Please help!! Waitrose refuse to stock 'LivLife Low Carb Bread'

I emailed Livlife asking them if there is any chance of a LESS seeded version
(as one of the seeds reminds me of eating a small bug)
They said new products are being developed but no time scale

They need to make a more conventional version for it to sell better I think :¬)

graj0 said:

That's an interesting observation and I have noted something similar. Beaconsfield for example is a very wealthy area, only has a Waitrose, if my memory serves me well. It does have an M&S food place. So, maybe obesity can be associated to wealth or rather lack of it. Amongst all the other factors that affect weight.

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Perhaps wealth is something to do with it? However, Dawn French is wealthy and only lost her extra lb's because of a health scare.

I spend more time people and trolley watching in supermarkets than money!! I know I angered people with this particular posting. I live in an area of mixed incomes with every supermarket possible. As in quite a few towns Waitrose and Lidl are on the same site. I shop at both and unfortunately always when there are queues, which does then start my attention to looking at the contents of the trolleys and weight of people.

Advertising is also a huge part of success for companies such as McDonalds. I watched a programme the other night about kids and MDonalds. They asked kids which carrot tasted better... One from a plain wrapper or one from a Mcdonalds wrapper and the kids said mcdonalds!!! The carrots were plain supermarket carrots!!! My neighbours kids have to collect all the mcdonalds toys... So its not really suprising that the western world is unhealthier really.

Another poster previously mentioned the types of food from food banks and how it wasn't possible to go low carb relying upon their food.

Until the population can reduce the processed foods livlife breads will be the minority and unfortunatelythis isn't going to happen in my lifetime especially with the NHS recommending carbs with every meal.




Loving life

Brunneria said:

You seem to have misinterpreted my comment, because your two posts don't relate to what I wrote.
Perhaps you should have another look at what I did write.

You will notice that I clearly spoke about my personal experience with bread, and passed no judgement on people that do.

I also stated two simple, common sense facts.

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Yes it was your personal experience with bread but you also said .. The thing I don't get is why so many people act as if bread is necessary. It isn't
.I don't think many people would act as if bread is necessary presumably they eat it because they like it

AnnieC said:

.I don't think many people would act as if bread is necessary presumably they eat it because they like it

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That is a very good point, how boring would it be if we only ate and drank what was "necessary" for us?

I think generally that most people try to make healthy choices wherever possible but it has to be said that those who believe that a lchf diet is the best healthy option are in a very small minority, despite how loudly they speak and how frequently they post the same messages.

I believe that as diabetics we need to adopt a lifestyle that we can sustain for the rest of our lives not a quick fix highly restrictive diet that is hard to stick with that we fail at at every turn. If you think that a lchf diet is the best way and you can stick with it for the rest of your life then thats great but why do so many post that they have fallen off the wagon?

Im just asking is all.

Sid Bonkers said:

I believe that as diabetics we need to adopt a lifestyle that we can sustain for the rest of our lives not a quick fix highly restrictive diet that is hard to stick with that we fail at at every turn. If you think that a lchf diet is the best way and you can stick with it for the rest of your life then thats great but why do so many post that they have fallen off the wagon?

Im just asking is all.

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I agree. I have found the lchf diet to be very easy, enjoyable and sustainable. For me, it's for life.

AnnieC said:

Yes it was your personal experience with bread but you also said .. The thing I don't get is why so many people act as if bread is necessary. It isn't
.I don't think many people would act as if bread is necessary presumably they eat it because they like it

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I wouldn't worry Annie. There are plenty of people who seem to think they know what is best for everybody but in reality they only know what is best for themselves. There are a lot of food stuffs that are unnecessary but that does not stop people deciding that they like them.

This labelling of "bad" and "good" foods often ends up with people feeling guilty when they eat them and telling themselves off which is counter productive as it stresses them out which in turn can cause an upset digestive system and that makes them feel even worse. They are then mentally and physically upset. They end up sabotaging their new way of eating because they feel so worthless.

Thank you @catherinecherub , nice to see we are in agreement.

We all speak from personal experience, and that was what I was doing in my post above. Pity it was misinterpreted. But then that goes with the territory, on forums.

Sid Bonkers said:

That is a very good point, how boring would it be if we only ate and drank what was "necessary" for us?

I think generally that most people try to make healthy choices wherever possible but it has to be said that those who believe that a lchf diet is the best healthy option are in a very small minority, despite how loudly they speak and how frequently they post the same messages.

I believe that as diabetics we need to adopt a lifestyle that we can sustain for the rest of our lives not a quick fix highly restrictive diet that is hard to stick with that we fail at at every turn. If you think that a lchf diet is the best way and you can stick with it for the rest of your life then thats great but why do so many post that they have fallen off the wagon?

Im just asking is all.

