Type 2 Protein diet-High or Low ?

[Happy dude]

Hi to all members.
I am confused about whether I should continue to follow a High protein diet or start on a Low protein diet. I am type 2 diabetic and also a kidney problem. I don't take medication but try to diet instead. I did succeed a few years ago with diet alone and got back to pre diabetic. My diabetic health center Nurse told me that my 1ac had lowered on my last test from 59 mm to 55 mm, however my protein level is too high at 30.03.
I was given a sheet of tips on a High protein diet, which I have been doing. I purchased glucose monitor as well and have been using it. The results vary between 8.5 mmols before breakfast and 11.7 mmol
2 hours after breakfast and everything between on following mornings. My BP is a little high but at 71 years of age that does not surprise me. I do take Atenolol and Aspirin for BP.
The confusion comes when after three weeks on a High protein diet I always feel tired and lost energy
and my muscles feel very weak. I know I cannot get up from the floor without a struggle or help ! and being 6 ft tall and 16 stone doesn't help. But I do exercise by cycling. My Doctor put me on Linagliptin but that caused me severe joint pain, blurred vision and irritability. Grrrr I stopped taking it.
Yesterday I happened to come across an online article - 'Healthline' advice on Diabetis and Kidney Diet.
It advises that everbody needs protein for their health and should always consume protein in the correct quantity and followed that with a Low protein list of foods and daily amounts.
I am very tempted to try it, but my Dr and my Nurse say that I must not take any notice of what I read on any media whether it is TV, Newspapers or Online ! I agree about Newspapers but I am also sure TV News and Online experts can be cautiously relied on. So what would you do ? would you go with High or Low protein diet. Regards to all

 

[Daibell]

Why are you so concerned about the amount of protein in the diet? The typical advice for us is to have a sensible level of protein but not necessarily high or low. It's equally important to have enough fat in the diet.

 

[Happy dude]

Why are you so concerned about the amount of protein in the diet? The typical advice for us is to have a sensible level of protein but not necessarily high or low. It's equally important to have enough fat in the diet.

Hi, My concern about protein is that it seems there are two diets suggested for people with diabetis and kidney discease.
My Doctor and Nurse tell me to eat a High protein diet and then tell me I have too much protein leaking from my Kidneys.
I asked if I should cut down on the protein food and they said NO. However 'Healthline suggest a Low protein diet as long as the correct amount is ingested daily. So now I wonder if I am getting lack of energy and muscle weakness because the High protein diet is wrong for me !

 

[bulkbiker]

Hi, My concern about protein is that it seems there are two diets suggested for people with diabetis and kidney discease.
My Doctor and Nurse tell me to eat a High protein diet and then tell me I have too much protein leaking from my Kidneys.
I asked if I should cut down on the protein food and they said NO. However 'Healthline suggest a Low protein diet as long as the correct amount is ingested daily. So now I wonder if I am getting lack of energy and muscle weakness because the High protein diet is wrong for me !

How much protein is your daily intake? Are you keeping a food diary?
You can't really eat only protein it usually comes along with other macros like carbs and fat so what are you mainly eating?

 

[ianf0ster]

Hi to all members.
I am confused about whether I should continue to follow a High protein diet or start on a Low protein diet. I am type 2 diabetic and also a kidney problem. I don't take medication but try to diet instead. I did succeed a few years ago with diet alone and got back to pre diabetic. My diabetic health center Nurse told me that my 1ac had lowered on my last test from 59 mm to 55 mm, however my protein level is too high at 30.03.
I was given a sheet of tips on a High protein diet, which I have been doing. I purchased glucose monitor as well and have been using it. The results vary between 8.5 mmols before breakfast and 11.7 mmol
2 hours after breakfast and everything between on following mornings. My BP is a little high but at 71 years of age that does not surprise me. I do take Atenolol and Aspirin for BP.
The confusion comes when after three weeks on a High protein diet I always feel tired and lost energy
and my muscles feel very weak. I know I cannot get up from the floor without a struggle or help ! and being 6 ft tall and 16 stone doesn't help. But I do exercise by cycling. My Doctor put me on Linagliptin but that caused me severe joint pain, blurred vision and irritability. Grrrr I stopped taking it.
Yesterday I happened to come across an online article - 'Healthline' advice on Diabetis and Kidney Diet.
It advises that everbody needs protein for their health and should always consume protein in the correct quantity and followed that with a Low protein list of foods and daily amounts.
I am very tempted to try it, but my Dr and my Nurse say that I must not take any notice of what I read on any media whether it is TV, Newspapers or Online ! I agree about Newspapers but I am also sure TV News and Online experts can be cautiously relied on. So what would you do ? would you go with High or Low protein diet. Regards to all

