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Prediabetes levels

Discussion in 'Prediabetes' started by MarilynFriend, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. MarilynFriend

    MarilynFriend · Newbie

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    Can someone please tell me what the save level range for prediabetes? I have looked on line but can’t seam to get the same answer twice.

    Also, I have looked up how many grams of sugar you are allowed a day and what I have discovered is 22 grams a day. This is very low as a banana has roughly 10 grams on its own. I am very confused.

    Can someone help me please?
     
  2. JoKalsbeek

    JoKalsbeek Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Hi!

    A safe level range for prediabetes? I don't suppose there quite is one, but you could try to get your levels down to the normal range. I think that's kind of what you mean though? (Normal range is under 42, off the top of my head).

    What you're describing with 22 gramd of carbs is probably a ketogenic diet (Or, really, keto is 20 grams or under, if you want to be 100% sure you get into ketosis). Okay, sorry, never mind all the jargon. If you're prediabetic that means you have trouble processing carbs, which you have already found out with your research. Carbs turn to bloodsugar. And yes, banana's contain a lot of carbs. So do bread, rice, pasta, cereals, fruits, corn.... All stuff that you need to reduce or scrap alltogether if you want to get your bloodsugars under control without medication.

    https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blog-entry/the-nutritional-thingy.2330/ is my own little quick-start guide with a lot of information on what you can eat, and why. Personally, I'm about to have breakfast/lunch (it's just past 1 pm here), with two eggs, two chunks of salmon, pepper, salt and dill. maybe some mayo or lemon juice. That's practically no carbs whatsoever. This evening I'll have meat, cauliflower rice, bacon, cheese and whatever herbs/spices I feel like tossing in. I probably won't go anywhere near above 10 grams of carbs today, but I'll have rather large, filling meals that won't spike my bloodsugars at all. So it can be done, it just requires a little getting used to.

    Hope this helps. :) (Feel free to ask more questions)
    Jo
     
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  3. Lazybones

    Lazybones Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Firstly welcome to the diabetes forum. I'll try my best at answering your questions as best I can from memory, but I dare say some others will be along with the more detailed answers.

    Firstly to qualify for and pass the enterance exam, you should be in good general health and not on any medications that interfere with the normal processe's of digestion (ie Thyroid hormonal problems, Steroids or specitic body organ failures)

    Assumingthat this is not present in the individual then a blood test can reveal their blood/glucose level and what is the most important test (the HbA1c - which gives an indication of the individual's blood/gloocose AVERAGE level over the previos 12 weeks. Sometime from these tests, if the readings obtained proove to be so great that there is no DOUBTING that they have diabetes, but it is more common to wait a few days and re-do the same test so that a better picture and subsequent diagnosis can be diagnosed.

    In the past if the HbA1c test results reached or exceeded 7.0mmol/L (I think it's 46 in the new system of measurment (If I'm wrong someone will correct me) and this had to be acheived on the two recent test samples.

    Pre-Diabetis is considered as being somewher between the NORMAL NON-DiABETIC level (Again I moght be wrong but I think it was 5.8 mmol/L and the UPPER THRESHOLD level to being diagnosed as diabetic at 7.0 mmol/L (~The upper threshold may have been lowered recently to 6.8 mmol/l)

    Obviously if someone hasn't crossed the threshold, then thay have every chance by a change in diet, lifestyle and through appropriate exercise in reversing this upward trend and many (If not Most) can successfully avoid becomig diabetic as the ultimate reward.

    The Low Carb High Fat Diet (LCHF) is of particular benifit to us Type 2 diabetics and many go even further in following what is an extreemly low carbohydrate diet (sugar) by following the KETO diet.

    Bananna's are a tropical fruit which though extreemly rich in Potassium is also high in natural sugars, as are many of the Tropical fruits, and we diabetic tend to restrict such foods or find alternatives such as Apples.

