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Prescribed Metformin but wondering I can do this on diet alone

Discussion in 'Newly Diagnosed' started by Nicole T, Jul 19, 2020.

  1. Nicole T

    Nicole T Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, and I'd welcome your feedback on others you try. There seem to be supply issues with the Ultra at the moment, if Amazon, Tesco and Asda are anything to go by.

    If they're not too expensive, I'll give them a go. But as someone who begrudges paying much more than £1.50 a litre for stuff to drink at home (which is what Carling works out as when Morrisions are charging £12 for 18 440ml cans) I expect these will be a fair bit more expensive.

    I think the 'mission' on a night out will be to alternate between beers and single gins with lots of slimline.
     
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  2. Nicole T

    Nicole T Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Just 'dared' to make a prawn and beansprout stir fry, using an Aldi sweet & sour sauce sachet that wasn't exactly low in carbs. Kind of an experiment to see if it spiked me. 90 minutes later, and just tested at 6.0. Happy days :)

    I also did homemade low carb gazpacho for the first time, earlier in the day. It's nice enough, but I think I'll roast the peppers next time I make it. They've added a slightly bitter taste, raw.

    I'm going for a meal with friends on Thursday where I'll probably be naughty and have fish and chips. See how that hits me.
     
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    #62 Nicole T, Jul 26, 2020 at 7:12 PM
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
  3. copilost

    copilost Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    let us know, always good to have a window on life
     
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  4. Antje77

    Antje77 LADA · Moderator
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    Sounds very yummy! (And I agree, roast peppers are way better than raw.)
    Fish and chips, well, please enjoy them to the fullest, just in case your meter readings tell you it isn't the best choice. Perfect learning opportunity in combination with a very enjoyable meal ;)
    You might want to do some additional testing after the 2 hours after eating test, the fat content may give you a prolonged rise, hours after you've eaten. Again, just for learning purposes of course!

    Have you already encountered the 'What have you eaten today thread'? You might like it, and I'm sure the followers of that thread would be interested in your gazpacho :)
    It's in the low carb section of the forum though, so not the right place for fish and chips :D
    https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/what-have-you-eaten-today.75781/page-1954
     
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  5. mymuk

    mymuk Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    *waves*

    I think you're doing really well.

    Heh. I could tell you were a developer just from your style of posting!
     
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  6. Nicole T

    Nicole T Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Meal out, and I had a mixed grill. The chips and the tomato were naughty, but everything else should have been close to zero carbs. A couple of pints of lager with it, too.

    2 hours later, 11.4, I thought "that can't be right" and tested again, twice. 5.6 and 5.5 respectively. All three readings within the space of about 2 minutes.

    The only thing I can think of is that, for the 11.4, even though I had a good blob of blood to sample, for some reason it took about 3 goes to get enough onto the strip. Could this possibly be the reason for the misread? And if not, what's going on here? Samples 1 and 3 were from my right hand (though different fingers) and sample 2 from the left, in case that's relevant.

    Something on my skin skewing the readings, perhaps?
     
    #66 Nicole T, Jul 30, 2020 at 10:29 PM
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020
  7. EllieM

    EllieM Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    It's very very easy to get a bad reading if there are any contaminants on your hands. If I'm dubious about a reading, I always test again.
     
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  8. Lupf

    Lupf Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I had to adjust to my travel when, last year, I started doing intermittent fasting (5+2 with max 600 calories on fast days). It is a learning by doing process. A couple of things worked for me.
    1) I never really liked airport food, so I used travel days for fasting, i.e. no food while flying short distance or waiting for your flight.
    2) For my meal on fast days, you can buy salads with chicken, shrmps, avocados, ... which are low carbs for a 400 cal. meals.
    3) if staying in a hotel, try having a full breakfast without the bread, and yoghurt, unless they are low fat. Always go for the eggs.
    4) Beer is liquid bread, so have a glass of wine instead.
    I kept going for evening meals with colleagues as networking is important. This is what I am really missing now.

