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Pre Type 2 (possibly Type 2) - need some advice pls

Discussion in 'Newly Diagnosed' started by RJH2345, Jan 24, 2020.

  1. RJH2345

    RJH2345 · Member

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    Hi all,

    My fasting levels were 5.8 about 6 months ago and doc told me to exercise and I might be pre type 2.

    Fast forward 4 months and my blood sugar 2 hours after taking that glucose drink was 13.5 so doc recommended I go on Metformin at night slow release. HBA1c was 6.5.

    I’m reluctant to go on meds and would like to make WHATEVER changes I need to make (LCHF/Vegan/No Sugars etc) to try and beat this naturally without meds. My wife is a doctor (and ofc thinks meds are the way to go) but the long term usage of metformin concerns me per the YouTube videos (Dr Fung vs Dr Neil Barnard etc) - there is so much information out there its so confusing what the best way is to manage this..I’m 185cm / 90kg so my questions are..

    1. Where can I find literature on the long term use of metformin? Any users who have been on this for years w/o side effects? Taking a pill to fix this seems a bit too good to be true and the long term resistance issues concerns me.
    2. Dr Barnard recommends reduced Fat / Vegan whilst Dr Fung recommends low carb / intermittent fasting/Keto and consume healthy fats??. Which is the most effective for controlling type 2?
    3. Do I need to loose weight? Doc says to loose weight and I used to body build (used to eat 7 times a day lol...) but I read that increased muscle mass can improve type 2 b/c more muscle means increased consumption of the excess blood sugar in my system - which is correct? I really don’t want to loose my mass but willing to shed weight if I need to.
    4. Where can I find a list of foods that are safe to eat for type 2? One site says grapes are fine another says no grapes...its all a bit confusing.
    5. Can I take whey protein powders while being type 2? Some say stay away from dairy b/c it causes antibodies that attack cells in pancreas - is there truth to this? So moving to a vegan (plant) protein shake / low carbs should be better?

    Really worried about this stuff - came out of no where following a routine checkup - advice appreciated, thank you all.

    RJ
     
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  2. xfieldok

    xfieldok Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    T2 is basically a metabolic disorder and we have an intolerance to carbohydrates. Most of us learn to control our condition by following low carb high fat.

    As far as fruit is concerned, grapes and bananas are the worst for T2. We have a few berries with either Greek yogurt or double cream.

    Best advice is to get a meter so you can test the effect that food has on you.
     
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  3. RJH2345

    RJH2345 · Member

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    Hi Thanks - what do you mean by “control our condition” - does that mean maintaining a safe blood sugar level and never (ever) eating sweets?

    Also, why the “high fats”? To put the body into a keto state?
     
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  4. JoKalsbeek

    JoKalsbeek Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    1. Where can I find literature on the long term use of metformin? Any users who have been on this for years w/o side effects? Taking a pill to fix this seems a bit too good to be true and the long term resistance issues concerns me.

    I couldn't take it, due to the side effects. (Was basically locked in the bathroom). But you have to know, metformin does NOT fix prediabetes or diabetes. It doesn't do much of anything about what you ingest. In the morning, and in stressful situations, your liver dumps stored glucose to give you a little energy, either to start the day or to facilitate a fight-or-flight response. The metformin'll cut down the dump with about 75%. So if you eat a cake, the metformin won't do anything about that.

    2. Dr Barnard recommends reduced Fat / Vegan whilst Dr Fung recommends low carb / intermittent fasting/Keto and consume healthy fats??. Which is the most effective for controlling type 2?

    I was a full fledged diabetic with complications when diagnosed. (I just kept thinking it was due to my wonky thyroid and rickets, so didn't get it investigated). Once diagnosed and miserable on the medication, I switched to LCHF, which Fung advocates, and in no time at all I was off the metformin, gliclazide AND statins. I've been in the non-diabetic range for over 3 years now. And lost quite a bit of weight. After a while I went from LCHF to keto, which is to say, a ketogenic diet, with intermittent fasting. I eat one or two meals a day. More often two now, to keep my vitamin d up to par. (If I put fatty fish on the table in the evening, my husband will go on strike, he hates fish. So I'll have it for brunch) I find it no punishment to eat bacon and eggs, salmon omelettes, above ground veggies, other meats, fish and poultry... And of course, extra dark chocolate. ;)

    3. Do I need to loose weight? Doc says to loose weight and I used to body build (used to eat 7 times a day lol...) but I read that increased muscle mass can improve type 2 b/c more muscle means increased consumption of the excess blood sugar in my system - which is correct? I really don’t want to loose my mass but willing to shed weight if I need to.