    The best thing to do if you don't already have one is to obtain a simple blood/glucose meter and to measuure your blood/glucose both befor and 2 hours after eating a meal. A popular blood/glucose meter being the Codefree where the test strips are somewhat cheaper. You should aim to keep any increase in the level to no greater than 2.0 mmol/l and over time you will learn what works best for you and what food items to avoid.

    Hopefully Daisy will be along with the standard information that is sent to all new members on this site. It's an awful lot to take in and at time might seem an uphill struggle to understand all these strange terms, words and concepts, Take your time and if you have any further questions then please ask - we're all on this site to help one another and even the longest diabetic member with a wealth of knowledge was at on point in time a newbie.

    Best Regards - Lazybones
     
    #3 Lazybones, Aug 12, 2019 at 12:38 PM
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
  4. Antje77

    Antje77 LADA · Moderator
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    Daisy has retired after years of relentlessly greeting new members and posting her informative and useful piece, so it's up to all members to post a link to it where appropriate :)
    So here it is:
    http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/basic-information-for-newly-diagnosed-diabetics.26870/
    It's also found in the signature of all mods and as a sticky thread in 'Greetings and introductions'.

    Have a good read of it, @MarilynFriend , and keep posting your questions.
     
  5. ianf0ster

    ianf0ster Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi,
    You seem to be a little confused , which is perfectly normal at first.
    This Forum is one of the few places where you can get real information backed by real personal experience from fellow diabetes and pre-diabetes sufferers who are not trying to sell you something. So congratulations for finding us.

    To directly answer your questions:
    1. The only 'safe' Blood Glucose range for pre-diabetes' is the normal range i.e . an HBA1c of under 42.
    1.A. Pre-diabetes is still diabetes, but not bad enough for a doctor to prescribe medication yet. Most GPs trained more than 5 years ago would confidently wager their car (but perhaps not their house) that your pre-diabetes will progress into full diabetes.
    So 'pre-diabetes' is still diabetes!

    2. Levels, different countries use different measuring systems and occasionally set/re-set) different levels. The current generally accepted upper level Hba1c for the normal range is 42 - but many in here aim for under 40.

    3. You are probably getting confused between Sugars and Carbs. Their is a distinction between the two for normal healthy people. But for almost all Type 2 diabetics a carb is exactly the same as a sugar - all that changes is the time taken for it to be converted into Sugar in the bloodstream (Blood Glucose).
    So forget, until proven different for you (with a BG meter), all this talk about Good/Healthy carbs and the distinction between Low GI and High GI foods. We are all different in our tolerance of Carbs, but all Type 2 diabetics have a certain degree of intolerance to carbs - they are (mostly) like a poison to us.

    Having said all that we are all different, so some type 2 diabetics may be able to eat a banana (or half a banana) with something high in fat like double cream and still not suffer a spike in Blood Glucose - but unfortunately those are very few indeed.

    So to put it in the starkest terms:
    1. Government health guidelines - such as 'healthy carbs' and '5 a day' at the very least make some people very ill (perhaps even cause amputation, blindness and death).
    2. Conventional medical treatment for type 2 diabetes actually makes the condition worse!
    3. You can't trust most dieticians, doctors and other 'Healthcare Professionals' - even those who specialise in diabetes!
    4. You must be sceptical and yet open minded. If a BG meter backs up what somebody says - then it may well be true - if it doesn't -well then it is more likely to be false, at least for you!

    On a personal note, I have found a Low Carb High Fat lifestyle has been beneficial for me both in terms of controlling my BG and also in terms of losing weight without going hungry!
     
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  6. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
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    Ian, I have to say my view differs to yours in many points you make, so I will make my response alongside your own, but in a green font.