    @Nicole T Good luck on your journey. you are doing great so far.
     
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  9. Bex72

    Bex72 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi Nicole, you are very positive which I think is a must. If you can reduce carbs and have a good impact on the BS then it seems to be a no brainer. Your post really resonated with me, I know what you mean about chocolate and laziness!
    I am newly diagnosed too, probably type 2 but could be type 1. Awaiting test results. I bought a BS monitor, I've taken Metformin since Saturday (1 a day atm). I noticed blurry vision last Thursday, unquenchable thirst at night etc. My BS was 21/22 dropping to 15. I was in shock and v low mood at first. I am a fat skinny person, I have a spare tyre so am likely to have visceral fat wrapped around my liver and pancreas. I remember watching a Michael Mosley documentary about diabetes years ago and recalled the advice on carbs. My food has been very carb heavy recently, lockdown hasn't helped. I've been v nauseous (could be due to metformin) but have cut out all sugar, potatoes, rice, pasta, bread and booze. Today, before dinner my BS had fallen to 8.5. I can't tell you how amazing this feels. It would be great to reverse this illness through what I consume. I'm still feeling a bit rubbish tbh but am very optimistic and like you my bike is calling me. All the best to you.
     
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  10. Nicole T

    Nicole T Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Welcome on board. It's definitely scary at first, but I found it quickly passes to "I have to manage this now. I can, and I will."

    It sort of did and didn't come as a big surprise to me. I've suffered from urinary tract infections for over 20 years, and been stuck in a cycle of "get infection and go to GP... GP demands a urine test... test finds evidence of infection but no root cause, but also finds sugar... panic about diabetes... do fasting bloods... they come back fine... repeat in about 12 months time." They hadn't got me in about 10 years, since the urology consultant gave me good antibiotics on repeat prescription. But this time round, the antibiotics hadn't worked (this does happen, sometimes) and my GP wouldn't give me different ones without a urine sample. So I gave them the sample, they did the tests, they found sugar as usual, and I flippantly thought "Oh here we go again." But this time, it was the real deal.

    But let's face it, I tick all of the boxes. Overweight: check. Lack of exercise: check. Type 2 in immediate family: check (my mother.) Not watching my carb intake: check. It was almost inevitable.

    I'm trying to take it as the boot up the backside I need to get my life in order. Though I do miss pasta and rice (and will be reintroducing small quantities when I work out how much I can tolerate) I'm fairly happy doing without bread, chocolate, sweets etc.

    But they can pry alcohol out of my cold, dead hands. I don't smoke. I don't do drugs. I've just gone on the strictest diet I've ever been on. I think I'm entitled to one vice. That was one of the things that seriously put me off the idea of Metformin: the idea of potentially dealing with hypos up to 24 hours after consuming alcohol. That doesn't fit well with my social life at all.

    I don't think lockdown has done any of us any favours, pre-diagnosis at least. It was easier (and seemingly safer) to order junk from Amazon than to venture out into the supermarket. I reckon I got through at least 3 2.4 kilo boxes of Celebrations. The irony was that I kept increasing my intake because I wasn't putting on weight. So why not? The stuff was doing me no harm.

    Except that it was. I just didn't realise it.

    I bought an exercise bike for when the weather is too poor to use the other one. Now I'm finding I get too lazy to do the prep work to take the proper bike out, and just do the exercise bike, instead. Though I did take the bike out for a 10 mile run this evening. It was the perfect weather for it.
     