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I'm not sure that I have ever claimed that eating low carb is easy for me. I enjoy a lot of the foods I eat tremendously, but there are a lot of times that I would love to sink my gnashers into bread and other carbs. They taste nice. And if my BG dips too low it is an act of self discipline not to fall head first into the nearest lovely tea cake or sandwich. However, a few years of occupying my body, and a couple of years using a blood glucose monitor have very clearly demonstrated that my body cannot tolerate all those lovely carbs.

I do fall of the wagon occasionally. One of the reasons that carbs don't work for me is that they set off a spiralling series of BG fluctuations and food cravings - think of an addiction like alcoholism. Except that a recovering alcoholic does not have to drink small amounts of alcohol in nearly every meal. So they don't have to constantly monitor the level at which 'a little' becomes 'a little too much' - and the carb cravings emerge.

Of course, I'm not expecting you to understand this, or sympathise. We all have different physical reactions to carbs and if you don't experience what I have just described, then you probably reject the idea. I'm used to that. If I had a penny for every high carb eating person who has lectured me on how I need to grow some self discipline... Nowadays I just laugh.

Luckily, I am naturally try to look for the positives. I'm actually quite pleased for people who can eat carbs. I know that I would much rather be able to eat what I want (in moderation) but everybody's body chemistry is different. If they can eat carbs and have stable BG levels then that is a very good thing.

I must say that it is marvellous being part of a community on this forum where low carbing is openly and enthusiastically discussed. Advice is swapped, people are helped. Newbies are encouraged. If I can help someone to avoid the mistakes I made, then that is a good thing.

For years, low carbing was vilified in the media, treated with contempt as a fad diet, and to admit you didn't eat bread, pasta and potatoes was like admitting you sold your firstborn into slavery. Thankfully times have changed, the studies are piling up, and media attitudes are shifting.

I read this forum a while back a few years ago (3 years? Can't give a firm date) and left very quickly. Back in those days the low carbers were squelched regularly and quite unpleasantly. Some of the pro-carb posts were absurd. Thank goodness times have changed and there is now room on this forum for low carbers to have a voice, exchange ideas, advice and recipes.

More and more people are getting themselves BG monitors. Which means that each person can work out for themselves what eating pattern works for them personally. I think that the increase in low carb posters is a very positive sign - they can test, see if it works for them, stick with it if it does, or move on to try something else, if it doesn't. And of course, by doing that, the number of low carbers is growing, as more and more people find it works for them.

As with everything, the pendulum will swing from one side to another, for a while, before finding its natural balance. Not a bad thing.

noblehead said:

Supermarkets will only stock items that will sell, as bread is a perishable goods it has a limited shelf life and unless it is purchased on a Sale or Return contract the unsold bread is a loss to the company's profits, understand the sentiments concerned by the OP but that is how business works.

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Supermarkets also use loss leaders ie products are sold at a loss to encourage customers as an incentive to enter the store. The easiest example is to sell beer cheap during summer football tournaments knowing that while a customer saves money on their beer they are more inclined to buy other products ( often at the same prices as they normally pay). Thus the store steals sales from the competition.
Sainsbury's could sell low-carb bread but this would save to be part of a sustained healthy living message as advertising to diabetics only could be seen as a slight on the existing customers.
As many advertising people say "customers are stupid with low attention spans"



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Sid Bonkers said:

I believe that as diabetics we need to adopt a lifestyle that we can sustain for the rest of our lives not a quick fix highly restrictive diet that is hard to stick with that we fail at at every turn. If you think that a lchf diet is the best way and you can stick with it for the rest of your life then thats great but why do so many post that they have fallen off the wagon?

Im just asking is all.

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After five years I don't have a problem sticking with low carb, is it any worse than other diabetes diets for people falling off the wagon? For me I was far more inclined to fall of the wagon when I was on the low fat diet "healthy" diet.

Satiation is the key to being successful with low carb, it cuts out the need for grazing between meals, skimping on fat could make it harder though.

StormyDog said:

Supermarkets also use loss leaders ie products are sold at a loss to encourage customers as an incentive to enter the store. The easiest example is to sell beer cheap during summer football tournaments knowing that while a customer saves money on their beer they are more inclined to buy other products ( often at the same prices as they normally pay). Thus the store steals sales from the competition.
Sainsbury's could sell low-carb bread but this would save to be part of a sustained healthy living message as advertising to diabetics only could be seen as a slight on the existing customers.
As many advertising people say "customers are stupid with low attention spans"

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Yes I know how loss leaders work in stores Stormdog

The stores in question not selling the Livlife bread is Waitrose not Sainsbury's, I believe Sainsbury's sell the Hi-Lo bread. TBH I don't think using Livlife bread would attract many people to their stores, as said earlier not many people have heard of it as it's been marketed badly, besides opinions are mixed as to whether it tastes nice or offers value for money.

this is too difficult said:

They only sell in the UK which only goes as far north as Sunderland apparently.

