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Peripheral Neuropathy

Discussion in 'Diabetes Complications' started by Loukay1, Apr 1, 2019.

  1. Winnie53

    Winnie53 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if your neuropathy can be reversed. All I can say is that I'd try everything before giving up. This is the best book I've read to date on reversing neuropathy...

    A Complete Guide To Understanding, Managing & improving Your Peripheral Neuropathy (2018) by Dr. Michael Veselak DC

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1976770580/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    The only way I know to reduce or reverse neurpopathy is to get glucose levels down with diet and to identify and address all nutritional deficiencies which most often are the B vitamins, D3, magnesium, likely omega 3's too. If you regularly eat processed foods, you're likely eating a lot of omega 6 rich seed oils that are damaging and need to be removed from your diet - (corn, canola, cottonseed, soy, saffola, sunflower, peanut). 600 mg Alpha lipoic acid is the MOST helpful when taken with a B-complex. R-alpha lipoic acid is the best form. You need to find the best quality B-complex available in your country. But here's the problem. If you have the methylation problem referred to as MTHFR, you'll need to take B vitamins that are in a pre-activated form.

    I 'm so sorry you're going through this. I can't imagine how much you're suffering. There is a thread that covers much of the above in greater detail. Will try to find and post it tonight after work.
     
  2. Winnie53

    Winnie53 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I used a better search strategy and found the thread that discusses nutrient supplement strategies to reverse neuropathy...

    https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/help-in-dealing-with-neuropathy.74653/

    It's a 10 page thread. In post #3, Omnipod outlines the results of his research on neuropathy.

    In post #33, I quoted the most helpful information that forum members shared up until that point.

    More helpful information likely followed.

    What I didn't know 4 years ago was that 4 out of 10 people have a genetic variation or mutation of the MTHFR gene. Dr. Will Cole wrote an article that speaks specifically to MTHFR and the B vitamins...

    "One of those genes, called the MTHFR gene, can have a mutation that can specifically interfere with your ability to absorb certain vitamins and detox the body efficiently. About 40% of us have this mutation, myself included, and it can predispose you to health issues. Let’s look at what it’s all about, and especially, what you can do about it."

    At the end the end of the article he gives specific recommendation on what forms of B vitamins are best... https://drwillcole.com/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-gene-mutation-that-affects-40-of-the-world/

    Something that has confused me for some time is how is it possible that a 29 year old, recently diagnosed with pre-diabetes, could possibly already have diabetic complications? And why have I had to take a B-complex off and on my entire life to feel my best?

    Answer: The likely cause may be a genetic variation or mutation of the MTHFR gene.

    B vitamins are very important for brain and nerve health and are often depleted by diabetes. If you have both MTHFR and diabetes, we can begin having problems much sooner than others with diabetes.

    It's not the whole answer of course, but it's a place to start.

    There's a facebook support group called TypeOneGrit for type 1 diabetics who use Richard Bernstein's low car diet to manage their glucose levels. For type 2's, the low carb diet forum here and www.dietdoctor.com are good place to begin learning about the low carb diet.

    Some members here, myself included, take 600 mg alpha lipoic acid daily to reduce risk of complications or to reverse complications. Much of the research on reversing diabetic complications has been on using the combination of these two supplements. I've been told that r-alpha lipoic acid works better.

    Taking a good quality, whole food multivitamin with all the B vitamins was not enough for me. I had a high homocysteine level until I added a B-complex recently. In addition, after I get tested to see if I have the MTHFR variation or mutation, I may add the pre-activated forms of some of the B vitamins to my B-complex.

    Hope this helps...
     
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    #22 Winnie53, May 1, 2019 at 10:48 PM
    Last edited: May 2, 2019
  3. Vegman1441

    Vegman1441 Type 2 · Active Member

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    If you mean numb feet and legs mine was caused by Statins, feet became very painfull after taking them for three days it has got steadily worse but it’s not the NHS to blame they don’t want to know about there mistake.
     