Hi Happy dude,
You can't trust the newspapers or people online, or even your health care professionals since you are a Type 2.
Neither should you trust me or anybody else! People have motives for what they say - sometimes their motives are altruistic, but even so they can give advice or information which is bad for you. We are all different and everybody lies in their own way!
For me any number above 7.8 mmols is a bad number and I take action - that may be eliminating carbs completely from my next meal or fasting (skipping that scheduled meal). - But that is me , not you!
I find it strange that you are mentioning High or Low Protein not high or Low Fat. Are you eating a Low Carb diet/lifestyle? - If not the high or low protein really doesn't make much difference!

Personally I find that Low Carb High Fat with sufficient protein (neither high nor low) works well for me. But that is just me and not everyone finds that eggs, cheese, nuts, full fat yoghurt and fatty meat/fish are things they want to eat.

So finally to answer your question, I would go with neither, though if I had no alternative but to choose between High Protein and Low Protein I would choose the high Protein. Note that I have heard that the bad press about high protein and Kidney problems is just a scare - though I have not verified that for myself since I don't need to!

 

[Happy dude]

Hi, I do keep a dairy every day so I can share it with my Diabetic Nurse. They suggested 3 eggs per day, whole grain bread, Natural Yoghurt, Full fat Cheese, Lots of fruit such as Blueberries, red grapes, Apples, rolled oats and salad food. Stop eating
Potatoes, spaghetti and white bread.
I keep to this as far as I can and somedays I fast for about 8 hours (unless I feel unwell). As far as my daily intake of protein and carbs - I don't know but I have just found a chart that might help add all these to my dairy.

 

[Happy dude]

Hi Happy dude,
You can't trust the newspapers or people online, or even your health care professionals since you are a Type 2.
Neither should you trust me or anybody else! People have motives for what they say - sometimes their motives are altruistic, but even so they can give advice or information which is bad for you. We are all different and everybody lies in their own way!
For me any number above 7.8 mmols is a bad number and I take action - that may be eliminating carbs completely from my next meal or fasting (skipping that scheduled meal). - But that is me , not you!
I find it strange that you are mentioning High or Low Protein not high or Low Fat. Are you eating a Low Carb diet/lifestyle? - If not the high or low protein really doesn't make much difference!

Personally I find that Low Carb High Fat with sufficient protein (neither high nor low) works well for me. But that is just me and not everyone finds that eggs, cheese, nuts, full fat yoghurt and fatty meat/fish are things they want to eat.

So finally to answer your question, I would go with neither, though if I had no alternative but to choose between High Protein and Low Protein I would choose the high Protein. Note that I have heard that the bad press about high protein and Kidney problems is just a scare - though I have not verified that for myself since I don't need to!

 

[HSSS]

Hi, I do keep a dairy every day so I can share it with my Diabetic Nurse. They suggested 3 eggs per day, whole grain bread, Natural Yoghurt, Full fat Cheese, Lots of fruit such as Blueberries, red grapes, Apples, rolled oats and salad food. Stop eating
Potatoes, spaghetti and white bread.
I keep to this as far as I can and somedays I fast for about 8 hours (unless I feel unwell). As far as my daily intake of protein and carbs - I don't know but I have just found a chart that might help add all these to my dairy.

In here (and we’ll supported by science and even the nhs now) most type 2 worry more about carbs than protein. They affect blood sugars far more. As all intake is a balance of protein, carbs and fats we tend to reduce carbs (quite a lot) maintain protein at a decent but not high level and adjust fats to fill the gaps making us full and giving us energy.

So I’d eat as many eggs as I like (the whole cholesterol thing with eggs has been well and truely debunked) ditch as much bread as you can bear to - doesn’t matter what colour it is it’s still carb heavy! Full fat natural yogurt to keep you fuller, keep the cheese, stick to just berries as grapes are high sugar, Ditch the oats as they have loads of carbs and have bacon for breakfast instead. Not eating potatoes bread and pasta I’d agree with wholeheartedly.

try dietdoctor.com for handy charts and a great explanation of low carb high fat and normal protein way of eating.

