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Pesky dawn phenomenon

Hi Cold Ethyl! I gave up all milk when I went LCHF 3 weeks ago so I now have my coffee unadulterated and black. I'm just not sure about the caffeine effects though. Logically I would have thought they'd push up BG levels, but I think I once read the opposite so I'll see for myself.

I can't see any sign of early evening light exercise in the thread but lots of other types. Perhaps you could try that next Brunneria? Or perhaps I should....
 
Brunneria said:
Well, it might shrivel up and disappear completely... so be careful!
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Funnily enough I'm off on my hols late July for 4 weeks, and never have a hot shower there, always cold to cool down from the constant humidity / 35-40•c heat so will be worth a comparison, Brazil nut at 5:00 this morning was yuck btw :(


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Sun - what carbs were they? And did you balance it with lots of protein and fat?

X


Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

Diagnosed prediabetic Easter 2014. Just left to get on with it, no guidance or help from GP. Every day I'm learning something new.
 
Brunneria said:
Right.
Just done 25 kettle bell swings. It's 10.25 at night.
Am gasping like a winded horse.
All major muscle groups whinging.
I hate you all. :dead:

The only plus point for the whole exercise is that the dog was sleepy enough not to investigate and get brained!

Right, so maybe I'm not as unfit as I thought. Breathing back to normal (ish).

Doesn't mean that I don't hate you, though.
:shifty:
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Any change to DP Brunnaria?
Has the dog survived the week, or has there been an unforeseen kettle bell incident?:wacky:
 
Indy51 said:
Someone mentioned using Olive Leaf Extract to me to help with DP. Early days yet, but will be interested to see if it works. Found this article about it on Green Med Info: http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/olive-leaf-nature’s-answer-diabetes-treatment
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That info looks really promising, Indy.

I am all for lowering insulin resistence!

But I do wonder about the advisibility of increasing insulin production. It's all very well for individuals who can grow more beta cells, but some people can't, and for them, it would be just flogging their poor cells into an earlier grave. :sorry:

I wish I knew which sort of person I am - because it would make a difference to my handling of my drug, genetics, diet and weight induced insulin resistence!
 
Bebo321 said:
Any change to DP Brunnaria?
Has the dog survived the week, or has there been an unforeseen kettle bell incident?:wacky:
Click to expand...

I've only done it once! I seem to have even more exercise resistance than insulin resistance!

I'm actually quite impressed at how effectively my unconscious is sabotaging the late night exercise. Maybe I will threaten it with a shot of cider vinegar instead (have bought some already), unless it toes the start line... That should beat it into submission.
 
Brunneria said:
That info looks really promising, Indy.

I am all for lowering insulin resistence!

But I do wonder about the advisibility of increasing insulin production. It's all very well for individuals who can grow more beta cells, but some people can't, and for them, it would be just flogging their poor cells into an earlier grave. :sorry:

I wish I knew which sort of person I am - because it would make a difference to my handling of my drug, genetics, diet and weight induced insulin resistence!
Click to expand...

Brunneria said:
That info looks really promising, Indy.

I'm with you there Brunnaria.
I didn't appreciate that it was possible for anyone to regenerate beta cells though - I shall have to do more reading around that.
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Brunneria said:
I've only done it once! I seem to have even more exercise resistance than insulin resistance!

I'm actually quite impressed at how effectively my unconscious is sabotaging the late night exercise. Maybe I will threaten it with a shot of cider vinegar instead (have bought some already), unless it toes the start line... That should beat it into submission.
Click to expand...

I must admit, I would have the same issue with exercise in the evening - seems the wrong thing to do to get all worked up before bedtime.
Maybe a late afternoon walk (all in the interests of science)
Good luck with the vinegar - you may actually find it is more effective in combination with a bit of exercise. (Okay - I will stop banging on about it now!) x
 

I found the info on beta cell regen in the book diabetes 101, I think. It may also be on the 101 website.