    1. The only 'safe' Blood Glucose range for pre-diabetes' is the normal range i.e . an HBA1c of under 42.
    My belief is that "safe" blood glucose ranges are very personal. We encounter people joining here whose blood glucose numbers are relatively modest, yet at diagnosis, have pre-existing complications - peripheran neuropathy, sometmes kidney impacts and so on, yet others appear diagnosed with very high numbers, yet appear unscathed. Of course, the former may find their complications improve, or indeed disappear, and the latter could have issues in the future.

    I'm not suggesting it is desirable to live with high numbers. The higher the numbers, the greater likelyhood of issues arising,
    .

    1.A. Pre-diabetes is still diabetes, but not bad enough for a doctor to prescribe medication yet. Most GPs trained more than 5 years ago would confidently wager their car (but perhaps not their house) that your pre-diabetes will progress into full diabetes.
    So 'pre-diabetes' is still diabetes!

    I disagree that pre-diabetes is diabetes. Were it diabetes, it would be called that. In my view pre-diabetes is a shot across the bows that the individual's glucose metabolism isn't funtioning well, for whatever reason. The individual then has a choice to either attempt some lifestyle changes in an effort to improve things, or wait and see what happens.

    I don't have a link to hand, but there was a piece of work done in Australia, tracking those diagnosed with pre-diabetes, who did not make any interventions. At the end of 5yrs, if I recall the term correctly, only something like 30% of those being tracked had progressed to levels meaning a diagnosis of diagnosis.

    My suggestion to anyone learning their blood levels had reached pre-diabetic levels wiuild be to try to improve matters by tweaking their diet and perhaps exercising more, if they are able to, then retest after a measured period. From there, they can review and decide what needs to be done, moving forward.


    2. Levels, different countries use different measuring systems and occasionally set/re-set) different levels. The current generally accepted upper level Hba1c for the normal range is 42 - but many in here aim for under 40.

    My understanding is the upper level of "normal" blood glucose levels is 41.

    I agree individuals have their own blood glucose targets. Some will be in the normal range, but others, for a plethora of reasons will have targets in the prediabetic, or diabetic ranges. The reasons an individual has any given target are as many as there are people living with diabetes or pre-diabetes.

    3. You are probably getting confused between Sugars and Carbs. Their is a distinction between the two for normal healthy people. But for almost all Type 2 diabetics a carb is exactly the same as a sugar - all that changes is the time taken for it to be converted into Sugar in the bloodstream (Blood Glucose).
    So forget, until proven different for you (with a BG meter), all this talk about Good/Healthy carbs and the distinction between Low GI and High GI foods. We are all different in our tolerance of Carbs, but all Type 2 diabetics have a certain degree of intolerance to carbs - they are (mostly) like a poison to us.

    I would disaree that carbs are like poison. Demonising any food or food group isn't helpful. Unless you ae living a fully carniovore or a 100% fat lifestyle, it is extremely likely you are consuming carbs.

    Personally, I prefer to consider that excessive carb levels, resulting in excessively elevated blood sugar levels have a potential to be harmful, but in my world, they're not poison. Again, personally, I haven't had bread, cakes or pasta for quite some time, but that is my choice. I have the additional wrinkle of needing to eat a gluten-free diet, but potatoes and rice are occasional elements of meals for me. Of course, were I to indulge in those significantly more often things might be different, but my last A1c was 27, so I'm content enough, for the time being, with my choices.

    Having said all that we are all different, so some type 2 diabetics may be able to eat a banana (or half a banana) with something high in fat like double cream and still not suffer a spike in Blood Glucose - but unfortunately those are very few indeed.

    So to put it in the starkest terms:
    1. Government health guidelines - such as 'healthy carbs' and '5 a day' at the very least make some people very ill (perhaps even cause amputation, blindness and death).

    Excessive carbs, whether from bananas, mangoes, pasta or whatever are what can lead to elevated blood sugars, and in turn may lead to complications. In reality, some people may be able to tolerate more carbs than others. Indeed, I almost always have at least 5 portions of vegetables or lower carb fruit per day. The devil is indeed in the detail.
    2. Conventional medical treatment for type 2 diabetes actually makes the condition worse!
    A very sweeping statement. It can be true, but for others, they do well on medication.

