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Professor Roy Taylor

lucylocket61 said:
I think we are agreeing that carbs are a trigger for those pre-disposed to type 2 diabetes. My point was that I dont like them being called a cause, as, by themselves, they do not cause type 2 diabetes in the majority of the population who do not have the mysterious condition which triggers type 2 diabetes.

in the same way as nuts trigger an allergic reaction in those allergic to them, but do not trigger an allergic reaction in those without the allergy.

i think its a intolerance/processing disorder which is the cause of type 2 diabetes.
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We will have to disagree. The curve in obesity and the correlative track since the late seventies and eighties does not need a PHD to interpret in my view. I would extend the causes to be

- Sugar
- Sodas
- Vegetable oils
- Modern carbs (GM based corns, flour, grains)
- Starchy carbs
- Processed foods with the above

I feel confident that if these were curtailed I.e. the 80% which are on foods in our supermarkets, health outcomes across the globe would. I'm afraid I can't be persuaded that a glass of pure Orange juice with over 12 teaspoons of sugar, or a bagel or four but is great. The clincher for me is the times when I see non diabetics getting spikes eating this so called normal food, and then lastly when diabetics remove this non essential carbage and at least 70% of all markers improve.
 
Mbaker said:
We will have to disagree. The curve in obesity and the correlative track since the late seventies and eighties does not need a PHD to interpret in my view. I would extend the causes to be

- Sugar
- Sodas
- Vegetable oils
- Modern carbs (GM based corns, flour, grains)
- Starchy carbs
- Processed foods with the above

I feel confident that if these were curtailed I.e. the 80% which are on foods in our supermarkets, health outcomes across the globe would. I'm afraid I can't be persuaded that a glass of pure Orange juice with over 12 teaspoons of sugar, or a bagel or four but is great. The clincher for me is the times when I see non diabetics getting spikes eating this so called normal food, and then lastly when diabetics remove this non essential carbage and at least 70% of all markers improve.
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I think we are talking at cross purposes.

I agree that these carbs, in the form and quantity our modern world provides, are bad and cause obesity.

I do not agree that they cause type 2 diabetes, of themselves.

They make type 2 worse. They can trigger type 2 in those who, without such processed carbs in such quantities, may not have gone on to develop type 2 diabetes, despite their latent susceptibility to it.
But they do not cause type 2 diabetes in those who do not have whatever it is which does not function properly and makes type 2 diabetes happen.
 
FantomPoet said:
Rationing during WW2 seemed to create a nation which was relatively healthy as far as T2 was concerned. It also created a nation of gardeners producing vegetables so arguably the processing of carbs has been they key development on the nutrition front, from what I understand (I am so so not old enough to experience it) there were plenty of root vegetables at the time. Although genetics may have been lying in wait for an environment change to clash with the 'programming' I am wary of thinking that genetics evolving had caused this as there just hasn't been the time for a pandemic modification the to general genome.

So in an armchair economist view (AND NOT armchair medic) can we assume that the type of (carbs) food is the cause then the answer is in reverting to what has come before?

Is there a resource anywhere which itemise what the average joe ate in previous decades? Not just in the UK but other countries as well. I realise I have happily simplifying a subject but it elicits responses from which I learn things.
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I agree re processed carbs. During the war years their food was heavily carb based but unprocessed bread, potatoes to fill them up. But most protein was strictly rationed. I can remember my dad telling me about a pie his mum used to make filled witb potatoes and root veg. Had a funny name woolworths pie or something like that! Also i think i remember seeing something about diabetes on the increase in countries like Japan, who were previously healthy on a largely rice based diet, but are now getting fatter and increase in diabetes now they are adopting a western processed and fast food diet.
 
Taken from the Wiki link:

Using 1938 food production data, they fed themselves and other volunteers one egg, one pound of meat and four ounces of fish a week; one quarter pint (0.14 litre) of milk a day; four ounces of margarine; and unlimited amounts of potatoes, vegetables and wholemeal bread. Two weeks of intensive outdoor exercise simulated the strenuous wartime physical work Britons would likely have to perform. The scientists found that the subjects' health and performance remained very good after three months; the only negative results were the increased time needed for meals to consume the necessary calories from bread and potatoes, and what they described as a "remarkable" increase in flatulence from the large amount of starch in the diet.

Another good reason for LCHF o_O
 
Even better!!!!

Weekly supplementary allowances of rationed foods for invalids
Disease Food supplementary allowance Quantity Coupons to be surrendered
Diabetes Butter and margarine 12 oz (340 g) (not more than 4 oz (110 g) butter) Sugar
Diabetes Meat 2s. 4d., adult 1s, 2d., child under six Sugar
Diabetes—vegetarians only Cheese 8 oz (230 g) Sugar
Hypoglycaemia Sugar 16 oz (450 g) -
Steatorrhoea Meat 4s. 8d. adult, 2s. 4d. child under six Butter and margarine
Nephritis with gross
albuminuria and gross oedema,
also nephrosis Meat 3s. 6d. adult, 1s. 9d. child under six
 
FantomPoet said:
Even better!!!!

Weekly supplementary allowances of rationed foods for invalids
Disease Food supplementary allowance Quantity Coupons to be surrendered
Diabetes Butter and margarine 12 oz (340 g) (not more than 4 oz (110 g) butter) Sugar
Diabetes Meat 2s. 4d., adult 1s, 2d., child under six Sugar
Diabetes—vegetarians only Cheese 8 oz (230 g) Sugar
Hypoglycaemia Sugar 16 oz (450 g) -
Steatorrhoea Meat 4s. 8d. adult, 2s. 4d. child under six Butter and margarine
Nephritis with gross
albuminuria and gross oedema,
also nephrosis Meat 3s. 6d. adult, 1s. 9d. child under six
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I don't have any experience of dealing with hypos but an additional 1lb of sugar a week seems a lot!
 
Mbaker said:
If you believe the statistics that in most societies there is circa 60% plus who are overweight or obese then hi GI carbs are a pandemic problem. Whichever side of the fence one sites on it is incontrovertible which of the 3 macronutrients causes the biggest insulin release aiding fat storage. Sugar / Carbs = fat, Sugar / Carbs and Fat combined is even worse.
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hyperinsulinism caused by refined carbohydrate.
 
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