Police and hypo and dvla

[sgtchilco]

hello,

I fully agree with the issue regarding test strips.

When my GP asked me to use less I reminded him of the consequences of poor control and the fact that you can many hundreds of test strips for the price of an overnight stay in hospital.

Its a senseless economy.

 

[donnellysdogs]

Dsn that i saw today is going to specify to the gp's that they up my blood strips to 250 per month.

It was a fight last year with the gp to go from 2-5 strips per day, which is why I asked the dsn today, and she was good.

At the end of the day it is my fault I went hypo. I can't blame the gp's or consultants or anybody else, and there isn't any point to it, I just have to accept what is going to happen. I have been quite aware of carb counting through the exchange system I was first taught, I haven't ever had problems managing my diabetes through my injections or altering doses etc.

When I saw the dsn today and showed her all my results she said that she could not tell me to alter anything, as I alter correctly, I eat correctly and I check correctly, other than I checked my bloood before driving and 1 hour later I didn't check it before driving back. She has given me her email address so I can carry on emailing her my results on a weekly basis to keep me happy, and I am going to see her on a fortnightly basis. Shame the care level is only kicking in after this incident, but perhaps I should have been more forthright and insisting they look at my records previously, but I can't go back and I can't blame anybody else, it was my fault and I just have to accept it.

I have asked to actually see a dvla doctor to discuss my levels and show my records, but doubt very much if that will occur. I have been told I should get a response to my question within 3 days, this is day 2.

Thanks especially to Simon and Tracey for giving their experiences, knowing real life experiences has helped enormously, as has Ken in keeping me positive.

I will lose my job if they revoke my licence, so I have that to look forward to if they do, but I will just have to see what they do to me, and not pre judge the outcome (Ken's advice)!!!!

Many thanks for everybodys encouragement.....
Sharon

 

[donnellysdogs]

Well today I got a letter from DVLA, and was absolutely dreading opening however, it wasn't what I was expecting......................

The letter said to make an appointment to see a certain named GP at my practice and to take all my blood test results with me, and that I have 21 days from the date of letter (took 5 days to get here) to let them know the date of the appointment. If I don't let them know my licence will be revoked immeidately, and if I don't attend the appt it will be revoked.

Only trouble is, the GP surgery says they don't do dvla reports like that, and GP's don't see the person befor writing the report. (was told this by Senior Practioner GP last week, and then by the receptionist today).

I stipulated to the receptionist telling me this, that the DVLA have written that I must be seen by this GP and I must take my recordings for him to see, and if they failed to do what the DVLA requested then they were breaking the law.

She then said she would see the supervisor who would send me a letter with an appointment time in the post.

Somehow, I am doubting that I will get an appointment from the surgery to see the GP before the report is written, but I guess that I will face that if it happens. The positive thing is that the DVLA have not revoked my licence immediately, and that they want me to be seen by my GP and for him to see my results.

 

[cugila]

Keep your chin up Sharon........"it 'ain't over till the Fat Lady sings".......
Apologies to any Fat Ladies BTW !! :wink: :shock:

Ken

 

[Lucie75]

Sounds like you're having more trouble with your gp than you are with the dvla! Is it worth going to your gps in person rather than dealing over the phone. Not so easy to fob you off in person. Speak to higher authority there and take the dvla letter with you. There's a chance you might get somewhere.

 

[sgtchilco]

Hi Sharon,

dont forget you are within your rights to change your GP. Is that an option?

 

[donnellysdogs]

This happened today.....have xxxx peopl'e names......copy of email that I have just sent to dvla

Dear DVLA and xxxxx (DSN)

Just to inform you what has happened today with my GP.

Whilst I was out today, I had a phone message left from a lady called xxxxxx from xxxxxsurgery who said the Dr xxxxxx had received the letter from DVLA today and that there was no need for me to have a special appointment as he could complete the form without seeing me except for my eyes which would take 2 minutes when I see him for my routine appointment on Friday 13th August 2010.

I phoned up the surgery and asked to speak to XXXXX, and initially got told she was on 1/2 day and could I phone back tomorrow. I said no, and I wanted to speak to the practice manager. After holding on for 8 minutes the receptionist said that XXXXX was available and would speak to me.

XXXXX said that she had double checked the form with Dr XXXXX (despite it being addressed to Dr XXXXX) and that it was not necessary for me to book to have an examination, and again that the 2 minute eye check could be done, or if I had an opticians prescription, the information could be taken off the opticians form.