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  4. Ray_P

    Ray_P · Newbie

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    I get pain sensation on top foot and toes and intolerant to touch and my go put me on duluxetine not that it appears to benefit
     
  5. TriciaWs

    TriciaWs Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    I had non-diabetic peripheral neuropathy, confirmed with nerve conduction tests. I take pregabalin for fibromyalgia and it has helped with the terrible symptoms from 'restless legs'. Apart from varicose veins in the smaller veins on one ankle there is nothing to see on my feet, but I was getting cuts from walking around barefoot and sometimes not noticing, and finding my legs and my feet were numbed while standing so I would stumble after standing at traffic lights as I tried to step onto the road.
    I was tested for a few things and the only thing they confirmed was a folic acid/B9 deficiency.
    Since the diabetes diagnosis I reluctantly wear slippers.
     
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  6. Tony Judge

    Tony Judge Type 2 · Newbie

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    The email from ‘Loukay1’
    About 6 years ago after I’d been diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetese and got it under control, Diabetic Neuropathy kicked in.
    I had no visible foot or leg damage, sores etc., just some slight fungal infection in my toe nail.
    The pain in my legs and feet was excruciating.
    I was prescribed Lyrica and Tramadol for the pain, but the condition didn’t improve until I was prescribed ‘Alpha Lipoic Acid (600mg per day) [brand name Thiogamma] and a vitamin B12 supplement by a neurologist. Slowly but surely the condition improved and now I have no neuropathy pain and take no pain killing medication.
    I suggest you discuss your neuropathy with your doctor/Diabetese specialist.
    Good luck.
     
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  7. Loukay1

    Loukay1 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I'll mention that to my gp when I go, it's still not improving so I can't put it off any longer, thanks for your advice
     
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  8. Annb

    Annb Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I developed what I now know t be peripheral neuropathy in my right foot about 15 or more years ago. When I asked a GP and, later, a podiatrist what the cause might be, the only answer was a shrug. It wasn't so much painful as annoying - numbness in my toes and a feeling of pins and needles under my toes. About 12 years ago, the left foot developed the same thing. Once again, nobody knew what it could be. It was getting quite annoying by then, but, with no outward signs (never had any more than the odd blister from leather sandals in my teenage years), there was nothing to be done. No point in taking pain killers - it wasn't exactly a pain. Eventually, because of other symptoms which nobody had picked up on either, I asked a locum GP if I had diabetes. Yes, I did, and it seems that I may have had it since my first son was born in 1967. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

    Now I do get the occasional sharp pain in my toes, but not often and, as long as I keep my blood sugar at a reasonable level, the neuropathy has faded, so much so that I often forget it is there although my feet do get very painful by the end of the day - that might not be the same thing.

    After a DEXTA scan (is that right?) I was told that my bone density is not as good as it should be, but I don't yet have osteoporosis. However, I was advised to take B vitamins. I asked my GP about what to take and he dismissed the idea. Apparently I only need a healthy diet, which I do have, except he thinks I should have more carbs.

    Vitamin supplements seem to be advised on this forum, so I'll have to look into that properly myself (I've been a bit lazy on that) but I definitely think that the improved state of my feet is due to the low carbs and resultant reduction in BS levels.
     
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  9. IanD

    IanD Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    In 2,000, at 61 y-o, I went to the Dr with a numb sensation in my right thigh; also a loss of sensation so that I felt my right foot wasn't on the ground. He diagnosed diabetic peripheral neuropathy. There were NO external symptoms; I was fit & well & playing tennis.

    My HbA1c was 11. I immediately gave up sugar & a month later I was formally diagnosed with HbA1c=8. I was given overwhelming advice about EVERYTHING that could happen, including a 25% probability of a heart attack. I was given a high complex carb diet & told that however well I followed the diet, I would get worse as diabetes is progressive.

    They were right! In 2,008 I was crippled with leg & other muscle pains. Dr suggested hospital investigation.

    I joined the forum, but was still thinking the advice I had been given was for the best. I learned otherwise - GIVE UP ALL THE CARBS & GET YOUR ENERGY FROM PROTEIN & FAT. I immediately stopped eating all the obvious carbs. My advice is join the forum low carb programme.

    In just three months I was out of pain & back on the tennis court. Eleven years on I am still fit & well with NO diabetes symptoms, & still playing tennis at club standard - at 80 y-o. Hb1Ac=6.6.

    Must stop as I have to get ready to play this morning.
     