 

[Resurgam]

That 11.7 after breakfast is concerning.
It would seem to indicate that you are eating too many carbs, more than you can cope with.
I aim for no higher than 8, ever.
I stick to low carb veges and salad stuff, I do have Livlife bread or Protein bread which are 4 gm of carb per slice, but I keep them in the freezer otherwise they'd go mouldy before being used.
The problem I see with a high protein diet is that it can be broken down into glucose, exactly the stuff you do not want. Type ones have to take it into account when calculating their need for insulin. We cannot store protein so it has to be used for repairs, broken down or excreted through the kidneys - if I remember correctly.
That seems at odds with kidney problems.
The weakness is troubling too - are you eating lean meat? There is an illness which is caused by a low fat diet.

 

[Happy dude]

That 11.7 after breakfast is concerning.
It would seem to indicate that you are eating too many carbs, more than you can cope with.
I aim for no higher than 8, ever.
I stick to low carb veges and salad stuff, I do have Livlife bread or Protein bread which are 4 gm of carb per slice, but I keep them in the freezer otherwise they'd go mouldy before being used.
The problem I see with a high protein diet is that it can be broken down into glucose, exactly the stuff you do not want. Type ones have to take it into account when calculating their need for insulin. We cannot store protein so it has to be used for repairs, broken down or excreted through the kidneys - if I remember correctly.
That seems at odds with kidney problems.
The weakness is troubling too - are you eating lean meat? There is an illness which is caused by a low fat diet.

 

[catinahat]

Have you got a glucose meter ? If you have test your levels after eating grapes and oats, you might also test the blueberry's and apple's I think you will be surprised at how high they send your blood sugar levels.

 

[Happy dude]

Yes I think you are on to something. I don't eat any red meat. I love fresh fruit and salad and have been eating eggs and fish.
In the mornings I have been eating rolled oats with natural yoghurt and various fruit berries.This is combined with semi skimmed milk and put into the refridgerator over night ready for breakfast (about 30 grams of protein).

 

[Member496333]

It's important to get sufficient protein for maintenance, but to combust it as fuel means it first has to be reconstructed into glucose, so it's often not ideal for many diabetics to be eating it in excess. Specifically type 2 who may have heavy insulin resistance. If eating lower carbohydrate then the balance of energy should optimally come from fat, with protein remaining reasonably constant.

 

[Resurgam]

Yes I think you are on to something. I don't eat any red meat. I love fresh fruit and salad and have been eating eggs and fish.
In the mornings I have been eating rolled oats with natural yoghurt and various fruit berries.This is combined with semi skimmed milk and put into the refridgerator over night ready for breakfast (about 30 grams of protein).

Do you also calculate your carb intake? Your after breakfast levels are rather high.

 

[Happy dude]

It's important to get sufficient protein for maintenance, but to combust it as fuel means it first has to be reconstructed into glucose, so it's often not ideal for many diabetics to be eating it in excess. Specifically type 2 who may have heavy insulin resistance. If eating lower carbohydrate then the balance of energy should optimally come from fat, with protein remaining reasonably constant.

Thank you. I must admit I don't eat enough fat. Habit of trying to loose weight. Balancing act seems difficult too.

 

[Happy dude]

That 11.7 after breakfast is concerning.
It would seem to indicate that you are eating too many carbs, more than you can cope with.
I aim for no higher than 8, ever.
I stick to low carb veges and salad stuff, I do have Livlife bread or Protein bread which are 4 gm of carb per slice, but I keep them in the freezer otherwise they'd go mouldy before being used.
The problem I see with a high protein diet is that it can be broken down into glucose, exactly the stuff you do not want. Type ones have to take it into account when calculating their need for insulin. We cannot store protein so it has to be used for repairs, broken down or excreted through the kidneys - if I remember correctly.
That seems at odds with kidney problems.
The weakness is troubling too - are you eating lean meat? There is an illness which is caused by a low fat diet.

Hi, Yes I need to remember what you have said about high protein can result in glucose. Also I will look for the bread Livlife.
Thank you

 

[Happy dude]

In here (and we’ll supported by science and even the nhs now) most type 2 worry more about carbs than protein. They affect blood sugars far more. As all intake is a balance of protein, carbs and fats we tend to reduce carbs (quite a lot) maintain protein at a decent but not high level and adjust fats to fill the gaps making us full and giving us energy.