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  11. Bex72

    Bex72 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I love your comment about booze. I used it as a crutch a while ago so stopped for almost three years. Lockdown got me back drinking. I'm not missing it at present but the nausea is probably helping to curb any urges. To me it feels a bit like Karma, I've been looking at family members and thinking they're a candidate for diabetes LOL (be careful what you think). People have been so kind and helpful on the forum, it's so important to know there are people happy to offer support when you need it. It seems my threshold for getting diabetes was relatively low. Each person's experience is individual. I'm going quite hard with low carb angle in part because I want to lower the blood sugar and get rid of the blurred vision but also to try and stop taking metformin. I'm sure that I will check my tolerance to more starches and sugars as my BS levels reduce.
    I have eaten more chocolate cherry liqueurs in Lockdown than you'd think possible. My lockdown walks involved having a can of two of g&t in my pockets.
    Take care my dear
     
  12. Nicole T

    Nicole T Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    My history with drink is an odd one. In my early 20s, I used to go out with a friend about once a month, have 3 pints, and be unable to walk in a straight line going home. The occasional binge with a colleague while working away (and work was paying) but nothing untoward. Then I got involved with someone who came from a drinking family. Drinking every night became the norm. And as the relationship deteriorated (she suffered from stress and depression, therefore so did I, by proxy) it just became a way of getting through every night.

    We separated, and I kept up the habit. But after a while, decided to do 'dry during the week' (with occasional exceptions when working away or socialising.) That went on until my ex boss dumped someone else's job on me (one I hated, and wasn't qualified to do) and told me it took priority over my existing job, which I was still supposed to be doing as well. But if I had to let him down looking after his databases or writing his reports, or let down a customer I'd looked after for 25 years, it was the customer I had to let down. And I wasn't even allowed to tell them why. Back to drinking every day again, while that was going on.

    That situation eventually went away (as did that boss) so I went back to 'dry during the week.' Then lockdown kicked in, and even though I wasn't furloughed, every day felt the same. We're 'socially distancing' now, and have a lot more freedom. I think most of us struggled to get through actual lockdown, and did whatever it took to get us through each day.

    But come Friday night, I can't wait to pop open a cold beer. And on a night out on the town, about a dozen times a year, I still plan to be knocking them back like I have been for years.

    I've noticed that, rather like obesity, there's a 'you brought this on yourself' mentality out there in the general public. Jokes like "Johnny has 3 bags of sweets, and someone gives him another 2 bags of sweets. What does Johnny have? Johnny has diabetes." But as with obesity, genetics play a significant role, and if Johnny wasn't susceptible to diabetes, he could eat as many sweets as he liked. You're often being judged by people who've never even faced the challenge.

    And yes, they are a fantastically supportive bunch, here. I've seen almost no negativity. I'm used to the kind of forum where everyone's arguing. Even when people disagree, it seems to stay polite, here.

    You take care, too.
     
  13. Nicole T

    Nicole T Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    So what's going on here?

    Gone low carb for several weeks now, but had a couple of 'naughty experiments', some of which went well and some didn't. But the last 2 (yesterday and today) are interesting.

    Paella, including 125g of basmati rice, didn't spike my blood sugar at all yesterday. Literally the same figure pre-meal and 2 hours afterwards. Though I did use a cooking method that hopefully dumped a lot of starch. Tonight, a huge pub mixed grill, including half a large plate of chips, onion rings, corn on the cob and a grilled tomato (as well as other, no carb items) took me from a 5.1 before to a 6.0, 2 hours later, tonight.

    I've run test solution on a strip and got a 7.5, which is towards the upper end of the test range, so I don't think my meter/strips are playing up, and certainly not under-reading. GlucoRx-Q, if that's at all relevant.

    Is it possible that I've just blitzed my body with stupid amounts of carbs lately, and while still diabetic (in the sense of not being able to keep its HbA1c below 48, while throwing tons of junk down my gullet) maybe my body just needed a break from the constant bombardment of carbs, and can handle the odd splurge without even significantly spiking?

    Alcohol was involved tonight, which might create a delayed response. But if I get below a 7 in the morning, I don't think that's a significant issue, either.

    I haven't had over a 7 out of my meter in over a week. In over 2 weeks, if you exclude the previous paella I did where I didn't try to remove the starch.

    Fingers crossed for a 'below 7' tomorrow.
     