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  10. Mike Solomons

    Mike Solomons Type 2 · Member

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    As an "oldie", (71 last birthday, diagnosed in 1985, believed type 2 from childhood), may I please add - be pleased that it hurts! The next stage is numbness when you have no idea if anything's wrong.

    Many years ago, I woke up one May morning to find that my feet were really cold.

    Cold in May?

    I then realised that my feet had been numb for most of the winter and were only recovering with the warmer temperatures.

    I now use a number of expedients to keep my feet warm all year round, (e.g. at the moment I'm wearing two pairs of socks). My toes have very little feeling and my feet are not much better, but they are and look OK.

    Docs aren't much use, they tend to just tell you to control blood sugars. After that they give up!

    All I can suggest is keep your blood sugars under control, keep legs and feet warm, and keep nagging for help!
     
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  11. Loukay1

    Loukay1 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Wow that's amazing, your definitely a great example of what can be done! I've played around with low carb for months but have failed at every hurdle, my carb addiction is very real! Thank you for your advice, enjoy your tennis
     
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  12. Stephen Lewis

    Stephen Lewis Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I have had ever worsening foot neuropathy for about 8 years beginning with 'deep' itching at night and now having just about all the pain symptoms mentioned earlier. Finally my condition seems to be improving from a wide range of suggestions that I am using. The following are in reverse order of benefit and I will not stop any of them because I do not want any regression.
    1. Ramipril 5 mg 2 times a day. Prescribed for blood pressure because it increases the size of capillaries.
    2. Pregabalin high dose of 150 mg 2 times a day. Only benefit is that it acts on the pain receptors in the brain to ease this symptom. My opinion on drugs for symptoms instead of cures is known in this forum.
    3. About 4 months ago I purchased an electric throw as a way to keep my feet warm as this improves blood flow. I believe the over stimulated nerve pain is a natural warning of an issue that is not damage to the nerves but may cause damage eventually. I use the throw on the bed over the duvet. I turn it on a couple of hours before going to bed. This helps keep the feet warm again to stimulate blood flow.
    4. I walk a lot including gym warm-ups at about 4 m.p.h. After a few minutes it is obvious that there is additional warm blood flow to the lower legs and feet. I know walking can be painful but I find that when the blood starts to flow better, the pain decreases.
    5. On this forum and confirmed by my diabetic clinic is Alpha or R-Alpha Lipoic Acid. I have tried both and find 400 mg 4 times a day is the most beneficial. R-Alpha is better absorbed but is much more expensive and is only available here in 100 mg capsules. The clinic says the maximum dose is 1800 mg per day. I began this high dose only 4 months ago.
    B12 was alos suggested by the clinic but I think this is to counter the negative effects of Metformin on the blood not for neuropathy.
    It certainly feels that finally my condition is slowly improving especially at night and I will keep doing all these things until it disappears or my feet are amputated. Li so much with diabetes we have to find out, often on our own, what works best for each of us. This forum is invaluable to do this.
    Just another comment. I believe the needle test to see if we have any feeling in the feet is either too late or useless. Thenerves in my feet are fine. The slightest thing underfoot even with shoes on such as a slight ridge in the sidewalk (pavement to those outside North America) will cause immediate and very sharp pain. Once I stop feeling this, my condition is either in remission or...
     
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  13. Winnie53

    Winnie53 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  14. Stephen Lewis

    Stephen Lewis Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I am taking B12 and I will look at the research to see if I need to go to multi-B. Thanks Winnie.
     
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  15. GrannyAnnie

    GrannyAnnie Type 2 · Active Member

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    Peripheral Neuropathy is damaged to the nerve endings. You do not have to have any damage of any sort to the outside of your feet to have it. In fact, you don't even have to have diabetes to have it! I have had it for over ten years and have only had diabetes for 6 years! Mine came from damaged nerves in my spine. I had a massive operation on my spine to correct 3 vertebrae that had slipped forward and had destroyed two of my discs and trapped several nerves. The op was supposed to stop the neuropathy and give me relief from the rest of the pain I was suffering. It did help with the other pain but the nerves were too badly damaged to stop the neuropathy. I take pregabalin for the nerve pain, but I still get terrible pins and needles. What I hate most is, when I go to see medics of any kind, they always say ' I see you have diabetic neuropathy', and I say to them, through gritted teeth, ' no, I have neuropathy caused by damaged spinal nerves. I have always kept tight control of my diabetes'. The usual, very annoying reply I get is, ' but your diabetes will have added to it'!!!! It seems that no matter how well you control your diabetes, they will blame every illness you ever get (even a cold!) on your diabetes!! AARRGGHHH! But I have found that taking magnesium with calcium has helped with the pins and needles. My vitamin D and B levels are fine.
     