So I’d eat as many eggs as I like (the whole cholesterol thing with eggs has been well and truely debunked) ditch as much bread as you can bear to - doesn’t matter what colour it is it’s still carb heavy! Full fat natural yogurt to keep you fuller, keep the cheese, stick to just berries as grapes are high sugar, Ditch the oats as they have loads of carbs and have bacon for breakfast instead. Not eating potatoes bread and pasta I’d agree with wholeheartedly.
aco
try dietdoctor.com for handy charts and a great explanation of low carb high fat and normal protein way of eating.

Hi, This is the sought of advice that my Dr or Nurse should be giving me. I think your right and from now on I can start to live again with a lovely breakfast Eggs and Bacon ! Yum
Thank you

 

[Happy dude]

Hi Happy dude,
You can't trust the newspapers or people online, or even your health care professionals since you are a Type 2.
Neither should you trust me or anybody else! People have motives for what they say - sometimes their motives are altruistic, but even so they can give advice or information which is bad for you. We are all different and everybody lies in their own way!
For me any number above 7.8 mmols is a bad number and I take action - that may be eliminating carbs completely from my next meal or fasting (skipping that scheduled meal). - But that is me , not you!
I find it strange that you are mentioning High or Low Protein not high or Low Fat. Are you eating a Low Carb diet/lifestyle? - If not the high or low protein really doesn't make much difference!

Personally I find that Low Carb High Fat with sufficient protein (neither high nor low) works well for me. But that is just me and not everyone finds that eggs, cheese, nuts, full fat yoghurt and fatty meat/fish are things they want to eat.

So finally to answer your question, I would go with neither, though if I had no alternative but to choose between High Protein and Low Protein I would choose the high Protein. Note that I have heard that the bad press about high protein and Kidney problems is just a scare - though I have not verified that for myself since I don't need to!

Hi, I know exactly what you are saying about who to trust. In 2006 I was put on Atenolol Aspirin and SIMVISTATIN because of
Angina. After a few months I began to get terrible pains in my left leg but my Dr insisted it had nothing to do with the Simvistatin and that I must keep taking the medication. A few weeks later my pain was in my ankle, knee and groin. Once again I visited the Dr and again was told to continue with the medication. I explained to the Dr that I was in so much pain that I could not sleep. The only time I slept was through shear exhaustion and then only for about 20 minutes till the pain woke me up again.
Eventually I could not tolerate it any more so I stopped the medication. I asked the Dr to put in for rehabilitation and after a further 17 weeks of pain and 3 weeks of rehab the pain finaly went. During the whole period I lost at least a third of my leg muscle and fat above my knee and continued for many years thereafter with some pains when walking. It was during all this
that the BBC News announced that scientists found SIMVISTATIN should only be given to patients who had suffered Heart attacks, due to severe joint pains leading to MYALGA (Muscle problems ). My Dr asked me to go to see her for a check up, and lo and behold suddenly told me that I will no longer be given Simvistatin. She was unaware that I had already stopped the medication. I still suffer with pains and can only walk short distances.

 

[Tophat1900]

Here's a good way to approach diet if you are looking to follow a low carb diet. You should see a reduction in glucose numbers. Many people here have improved their health greatly by going low carb. Getting away from starch sugar like grains and potatoes and lots of fruit etc and replacing those with good fat.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blog-entry/the-nutritional-thingy.2330/

There is also www.dietdoctor.com for low carb meals and suggestions. This site also has a lot of really helpful info for Type 2's in general. You'll get more knowledge from diet doctor then your gp on diet and information in general imo, these Md's, doctors and specialists who are part of the site really know their stuff.

Glad you're off the statin, just remember, you can't be forced to take something. It's a little unnerving that your doctor seems to of taken you off the stain after possibly finding out about it from the BBC news. That would worry me, a doctor getting their education on a drug from the news, while ignoring everything you told them previously that made your life miserable.

Good luck with what you decide to do.

 

[ianf0ster]

Thank you. I must admit I don't eat enough fat. Habit of trying to loose weight. Balancing act seems difficult too.

Paradoxically, High Fat together with Low Carb is a fairly easy fairly reliable way for moany T2Diabetics to lose weight. There is plenty of real world evidence that dietary fat does not make us fat. On the contrary it may help our bodies change mode into 'fat burning' mode which then enables them to burn up stored excess body fat!