  14. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    hi,

    you’ve probably given your body a bit of a rest, and allowed it to recover somewhat. That may be part of it.

    then the smaller rice portion may now be within your capacity to cope. Portion size is very important, so maybe that amount is ok for you at the mo? You would have to check again. And of course there are other factors, such as activity and stress levels. Also, if your glycogen levels (glucose stored in liver and large muscles) was low/depleted after weeks of strict lc, then the glucose from your food may have been being tucked away quickly into those storage areas, rather than floating around for a while. And your insulin resistance may now be lower, enabling your body to distribute glucose more efficiently.

    Then, your steak and chips are slow to digest. Big meal, lots of fat and protein. Your bg may just have been starting to rise at 2 hrs, and could have had a long slow rise and drop over several hours. I used to find steak and chips would peak around 3-4 hrs and then take another 2 hrs to return to base. Steak by itself hardly shows any rise at all.

    complex, innit?
     
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  15. Bex72

    Bex72 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It's interesting to read your recall of your experience with drinking. It is so entwined in socialising and stress that it becomes a dependency that you people don't like to admit. I was always the one that drank too much every couple months and would ruin a weekend with an atrocious hangover. I then had my closest friend diagnosed with a terminal brain tumour and my reaction was to drink a lot more. I then decided to stop for a month for charity and it rolled forwards for almost 3 years. I went back to drinking in lockdown due to stresses. I also stopped eating as healthily, lots of snacking etc and put on a lot around the middle. I hadn't drunk for a couple of weeks since the diabetes diagnosis but have a couple of bottles of spirit to mix a miniscule amount with coke zero. I've waved goodbye to my glasses of wine.
     
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  16. Nicole T

    Nicole T Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It's definitely complex.

    I made the two paellas with exactly the same ingredients and quantities. The only difference was that I pre-boiled and rinsed the rice the second time round, to remove as much starch as I could. I was hoping it would knock something off the 2.7 spike I got the first time, but I wasn't expecting my 2 hours after reading to be the same as my pre-meal one.

    6.7 this morning, which is my highest morning reading for a while, but still below the 7 I was aiming for. More alarmingly, I've put on 6lbs since yesterday. The app that goes with my scales actually asked me if I was weighing the same person. For that kind of weight gain in 24 hours, I can only guess I'm retaining a lot of fluid or I'm still digesting the meal.

    Conclusion: it seems this is something I can get away with doing every once in a while, within the context of a generally low carb diet. Also, I really felt I was only eating the chips because they were there, and because they were part of the experiment. I may ask them to leave them off, or might give them to someone else, in future.
     
  17. copilost

    copilost Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    this seems a possibility and is related to hyperinsulinemia
     
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  18. Antje77

    Antje77 LADA · Moderator
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    And about a 1000 other things, including alcohol...

    This is what chips do to me.
    And then there's the alcohol. It's common to see lower numbers after drinking because as long as your liver is busy working on the alcohol it doesn't have time for things like dumping glucose in your bloodstream. This effect is the reason diabetics on insulin are often advised to eat something carby and fatty before bed after a night drinking to prevent them getting a dangerous hypo while sleeping.

    On the other hand, the results from all your little experiments look good, you might be one of the lucky ones who can keep their T2 in check with a moderate amount of carbs, you won't be the only one :)
     
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  19. Nicole T

    Nicole T Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    4.9 just now (before lunch) so no lasting damage done, it seems. I didn't have that much to drink, so it's highly unlikely I'm still processing alcohol. The most concerning thing about this right now is the weight gain.
     
  20. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
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    Nicole - When I was working on my numbers, when experimenting, or trying new foods, I'd always test longer than 2 hours. I'd do the before test, then 2 hours after, then each 30 minutes, until I am sure my numbers are dropping again.

    If you can afford it, I think you could get a huge amount of information from investing in a couple of Freestyle Libre sensors, so that you can see your numbers 24/7 for the two weeks of each sensor.

    I had been diagnosed some time when the Libre became available. When I tried it out, I started thinking I had a good handle on what my bloods did. I wasn't too bad, but I still learned a massive amount about my body and how it handles life.
     
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