Give diabetes an inch and it takes a foot' did spur me on.

I would love to share my story with any diabetics who are interested in learning more if the DNs are happy for me to do so.
I have an appointment with my diabetic nurse (Deborah) in November and am looking forward to discussing a way forward then. I would like to help as many fellow diabetics as possible as you can imagine. In the meantime maybe you could forward this email to Deborah and the team.

I have just arranged an event in Birmingham, with the help of Diabetes.co.uk and their PR team. I managed in a very short space of time to get together a room full of diabetics who have also put their diabetes into remission on a low carb diet in a short space of time (I could have got together many many more but the PR team was only available on 1st September so I only had about 5 weeks to sort it all). We were able to share our stories on camera (to be shared on DCUK social media sites as a starting point). We had photos taken, as we are now, and with our 'big pants' on (See attached photo of me to get the idea). We are extremely happy to spread the word. I have put together a booklet of their stories with before and after photos which I'm wondering if the DNs would be interested in seeing (everyone involved is happy with this).

Jo mentioned a diabetic meeting at the local Tesco superstore. Would you be able to give me more details as I would love to pop along?

Thanks for all your help.
 
lucylocket61 said:
I am attending the local U3A meeting tomorrow morning. Its from a professional, and the talk is entitled "living with Diabetes"

I will let you know how it went and if i am able to interject a comment or two.
Click to expand...
Thank you that would be brilliant if you could
 
Hi @Debandez what a truly shocking response! We all know that the advice given at time of diagnosis seems to be the “standard” guideline text. My DN was genuinely pleased and surprised at my results when I went for my first check up, the second appt wasn’t met quite so enthusiastically, but, it was her first appt of the day and she was having major IT issues and was a bit flustered. I am not making excuses for her and in hindsight I wish I had pressed her for more feedback and thoughts on what I had achieved. It may have been complete shock and surprise as a remission is very unique, rare, unheard of...........or maybe she was worried that if all her patients do the same she will be out of a job!
 
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