    Weight loss is only an issue if you're getting rid of fat, especially in the abdominal area. Visceral fat will make you more insulin resistant. Weight coming from muscles is fine, you won't have to lose that at all. 10% of diabetics never was overweight to begin with, but if you took an ultrasound of their livers and pancreas, it'd more often than not show a layer of fat build-up there. Can't see it on the outside, but it's there alright. With a LCHF diet that would go away though. (I had rather severe non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, now I don't anymore.)

    4. Where can I find a list of foods that are safe to eat for type 2? One site says grapes are fine another says no grapes...its all a bit confusing.

    I've written a quick-start-guide, but before I try to "sell" you on LCHF/Keto/IF: Get a meter. Test before a meal and 2 hours after the first bite. If you go up more than 2.0 mmol/l, there were more carbs in the meal (or the drinks) than you could handle. Carbs, after all, turn to glucose once ingested, so they're to be avoided. A meter won't endorse one diet over another, won't try to sell you anything, won't push some dogma or whatever. It just tells you how your body responds, and you can act accordingly. That said, you wanted a list? https://josekalsbeek.blogspot.com/2019/11/the-nutritional-thingy.html should help. As would dietdoctor.com and this forum's website, diabetes.co.uk (Not the .org one, they're a bit behind the times.)

    5. Can I take whey protein powders while being type 2? Some say stay away from dairy b/c it causes antibodies that attack cells in pancreas - is there truth to this? So moving to a vegan (plant) protein shake / low carbs should be better?

    Your pancreas is making a LOT of insulin. You're just insensitive to it. Once antibodies attack the pancreas it'd be T1, not prediabetes/T2. I've never heard of whey protein powders causing type one, but then I don't move in those circles, being a T2. So I'll just wait for someone to call me out on it. :) What i do know is that a lot of powders have a considerable amount of carbs. And if you put them in a shake, depending on what else you put in there, they are liquid and will hit your system fast, causing a considerable spike in a hurry. So if you can find a low carb one, wonderful. And don't throw stuff in like banana's and juices and whatnot. That's pure sugar right there.

    Hope that helped a little. But you're going to be fine.
    Jo
    PS: Don't listen to your better half, they're wrong in thise case... And if you can show as much by improving your health via lifestyle, many, many patients may be helped as well. :)
     
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  5. xfieldok

    xfieldok Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    The high fat keeps us feeling full, and is where most of the flavour is.

    Personally, I follow keto less than 20g carbs per day. It has been a godsend for me.

    If you are pre diabetic you probably just need to cut back on the carbs. And there is nothing wrong with a couple of squares of 85% dark chocolate.
     
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  6. JoKalsbeek

    JoKalsbeek Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    High fats because you need nutrients. If you go both low carb and low fat, you're likely to become deficient in vitamins and minerals, and no-one wants you to get scurvy. ;) Also, if you go low carb and low fat, you're going to be so insanely hungry all the time, you won't be a very nice person to be around. ;)
     
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  7. JoKalsbeek

    JoKalsbeek Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    PS: The ketones you want to come from burning visceral fat, not fat you eat. ;)
     
  8. xfieldok

    xfieldok Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Can I suggest you get The Diabetes Code by Jason Fung, and when you have finished reading it, give it to your wife to read.
     
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  9. RJH2345

    RJH2345 · Member

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    @JoKalsbeek - thanks for the detailed reply.

    Bought myself a glucose meter this afternoon and will start monitoring after meals and report back - thanks so much all :)
     
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  10. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Don’t forget before meals too. You need to see the change, as well as the overall result, to know what that meal did to you.
     
  11. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    Dr Atkins was right back in the middle of the last century - and Mr Banting was on the right lines a hundred years earlier.
    We'd all be in a better state now if the concept of low carb had been accepted rather than ridiculed and jeered at.
     
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  12. VashtiB

    VashtiB Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hello and welcome @RJH2345

    @JoKalsbeek has said it all so much more eloquently than I could.

    I also recommend getting a meter- as has been said the meter will just provide you with information about what your body can and can not tolerate.

    When I was first diagnosed my husband thought the advice from the GP was correct and I pretty much thought that if that were true that my life was pretty much over. I experimented with my meter on the 'healthy' meal and my blood sugar levels went way high- and I was very very upset. Having found this site I said to my husband that I wanted to try LCHF- well the results spoke for themselves and he is now fully on board with LCHF and can see from my lower HbA1c that it works.