    I always think it worth reminding myself that the groups of people we have here are not your most typical. Many people arrive here, when their treatment or approach isn't yielding the results they had hoped for, but how many are out there doing OK?

    I am a member of my local Diabetes UK group. It's a likely, thriving, group of people over a wide age range, and the members live with a variety of types of diabetes.

    One young man in particular, has recently lost 5 or 6 stones, and curious about his approach, I enquired. He went to Slimming World, or WeightWatchers. I can't recall exactly. This far he has maintained his weight for a year or so, so it's looking good for him.

    In my mind, there is no one true was to approach diabetes, and for me, making suggestions to another, the most important thing is that they chose to go down a route they can see as sustainable.

    3. You can't trust most dieticians, doctors and other 'Healthcare Professionals' - even those who specialise in diabetes!
    I would certainly agree that the health car e professional interactions can be mixed.
    4. You must be sceptical and yet open minded. If a BG meter backs up what somebody says - then it may well be true - if it doesn't -well then it is more likely to be false, at least for you!
    This is where my mantra of eating to my meter comes into things. I see personal, real-time feedback to my lifestyle - whether dietary of exercise. I let my meter be my guide. I listened to other, but what worked for then needn't necessarily be for me.

     
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  7. Auto E

    Auto E Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    DCUKMod - thanks for these beautiful comments. I had posted a question about some worsening of my A1C recently, but I'm realizing I am just going to have to do the "experiments" on myself. I sure wish I could afford a CGM, but in the meantime, I will go through thousands of strips until I figure this problem out. And congrats on the A1C of 27! Lovely!
     
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    #7 Auto E, Aug 26, 2019 at 4:17 PM
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2019
  8. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
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    @Auto E the cost of CGM is indeed steep, but if you have a compatible smart phone and were able to see your way to purchasing 1 freestyle libre sensor, it may be a 2 week short cut to understanding what is going on with your blood sugars, with and without food.
     
  9. Auto E

    Auto E Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    I am totally going to look into this. I didn't know that this was even a possibility. On it! :) Thank you for suggesting this.
     
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  10. ianf0ster

    ianf0ster Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi,
    Perhaps I was not making myself clear. a poison may kill you, but usually doesn't (depending upon the dose). We humans regularly eat lots of poisons: rhubarb, apple seeds, radioactive Brazil nuts, we drink alcohol (a poison), we smoke, even used to chew tobacco etc. Some can tolerate more than others.
    Many of our medicinal drugs are poisons - that doesn't mean we should necessarily stop taking them, but we should recognise their danger.
     
  11. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    I agree with you, on all your points in this quote ^

    However,
    there is a big difference between recognising that anything in excess has the potential to be toxic,
    and
    making statements that carbs are like poison.

    I mean, we don't go around saying that Brazil nuts and apple seeds are poison, do we?
    If the subject comes up, we may make a statement like 'did you know that food can be harmful in excess, probably best to watch the portion size...'
     
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  12. ianf0ster

    ianf0ster Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Most people don't say things like that, however most people are not me !
    I first heard of the Apple Pip problem when somebody got seriously ill from eating an apple yoghurt.
    I think you would have to eat something like the pips (more usually people just eat the whole core) from 20 apples in a single session, for any symptoms, likewise for Brazil nuts huge quantities would be required. Green patches on potatoes and rhubarb are easier to get ill from.
    Since I am more of a science/engineering type than most I don't understand why people suddenly go from its completely OK (or even completely good for you) to avoid it at all costs when there is hardly a change in the evidence. But I recognise that they do. They seem to expect life to be both simple and fair, when it is obviously neither!