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  16. Actaeon70

    Actaeon70 Type 2 · Active Member

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    I now have peripheral neuropathy but never had ulcers or other foot problems. I was told by one GP that my options were amitriptyline, gabapentin or pregabalin. When I saw my regular GP, she refused to prescribe either of the last two, saying they would increase my BG levels, and gave me amitriptyline. (I wasn't happy with this as I have unpleasant mental associations with it.) Not sure if that's true, as yet another GP told me he'd never heard that claim (plus she was pretty useless in other areas too.) Originally on 10mg, which did nothing, but now on 20mg which is sometimes effective, sometimes not.
     
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  17. Stephen Lewis

    Stephen Lewis Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    The issue with all these drugs is that they do not do anything to improve DPN. They work on the brain to shut down pain receptors. Pregabalin is also used in the treatment of seizures. Reading GrannyAnnie's comments, it seems that she does not have, (and never had?) DPN but PN with a different cause. I have some symptoms of something nerve based in my very low back/hip area and think this may be related to DPN and the pancreas. I remember as a child that trapping nerves and/or blood vessels in the back of the leg and lumbar area on high, hard seats would cause severe pins and needles in my feet until I changed my sitting position. I did request information from a diabetic forum in Canada on any research into the possibility that diabetes is actually a neurological disorder. I also questioned that drug companies new this but providing an effective cure would affect their profits. I never did get an answer and then discovered that even with many well trained diabetes specialists the site seems to be financed by providers of blood testing equipment and drug companies. There may be no connection nevertheless I have recently decided to stop getting emails from that site. If anyone knows of research that proves why the pancreas stops working (apart from age, obesity etc.) I would be very interested to read it. Unfortunately this will not help those T1s where the cause seems more due to the endocrine/immune system.
     
  18. Rachel Crossley

    Rachel Crossley · Newbie

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    Thanks for this,
    I have had excruciatingly painful feet for over 4 years now (especially at night - burning, crushing feeling, sharp shooting pains) and finally went to my GP with it 4 months ago, when you guessed it, I was diagnosed with DiabetesT2??? I am 51 and cannot tell you how shocked I was. I have no other symptoms. I am not over weight but a low carb diet was advised (less than 130g per day which I stuck to) but it did not lower my glucose levels much or improve the foot pain. I now take insulin x 4 per day and Amytriptaline, a nerve stimulation inhibitor for my foot pain. The tablets do help me sleep at night now but the pain has not gone. I eat a healthy diet but will try Vit B12 supplements and speak to my Dr specifically about this and request a blood test for vitamin deficiency.
    My concern is, how long have I been unknowingly diabetic, for it to have caused neuropathic nerve damage in my feet? What other unknown damage might it have caused which is yet to surface?
     
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  19. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    This doesn’t sound too dissimilar to my experience. Flirting around the edges of low carbohydrate eating, my neuropathy got progressively worse as the feeling returned to my feet. I vaped raw cannabis herb to help with the pain, which was extremely effective, but the real fix (for me) was adopting a paleo/keto lifestyle. Now all symptoms are completely reversed, and my feet feel amazing.

    That’s just my experience. I really hope you find peace from your neuropathy. I know only too well how depressing and debilitating the pain can be. Best wishes.
     
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  20. Winnie53

    Winnie53 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Fot greatest effectiveness, taking 600 mg alpha lipoic acid (ALA) a day with a good quality B-complex works best in combination with well controlled glucose levels to reverse neuropathy.

    You can start the ALA now, but delay taking a B-complex or B12 until your B12 level is checked. If your B12 level is low, that is important for you to know going forward.

    Hoping this works for you.
     
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