    Try it and see what your body tells you.

    Good luck and welcome.
     
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  13. Lotties

    Lotties Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    @RJH2345
    Just adding my twopenneth.
    It was only when I got a meter (just a whim as curious of effects from a low carb diet) that I realised I was intolerant to carbs.
    This was a complete shock...
    I tried fasting 5:2 - ravenously hungry and getting cravings for **** foods i didnt normally eat, then moved to OMAD then to OMAD, with 20g of low carb green veg (cooked gently in fat) and moderate (60g) protein (10%C20%P70%F) which turned out to be ~800kC. Wonder of wonder I wasn't hungry. I only did this for 3 weeks and then, keeping protein the same and carbs up to 40g, I doubled or tripled my calories for 6 weeks without weight gain.
    Even 1oz of starchy or sweet veg was a no no popping my 2hr post-prandial blood sugars over 8mmol/L and a tablespoon of baked beans and a small hash brown over 12mmol/L. They often took 4 hours to return.
    My issues are most likely caused by a combination of fatty liver (NASH according to my consultant) and prednisolone.
    I have spent Jan eatIng a carnivore diet with 3 days a week fasting and my blood glucose has been nicely between 4.5 & 6.0 on freestylrle Libre corrected against fingerprick with only a couple of higher excursions. The Jan diet was to reduce any damage of blood glucose and increase resting of insulin production.
    I will, most likely return to OMAD VLCHF next month.
    Research for your particular reason for deranged blood sugars (n=1) can help personalise any diet and/or drug treatment you choose.
    There is no one size fits all. You wI'll find sucess stories on HCLF, and various versions of HFLC but my body finds LCHF the most effortless way of 'dieting' ever. I do avoid processed food and can eat when I like (not so often :) )
     
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  14. RJH2345

    RJH2345 · Member

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    Thanks for all the responses - just coming to terms with the fact my 7-8 bananas a day (over 9 years) may have accelerated the issue under my misguided belief that I was being healthy cause they were fruits and fruits are good yea?...lol.......real eye opener the past few weeks have been.

    Tested myself today was 5.7 before meal and 6.5 2hrs after - meal was boiled chicken and spinach - little bit of BBQ sauce to add some flavour but noticed sauce had 2.1g sugar per serve.

    Will test again tonight.
     
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  15. JoKalsbeek

    JoKalsbeek Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Good result after the chicken/spinach. I'd like to see more fats in your meal though. (Maybe add cheese to the spinach, or cream?). Otherwise that won't fill you up for long, you'll be peckish again in no time. The BBQ sauce? For me, I go so low with my meals, usually, I can permit myself a bit of relatively sugary sauces. (More often than not I put some proper mayo in there to make it last a bit more. ;) ) Choices, choices... :) But you're well on your way!
     
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  16. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes indeed. You are not alone there, my friend. You took the red pill, and no mistake. What's really going to bake your noodle later is the question; "why did I have to find this all out on my own?" Consider yourself enlightened! :wideyed:

    In any case, welcome along. And don't worry about it - we'll have you fixed up in no time. When the dust settles, it's really not that big of a deal. Some of us now regard it as the best thing that ever happened to us. Empowered to take control of our own health instead of naively walking the path of slow decline prescribed to us by the anointed.
     
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    #16 Jim Lahey, Jan 26, 2020 at 7:39 AM
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2020
  17. RJH2345

    RJH2345 · Member

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    Is there any truths to meats being bad for Type 2’s? supposedly adds fat to the liver per some vegan ppl?
     
  18. JoKalsbeek

    JoKalsbeek Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Fructose adds fat to the liver, because it identifies it as poison. Meat (red or white) is perfectly fine. As is fish and poultry. Putting it plainly: I had non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. I changed my diet to include a lot more meat, fish and poultry and now it's gone. Liver function is back to normal. Otherwise right now I'd be jaundiced and probably dead, if it were true. ;)
     
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  19. RJH2345

    RJH2345 · Member

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    Thanks Jo, I had an apple today with some natural greek yoghurt - just wanted a bit of a treat as I haven’t had anything “sweet” for about 3 weeks - reading before the treat was 5.6 reading after was 7.4 @30mins and [email protected] so I got a bit worried...
     
  20. Gardengnome

    Gardengnome Don't have diabetes · Well-Known Member

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