I told xxxxx that this was NOT what the DVLA had written to me, and that they had requested that Dr xxxxx examine me and that I took my blood test records with me. Again, she started to argue with me saying that is not what the DVLA wanted and that they completed all the forms without seeing the patients. I stated to her that if I was not seen by a GP as requested by the DVLA then I would go to my solicitor and I would be contacting the PCT Chief Executive to lodge a formal complaint, and if I lost my livelihood because they had not examined me properly as requested then I would sue them for loss of earnings and additional stress that they are causing to a person that has suffered from depression for the past 7 years and they are contributing towards more. She then said that they weren't denying me an appointment, but they only needed to check my eyes and this could be done on my routine appointment.
I stated that Dr xxxxx was being paid by the DVLA to examine me and to look at my blood readings. She again said this was unusual, I said to her that the DVLA were requesting this probably because the GP's at the practice had never, ever looked at my daily readings, and that I had never been asked about my diabetes since I joined the practice 2.5 years ago. She said that was unusual because I should be having a yearly check up with them, I told her that I had only ever had 1 appointment with a diabetic nurse, as they had never called me in except for that one occasion. I also stated again, that the only reason I felt it was necessary to go the hospital when I had been under GP care for 20 years was because the GP's here would only allow me 2 bloodstrips a day, and they only increased because the GP's were told to by the hospital consultant. I said to xxxxx that this was the likely reason why the DVLA have stipulated to me that I was to be examined by Dr xxxxx and he was to review my blood readings properly.

She said that she would book an appointment for August 20th, but that she would have to inform Dr xxxxx, so I am now expecting a phone call from Dr Wiley to tell me that the appointment xxxx has booked will be cancelled, or for Dr xxxxx to be horrible to me when I see him for my routine appointment next week.

Last week I had hell from the Senior Practitioner at the surgery when I asked her for a GP to look at my daily blood tests prior sending in a report on me. She said that she didn't care what my daily readings were and that from my HbA1C she could knew that my readings were somewhere between 2 and 20 on my daily records. She also noted in big capital letters on my computer information, that I had been told that ANY GP could fill in the report and that I did not need to be seen.

I have spoken to a lovely gentleman at the DVLA this afternoon, who has said that they will send out a personal letter to Dr xxxxx detailing what they require from him.

I cannot take all this additional stress that this is causing me. The GP's appear to want to take money form the DVLA without examining me properly. I am left absolutely bawling my eyes out, upset and very, very low.
I do not think I am going to be treated fairly by the GP's now, I should not have to be put in a position where I am having to threaten them with solicitors and reporting them to the PCT.

Thank you to the DVLA for listening to me this afternoon and sending out a 2nd letter to the GP practice, but I really am not expecting to be treated fairly at all by the GP's, as so far they have just completely ignored the letter that I have shown them, offered them and told them about i.e. reviewing my daily blood test results. They have stipulated and written on my notes that I do not need to be examined, and this was by the senior practitioner, so I hold out no hope at all that they will adopt any decency about them when they examine me.

I just want to confirm in writing these details to you so that if they cancel my appointment, or do not conduct a proper examination of me, so that you are aware of the conduct that this practice has towards examining people for DVLA medical queries.

Many thanks
Sharon xxxxx

 

[donnellysdogs]

As you can see from the update above, I agree that the DVLA are treating me better than my own GP's.

Where we live there are only 2 surgerys, and we are only allowed to go the one in our village, despite it being the same GP's that belong to the one in town. Both practices have the same GP's, but our village practice has a different GP everyday, as they rotate who has to go there, so you can never get any GP to see you on a regular basis. They are the only practice within 10 miles.

I just cannot see that they will examine me either fairly or properly.

I saw one GP this week, who said that I needed to see just him and no other GP. I said to him that it was so very hard to get appointments with him. He said that what I would have to do is beat the system by finding out waht day he was there and go to the surgery at 8.30 and get an emergency appointment to see him, because he is fully booked for the next 5 weeks, and that was the only way I could beat the system, and it was up to me, I either accepted that or nothing.

This GP (diabetic GP) despite knowing in big red capital letters on the screen that I was not to be seen for DVLA appointment and that I am in trouble did not even ask about my diabetes at all. He asked why I had had my priority raised with the rheumatologist from routine to urgent, and I said that the hospital had told the surgery to do it because I am in so much pain. He then just concentrated on my pain and totally ignored my diabetes, and again didn't even look at my daily record books.