    I would like to defend my position on 5 a day too. Without the knowledge from these forums what does 'Eat 5 portions of Fruit and Vegetables per day' mean to you?
    To be it meant choose fruit primarily, and it certainly didn't say avoid high Sugar fruit or High Carb fruit or high carb veg!
    No, it was that which started the fad for juicing fruit to get your 5 portions as simply as possible. It was only much later that it was admitted that fruit juice is almost as bad as neat table sugar (matching for quantities of carbs).
    In fact my GP back around 2000 told me to go Low fat because of my familial cardio history. But he didn't just say Low Fat, he said lots of whole grains and 5 a day. So by the time I needed the 3x bypass op, I had been on a high Carb low fat lifestyle for over 15yrs and was unsurprisingly more than 20lbs heavier!

    Yet at the same GP practice, at least some of them are still telling me as a Type 2 diabetic to eat low fat, lower carb but lots of 'healthy grains'. They have still not got the message that for the average (or even most) Type 2 there is no such thing as a healthy grain!
     
    #12 ianf0ster, Aug 28, 2019 at 2:52 PM
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2019
  13. ianf0ster

    ianf0ster Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps carbs (in all forms) for Diabetics are best summed up in a nice catchy phrase like used for that (vilified) book on Sugar:
    Less Sweet, less White, less but still, Deadly.
     
  14. ChristieM

    ChristieM Type 2 · Active Member

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    You have mentioned something that I find confusing. This is that HbA1c is an average level over the previous 12 weeks. When I asked her he diabetes dietician about this, she said it was usually described as an average but it was actually the amount of glucose that had attached itself to your blood cells, which die off after 2/3 months. So if you’re spiking some of the time but your blood sugar is low at other times, your average could appear a good level but you’re still spiking to high levels - not good. If it’s how much glucose attached to your red blood cells and it’s a good level, that indicates you are not insulin resistant and that’s a good thing! So which is it? As I say, I’m confused. (And also apparently in ‘remission’. Nevertheless the less I still regard my self as diabetic and follow a lowish carb diet.)
    Thanks if someone can sort this issue out for me.


     
  15. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · BANNED

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    My belief is that "safe" blood glucose ranges are very personal. We encounter people joining here whose blood glucose numbers are relatively modest, yet at diagnosis, have pre-existing complications - peripheran neuropathy, sometmes kidney impacts and so on, yet others appear diagnosed with very high numbers, yet appear unscathed. Of course, the former may find their complications improve, or indeed disappear,”

    This summed my condition up. Something that seems to have not been recognised. But I have to say I agree with your statement as it stands at the moment.

    The fact that I registered a 49 once does not mean I did not have diabetic conditions.

    And on that basis I should be T2 in remission.
     
    #15 Listlad, Aug 28, 2019 at 3:55 PM
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2019
  16. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    Fortunately not.
    Demonising any food group, including carbs, is not in line with the forum rules, and will be edited, and moderated, as appropriate, when members do so.

    Perhaps you should familiarise yourself with the forum rules,
    https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/community-ethos-forum-rules.50278/
    Particularly rules B3, 4, 5 and C12 bulletpoint 4.
     
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  17. ChrissyW

    ChrissyW · Member

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    I have just been diagnosed with prediabetes and have an underactive thyroid. Will my meds affect my blood sugars?
     
  18. Daphne917

    Daphne917 Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    @ChrissyW welcome to the forum. I take 50mg Thyroxine daily and it does not seem to affect my blood sugars.
     
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  19. ChrissyW

    ChrissyW · Member

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    Thank you. I am on 112mg. I have decided to get myself a monitor as I am struggling to know whether my change of diet is helping.
     
  20. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    Changing your diet to reduce your BG levels and not having a meter is like driving around town without a working speedometer.
    Yes you can wait for the Hba1c or the speeding fines to roll in (or the driver behind honking furiously).
    Once you are used to the way of eating you know what to eat, just as an experienced driver only needs to glance at the instruments from time to time, but the meter should give you information about just what is right for you. We all seem to cope differently with different higher carb foods so it really helps to know.
     
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