I vaguely remember her mentioning that, for some type 2s, this may be the difference between them and non diabetics. In other words, take two people eating lots of carbs and flogging their beta cells to death... One regenerates beta cells and carrys on as normal - the other doesn't regen the beta cells, and every time they carb-stuff, they wear out more cells, and slip further into diabetes.

I think she gives a critical BG level (can't remember it) at which the poor wee things start to keel over.

Sorry to be so vague with the details, but it's too early in the morning for anything else!
 
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Apologies if this is a stupid question but we all seem concerned about our morning level, me included always higher. But then we speak of the liver dump. Are we unduly concerned, what happens to those who wake in the morning who are not diabetic?
I do wonder.
 
non diabetics also have the liver dump as we do...............but their pancreas responds with the secretion of more insulin........

something the diabetic cannot perform........:(
 
Johnroy said:
Apologies if this is a stupid question but we all seem concerned about our morning level, me included always higher. But then we speak of the liver dump. Are we unduly concerned, what happens to those who wake in the morning who are not diabetic?
I do wonder.
Click to expand...
I don't think anybody's too worried about what happens to non-diabetics because they have a working hormonal system that will counterbalance the effect - it's only an issue for diabetics because we don't have that to sort us out. I think it happens to some degree in everybody.
 
OK. I'm a type 2 not on any meds. My going to bed and morning fasting levels are flat. Both have come down in the past few weeks, but even before they did they were flat. So what is happening with me? Am I not getting a liver dump or is my pancreas dealing with it? I used to think my liver dump happened later in the morning and lasted until lunch time, making my pre-lunch levels higher than they should be, but now I have learned that by getting up a bit earlier and eating breakfast earlier this has improved due to there being a longer gap between breakfast and lunch. Logical really.
 
Its likely your pancreas is dealing with the extra glucose from the liver..........

The DP should start to kick in before your body thinks you will get up, so using the body clock.......

If you don't refuel by starting the digestion process then the liver will still think you need assistance.........so that's why getting something to eat as quick as possible is good to stop rising morning levels...
 
Bluetit1802 said:
OK. I'm a type 2 not on any meds. My going to bed and morning fasting levels are flat. Both have come down in the past few weeks, but even before they did they were flat. So what is happening with me? Am I not getting a liver dump or is my pancreas dealing with it? I used to think my liver dump happened later in the morning and lasted until lunch time, making my pre-lunch levels higher than they should be, but now I have learned that by getting up a bit earlier and eating breakfast earlier this has improved due to there being a longer gap between breakfast and lunch. Logical really.
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I'm a bit unclear about when dawn phen liver dumps start.
My attempts to wake up in the middle of the night repeatedly woke the poor long suffering Mr B, but I slept on regardless of the alarm. :shy: So I gave up. Might try again, when are both on hol.

So I've never mapped it, myself.

I've read that BG drops gently overnight, hits around 4, then liver dumps kicks in at whatever time that happens... But is that dawn phen, or just the body switching to fasting mode, which it would do at any time of day?

Maybe your before/after sleep BGs are a sign of healthy dawn phen - just enough to get you going, but not so much you end up with raised BG. Especially now you've sorted your more extreme morning rises.

The main reason I started this whole Experiment, was because I felt my dawn phen was impacting on my HbA1c. If that's not happening, then (I'm jealous) and think you may have it sorted!
 
the DP is just the effects observed in diabetics from the hormonal response that kicks in to top up our dwindling energy reserves after a long period of fasting......

I worked out, for me personally, that the DP started 1.5-2 hours before I woke up. Monday to Friday that's 6:30am........so 4:30-5:00am my BG started to rise.........I imagine these times would change for each individual......
 
That would make sense for me given that my lowest fastings have been when I've had a lie-in at the weekend. But it's not a consistent pattern, maybe sometimes my liver dumps if I'm just in bed dozing, thinking 'where's my breakfast then'?
 
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