So to see this GP again I have to go to the surgery and try to get an emergency appointment. I have tried this before, and unless you actually get there at 08.15 in the morning there are at least 6 people waiting, and only 3 emergency appointment slots, so I am not even guaranteed to see him even then, other than that he has given me patches to try for pain which un out in 3.5 weeks and can't get an appointment to see him for 5 weeks. He said that he was the best GP and worked hardest (exactly what he said-my husband was witness to him saying it) and that no toehr GP's would see things through like he does.

And now this actual GP is the one stating that they do not need to see me for DVLA examination!!!!

 

[Lucie75]

It is a sad state of affairs. Perhaps, considering the circumstances, the dvla might let you see an independent gp, of their choice? Is there such a thing?

 

[hismom]

hi,
as far as I am aware it is your right to see whichever gp you want to . We can at our surgury but it does take time as the best gp's there are always busy. I would be insistant and go for the emergency appointment. If you dont get one you can sit and wait. We have been told that if you need to see a doctor that day they cant turn you away. It difficult because you worry that if you make yourself too forceful they may take it against you but I do think this may be the only way you can get anything done. You should have been given as many test strips as you need. you do not choose to use them ,you need to use them. Our gp has sorted it so we just ring up and order the repeat presrciptions as often as we need (I dont know if this is because my son is only 14 though)and the only thing that isnt on there are the dextrose tablets . Try to be forceful as it is your health and your future you are talking about, if you could have had more test strips maybe you could have tested after your walk.

steph

 

[sugar2]

I just wondered if your GP was worried that you were going tp sue them for being negliable, wrt to your driving incidenr? It is almost impossible for a type 1 diabetic to have good control with only 2 strips a day, using the modern insulins!

 

[tigger]

I'm very sorry to hear of your experience and really hope it gets sorted out soon and the stress is removed.

I would really recommend that you try and change GP. I used to go to a surgery which:

1. Created 2 patient entries for me and recorded different things on them
2. Deleted one of those entries when I pointed out it could lead to negligence including all my prescriptions
3. Put my prescriptions back with minimum levels instead of my normal ones
4. Refused to change them for about 3 months when I was pregnant and needed to keep tight control.
It was only when they started overprescribing antibiotics to my son that I finally decided enough was enough.

I moved my whole family to another practice which has been excellent in every respect. My diabetes has always been treated through consultants so I have no conflict in that respect but for everything else e.g. arranging prescriptions, blood tests and general all round care they are excellent, caring and a joy to deal with. As I'm sure you know it makes such a difference. We were actually just outside the catchment area of this surgery but they still accepted us.

When this period is over, I suggest you take local recommendations on which are the good GPs and try and move. Just try walking in and registering. If they refuse because you live too far away then I suggest you write a letter to the PCT with the request for the change and outlining exactly why you are unhappy with your current GP. One way to do it might be to outline the situation as follows:

I attended practice x between x and y date.
They were responsible for x y z including my diabetes.
They refused to provide me with more than 2 strips despite the fact that I informed them that I am type 1, drove regularly and depend on driving for my livelihood. I self-referred to hospital care as a result of this and the strips were increased from 60 per month to 150 month. This was still less than the 200 on demand which I know is given in other surgeries (I get that btw).
As a result of the rationing of strips I had a car accident as a result of a hypo and (hopefully the sentence will end here)
As a result of the accident the DVLA considered removing my licence. They asked my GP to do xyz. Instead they did abc. Their failure to comply with the DVLA's procedures increased the stress and led to an exacerbation of my depression. In addition, in order to find out why I had this hypo I asked the GP to assist me with xyz. They ignored this and said the only information required was abc.

I have lost all confidence in the care provided by my GP practice. In addition, I am very worried that their continued rationing of my medication will lead to another and more serious accident resulting in hospitalisation for me or other drivers. Accordingly I would like to change GP practices to x. Under the policies instituted by yourselves it appears I am unable to do this on distance grounds.

Kindly confirm to x practice that this will be permissible in my case and I look forward to receiving your confirmation within 21 days.

If I do not receive this confirmation within this time period I will have no option other than to take legal advice against both yourselves and my GP practice in relation to the damage caused by this accident and my loss of health and livelihood as a result.

For the sake of good order, I reserve the right to show this correspondence and the letters sent to my current GP practice, attached hereto, to the relevant court or tribunal.

 

[donnellysdogs]

Wow Tigger, thank you so very much. I will definitely use the notes you have written. Thank you so much for taking the time out to do this. I appreciate it very much.