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Sunderland is in the south

Signy

Just need to respond to ElyDave. Please don't have a go at people with allergies!! People with nut allergies can have it so badly that they don't have to eat them to have a life threatening reaction! I cannot go on aeroplanes at all because of my severe allergies. If someone ate nuts & then came onto an aeroplane it could be enough to send me into Anaphylaxis!!

ElyDave said:

At least WR are thinking about it, let me dig out my customer service response from BA, when I pointed out the lack of diabetic friendly foods in their lounges.

Not even a pack of nuts (in case there are allergy sufferers apparently, who can't recognise the word NUT in front of their face)

They suggested I might like to eat toast

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Please don't have a go at allergy sufferers. Many people with nut allergies don't have to eat them to have life threatening reactions.
I couldn't sit in an airport lounge because if someone did eat nuts in there it could kill me- or at least I would have to use my epipen & go to hospital in an ambulance!!
I can't fly at all because the airlines have no jurisdiction to stop people taking nuts on a flight. Also if someone ate them & then came on the plane that also could send me into Anaphylaxis!!
I now have Diabetes following years of taking steroids.
Give me a break please!!!

AnnieC said:

Yes it was your personal experience with bread but you also said .. The thing I don't get is why so many people act as if bread is necessary. It isn't
.I don't think many people would act as if bread is necessary presumably they eat it because they like it

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Just to chime in...
It's been my experience on the forum that quite a few people seem to think it is necessary. Possibly this is due to the "scoff more carbs " messages given by some HCP's, and also some are newcomers trying to change a way of eating that has been theirs for many years. Bread is seen as a "staple" food, and though it's not the bread itself (taste etc) it's how to change it's function of basis for meals. What to do for packed lunches and breakfast for example, if they have always had sandwiches, or toast.

Sure, if you can tolerate it without having a huge BG spike , then there's no reason why diabetics shouldn't eat bread if they enjoy it. But many people just can't imagine a life without it, and believe it is a necessity . After all, phrases such as bread being "The staff of life", "Daily bread " or "Bread" as slang for "money" reinforces that belief for many people.

Just sayin'


Signy

noblehead said:

Yes I know how loss leaders work in stores Stormdog

The stores in question not selling the Livlife bread is Waitrose not Sainsbury's, I believe Sainsbury's sell the Hi-Lo bread. TBH I don't think using Livlife bread would attract many people to their stores, as said earlier not many people have heard of it as it's been marketed badly, besides opinions are mixed as to whether it tastes nice or offers value for money.

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Sorry didn't mean to patronise. I'm use to a football sites full of kids.

We don't have a Waitrose that I visit but I can see why they might struggle to sell just one product. Perhaps the range idea might be better. If they can get a section of low carb stuff (like the glutton free section in my local Sainsbury's) then they could be on to something.

My local Sainsbury's don't sell Hi-low bread. Or ts least the staff have no idea what it was.
While I was wandering around Sainsbury's I looked at the carb contents of the fancy seeded bread as well as basic whites and at the per 100g level there was little to choose between them.



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@Sunny
How on earth do you manage? You must be terrified of going out in public. One whiff of a Snickers bar... I shudder to think!

@StormyDog
I didn't feel patronised. I'd heard of loss leaders, but never had a proper explanation before. Thanks.

@Heathenlass
Had forgotten the whole 'staff of life' thing. It's embedded to Biblical levels, isn't it? I had forgotten that.

just ordered 2 loafs from amazon @ £2.45 each

Sid Bonkers said:

That is a very good point, how boring would it be if we only ate and drank what was "necessary" for us?

I think generally that most people try to make healthy choices wherever possible but it has to be said that those who believe that a lchf diet is the best healthy option are in a very small minority, despite how loudly they speak and how frequently they post the same messages.

I believe that as diabetics we need to adopt a lifestyle that we can sustain for the rest of our lives not a quick fix highly restrictive diet that is hard to stick with that we fail at at every turn. If you think that a lchf diet is the best way and you can stick with it for the rest of your life then thats great but why do so many post that they have fallen off the wagon?

Im just asking is all.

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Yes I do agree if LCHFcan be sustained for life well good for those that do it but we are talking about a diet that has only been done by people here for a very few years .Lifetime can be a hell of a long time depending on the age diagnosed to stick to such a restricted diet and no one knows yet if they will be able to do it for life

AnnieC said:

Yes I do agree if LCHFcan be sustained for life well good for those that do it but we are talking about a diet that has only been done by people here for a very few years .Lifetime can be a hell of a long time depending on the age diagnosed to stick to such a restricted diet and no one knows yet if they will be able to do it for life

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I've said it before and I'll say it again...the human race has survived for hundreds of thousands of years on a largely LCHF way of eating. The eatwell plate is a very modern invention.

A diet is only restricted if you think it is. I don't find the LCHF diet restrictive at all. Each to their own I guess, but I will not stop promoting the diet which has benefitted me greatly and telling newbies what has worked for me if they ask. I am eternally grateful to the forum members who showed me this way of eating as an alternative to the eat well plate.