After last weeks trouble with GP's, I contacted the DVLA and my DSN by email telling them exactly what had happened. THe DSN took all the information to the Stand In Chief Consultant at the hospital. He is happy enough to do a full medical examination and to look at all my daily BG's and to write a letter of support to accompany the medical report. I had to get hold of DVLA and to ask them to refer me to the Stand In Chief Consultant. The DSN has been fantastic, and has reviewed all my BG's I have sent her on email, and is very happy with everything concerning them.

The DVLA said they would refer my emails and telephone calls back to the medical team to review and would get back to me in 2-3 days by telephone. Today was day 4 and they hadn't phoned me, so I phoned them. They are sending out a letter to the Stand In Consultant, and I do not have to go to the GP Surgery. I am so relieved with this. As soon as the DSN gets the letter she will book me into to see the Consultant immediately!!!

I have a routine appointment with GP this week regarding managing pain, and if he mentions anything to do with the DVLA, (he was the one that said he didn't need to see me to write a report) then I shall say 'my appointment is 10 minutes, and I do not want to discuss the DVLA with you during the time when you are meant to be seeing me for my pain management'. I will then tell the receptionist afterwards that I do not need the appointment for the medical examination with the 2nd GP for the following Friday. I shall also put it in writing to them, although until I hear back from the DVLA I will not state anything as to my reasons why.

After I have had the report done, and the DVLA confirm what is going to happen to my licence then I will contact the PCT and tell them exactly what has happened, and I will also find out how I can change to get to a different GP.

Tigger, the time and thought you have given to me is so brilliant. Thank you very much. I apprecitate very much the help that everybody has given me......thank you

 

[theacatsmother]

Hello Sharon,

I'm type 2, but need insulin to control my BG levels when I take a particular medication for another health problem. My licence is restricted to 3 years as a result. Though I've not had a hypo when driving, it has come close on a couple of occasions. You've done the right thing in being frank with the DVLA and I hope your outcome is a happy one. These things can drag on for ages, but try to keep your chin up. Perhaps some relaxation techniques might help you keep the lid on when things get on top of you. And I was amazed at the way "Lorna" went at you. Low blood sugar is the sort of thing that can happen without us realising till the symptoms hit us. If she's not had problems she should count herself lucky.

One good thing though, the police didn't immediately arrest you for "Driving under the influence of a drug" which, to my amazement, my DSN told me includes insulin. In the hope you keep your licence, you'll be sure to have a generous snack before you take the dogs for walkies. BTW, I smiled at the way you described having to drive to the walk as you can't walk to the walk and then walk the walk and walk home from the walk. Pure delight!

I'm sorry to hear how unhelpful you consultant and GP were. I'm involved in the local DUK branch which has its monthly meetings in the diabetes centre at the local hospital, so I see the consultants nurses and dieticians to chat with in the corridor. Remember that though the consultant's the expert on diabetes he doesn't work for the Drivers Medical Section at the DVLA. He may have heard things but.... And you're having such stress from your GPs practice. I'm lucky, I have a really good practice and GP who's been so helpful over the years. And what nonsense about restricting your test strips. There was a test case in recent years when a group of diabetic patients in North West England took their PCT to court under the DDA (Disability Discrimination Act) for restricting the amount of test strips they could have. Their case was that the PCT was discriminating against them by putting on a restriction. The patients won. The case made the BBC news, but I can't remember when it was. I've tried searching on the bbc news website, but so far I've gone through 15 pages of diabetes articles... I'll have another go.

Keep going, and write on the forum to ease the stress.

Thea


Thinking of you,

Thea Cats Mother

 

[donnellysdogs]

Thank you Thea Cats Mother for your words of wisdom, again greatly appreciated.

Since the incident with DVLA the DSN at hospital has been brilliant with me, allowing me to email her my daily blood readings once a week (just as I used to when I needed to with my old GP).
She has also got a different consultant than the head honcho to do my examination and write a letter for me whilst head honcho is on holiday.......we are just waiting for the DVLA to send them the medical report for him to complete. He has then said he will do the examination as a priority, and will fit me in immediately. So this is a totally different reaction than the head honcho gave me.

Meanwhile the DSN is suggesting I consider having a pump, as my levels raise so much in the mornings and then go lower in the afternoons and previously she suggested giving correction doses of fast acting in the morning without food......and I do not like the idea of this at all, and told her. So now they are telling me they have had 13 people since Dec put on to pumps and everybody is really good with them, but the idea scares the pants off me......

The DVLA did ring me today, and they are going to ring the DR surgery to cancel my appointment for me, which I am very grateful to the DVLA for.

I have an appointment with the horrible GP this afternoon about getting something sorted for my pain in hips and top legs, and if he starts talking about the DVLA, I will tell him that I am here to discuss my pain, and not the DVLA, as he should never have been involved as the letters were addressed to a different GP, not him.

I do value everybody's comments to me very much, advice and experiences of such things are good. Lorna's comments did really upset me, opinions aren't always helpful, but it did make me realise what other people think of me....

I did have do my blood and ate a large chunk of bara brith (no injection) before driving to my walk and to this day I honestly do not know what happened to go low, except I was definitely wrong getting back in to car after the hour walk to drive 1/2 mile home without doing the blood test before I drove. Steep learning curve, and I now keep a blood test kit in the car to do before I drive every time, I would never drive even 10 yards without testing myself first now.

Thank you for your help and advice. I think this is the best site for learning from each others experiences....

 

[ljwilson]

I am sorry if my comments upset you, this was only my opinion and judging by the rest of the thread you have lots of support.

Lorna

 

[tigger]

Hi Lorna,

I actually agreed with your comment about making it harder to get a license and the wretched dvla makes it hard enough to do this already - 5 months of form filling for the last one I got!!!!!

However, donnelly'sdog is obviously taking a very responsible attitude to learning from this episode and frankly being diabetic doesn't mean you have to be absolutely perfect in every way. It's a right pain to live with and obviously problematic with driving but how many "normal" people do you think there are who have driven while on drugs, alcohol or holding a mobile phone? And how many of those are repeat offenders? It's unfortunate that the dvla have an easier thing to get a handle on with us than the rest of the driving world but that's life I'm afraid. Everyone makes mistakes and it's what you learn from them that's important.

Like my husband who left the fridge ajar for the 4th time this year this morning and reacted badly when I informed him that if he wanted to kill me it would be simpler to push me under the next train rather than going to the effort to destabilise all my insulin. Any tips for getting him to learn to close a fridge door properly?

 

[donnellysdogs]

Hi Tigger

Get him a child lock to stop him opening it in the first place.....my husband couldn't open ours when we put the child lock on it, don't know whether that was a man thing or just my husband!!! Child lock didn't last long....I then resorted to putting a big message on the front of the door.....'KICK THE DOOR SHUT'-all our visitors thought us mad, but they also used to kick it shut, which was good as sometimes they would leave it slightly ajar too. 2 years on he does remember now to shut it properly. Message is still on door though!! I need to get a new one, but have only just got him used to shutting this one, so am loathe to change it.

I actually did have a psychotic boyfriend once who did threaten to give me an overdose to kill me whilst I was asleep......thank god I got rid of him....and met my fantastic supportive husband.....

 

[iHs]

Sharon

I wish you the very best of luck with all this. Hopefully your hospital will now do the report that the DVLA want instead of your GP which will be better really as they understand the up and down effect that insulin has on keeping bg levels all ok and will be looking at how you now balance your food with the insulin so that your bg levels stay more at a stable level. All the DVLA want now is confirmation that your bg levels are at a better level and then all should be well (fingers crossed :wink: ).

Regarding getting a pump - go 4 it with a big YES PLEASE and grab it with both hands. It will make you feel much better in the long run. Please don't think that they are complicated to use. Loads of people are now getting pumps. You can use them just for their standard settings if you want. Lots of people do and no it's not difficult. If you can use a mobile phone, then you'll be able to use a pump. By getting a pump, you will also be seen every 3 months initially by a consultant, then every 6 months, so you won't be discharged back to the care of your GP. I like my pump, that's for sure.

 

[theacatsmother]

Hi again, Sharon,

Don't be afraid of a pump, I know people who have them and swear by them. Check out the entries on this site about pumps, might give you more re-assurance. It'll certainly give you lots of info. It might also help if you ask your DSN to show you the curves about the duration of action for the insulin she's suggesting. Some insulins are really short term acting and there could be a big difference between what you've been taking and what she's recommending.

Sorry to say I've still not found the article about the patients who sued their PCT over test strips. But I'll have another go for you. If anyone at your GP surgery gets snotty about strips, mention this case to them and that if the practice even so much as suggests restricting your allocation they are directly and deliberately putting your life at risk. That and a thinly veiled suggestion you might sue them should give them a fright and set them straight. After all, how can you tell how much insulin to take if you don't know your BG level? Actually I'm getting the impression that no one there knows more than the very basics about diabetes.

Hope you're keeping better,

Thea