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Quandry re: the HF in LCHF & Cholesterol

miahara

miahara

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,019
Location
Tayside
Type of diabetes
Type 3c
Treatment type
Insulin
I'm an underweight T2 and for most of this year adopted the standard NHS diet, but more recentlty turned to a serious attempt at LCHF and this certainly worked as far as my BG levels went as they showed a marked and welcome reduction. Since being prescribed meds (gliclazide) my weight has also risen by about 8 pounds and I'm now a fraction below 9 stone.
What is concerning me slightly is the likely effect HF is having on my cholesterol level as I also suffer from peripheral arterial disease, in fact it was seeing the doc for this that resulted in me diagnosed with diabetes last December.
If I forget about the HF side of the diet, will that significantly impact on my BG even if I stick to the LC side of the equation? And will reducing the HF help reduce my cholesterol level? My CHO in December last year was 3.78 but had risen to 4.2 in August. I'm currently taking atorvastatin after my GP switched me from simvastatin after my last (August) results.
I'm at a bit of a loss as to which way to go so any suggestions will be very welcome.

Dave
 
My first comment is that if you quit the HF element you are in danger of losing weight as you will be losing a lot of calories.

My second comment is that in my opinion a total cholesterol f 3.78 is too low. A level of 4.2 is better but still low. However, as you have arterial disease I wouldn't like to press that point.

My third comment is that most of us find on LCHF that our cholesterol improves. By that I mean the breakdown of the cholesterol, not the total. The total is almost irrelevant. It is the HDL, triglycerides, LDL and ratios that matter. Have you got this breakdown? If so it would be helpful if you could tell us. If you don't have it, then do ask what they were. It could be your good cholesterol has improved, which would in turn raise the total. Before you start worrying and changing things, have a good look at your breakdown and do some research or ask on here.
 
The modern consensus seems to be that saturated fat is not linked to heart disease in any large scale study done in the last 50 years.
There are also a slew of modern studies showing that high cholesterol is not linked to heart disease either.
Conversely low levels of cholesterol are strongly indicative of potential dementia.
If you do a search on this website for Tim Noakes, who is a heart specialist who developed diabetes and adopted the LCHF diet, that would be a good starting point to allay your fears about fats.
 
miahara said:
I'm an underweight T2 and for most of this year adopted the standard NHS diet, but more recentlty turned to a serious attempt at LCHF and this certainly worked as far as my BG levels went as they showed a marked and welcome reduction. Since being prescribed meds (gliclazide) my weight has also risen by about 8 pounds and I'm now a fraction below 9 stone.
What is concerning me slightly is the likely effect HF is having on my cholesterol level as I also suffer from peripheral arterial disease, in fact it was seeing the doc for this that resulted in me diagnosed with diabetes last December.
If I forget about the HF side of the diet, will that significantly impact on my BG even if I stick to the LC side of the equation? And will reducing the HF help reduce my cholesterol level? My CHO in December last year was 3.78 but had risen to 4.2 in August. I'm currently taking atorvastatin after my GP switched me from simvastatin after my last (August) results.
I'm at a bit of a loss as to which way to go so any suggestions will be very welcome.

Dave
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On a LC Diet you need to get more calories from fat. The CHO increase is not that dramatic. Keep an eye on it. It might be caused by saturated fat, in which case you could try extra virgin olive oil, nuts, avacados etc.
 
I would stick my neck out and suggest the rise in total cholesterol (only a small rise) is due to a rise in HDL (good cholesterol) because low carbing is known to increase HDL. Or actually, eating a lot of carbs keeps HDL down.
 
Bluetit1802 said:
My first comment is that if you quit the HF element you are in danger of losing weight as you will be losing a lot of calories.

My second comment is that in my opinion a total cholesterol f 3.78 is too low. A level of 4.2 is better but still low. However, as you have arterial disease I wouldn't like to press that point.

My third comment is that most of us find on LCHF that our cholesterol improves. By that I mean the breakdown of the cholesterol, not the total. The total is almost irrelevant. It is the HDL, triglycerides, LDL and ratios that matter. Have you got this breakdown? If so it would be helpful if you could tell us. If you don't have it, then do ask what they were. It could be your good cholesterol has improved, which would in turn raise the total. Before you start worrying and changing things, have a good look at your breakdown and do some research or ask on here.
Click to expand...

Many thanks Bluetit1802!

I looked at the NHS wisdom regarding CHO and it says 5.0 or less for healthy adults and 4.0 ot less for those at high risk. My result of 4.2 on my last report from "My Diabetes my Way" where all my results are recorded came with the comment "Your cholesterol is slightly above targert and higher than your last measurement....."
My HDL was 1.83. LDL no result. Triglycerides 0.9.
 
Your trigs are good. Your HDL is within normal range but could be a bit higher. (Statins don't affect HDL). Your Total/HDL ratio is well under 4 so ideal and your trigs/HDL ratio is also very good.

Has your HDL increased since last time?
 
Although it is called LCHF the actual amount of fat you consume might be reduced from a 'normal' diet, as all the rather dodgy stuff included in pastry, baked goods and other processed foods is removed, and the fats you do eat are what nature put into the food.
It might seem logical to some that the consumption of a food containing cholesterol would lead to the stuff being absorbed into the blood, but I eat a lot of chlorophyll and my blood isn't green, which if the logic held would be the case. Actually I think that someone stuffed themselves with eggs and monitored their cholesterol levels - which went down, I believe - certainly the unwanted type reduced.
 
I prefer the term for me lower carb higher protein as a 3c eating fat is an issue. Poultry, fish, nuts and eggs all good protein, i have cut out, bread, rice, pasta, potatoes. I am mainly vegetarian as i find this helps with digestive issues.
I believe everyone can lower carbs without causing adverse issues to otjer medical needs
 
The old myth that foods containing cholesterol increase our body cholesterol was debunked some time ago. Our livers manufacture the vast majority of our cholesterol. It doesn't come from cholesterol filled food like eggs.
 
Bluetit1802 said:
Your trigs are good. Your HDL is within normal range but could be a bit higher. (Statins don't affect HDL). Your Total/HDL ratio is well under 4 so ideal and your trigs/HDL ratio is also very good.

Has your HDL increased since last time?
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Thanks for your encouraging reply Bluetit. Yes my HDL has increased from 1.37 to 1.83 :-)
 
miahara said:
Thanks for your encouraging reply Bluetit. Yes my HDL has increased from 1.37 to 1.83 :)
Click to expand...

Well there you go! Your HDL has increased by about the same as your Total. Therefore all is well. Your extra cholesterol since your last test is all HDL and therefore good! Celebrate! :)
 
spendercat said:
The modern consensus seems to be that saturated fat is not linked to heart disease in any large scale study done in the last 50 years.
There are also a slew of modern studies showing that high cholesterol is not linked to heart disease either.
Conversely low levels of cholesterol are strongly indicative of potential dementia.
If you do a search on this website for Tim Noakes, who is a heart specialist who developed diabetes and adopted the LCHF diet, that would be a good starting point to allay your fears about fats.
Click to expand...
Tim Noakes is not a heart specialist - he's a professor of Exercise Science and Sports Medicine. http://www.thenoakesfoundation.org/prof-noakes

Perhaps you were thinking of Aseem Malhotra?
http://doctoraseem.com/
 
I'm curious to know where some forum-members' use of "CHO" as an abbreviation for cholesterol comes from. It's not the first time I've seen it on this forum. However, CHO is normally used as an abbreviation for carbohydrate (as it contains contains Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen) and cholesterol is normally abbreviated to "chol". Context helps, but when cholesterol and carbohydrate are both being discussed it can lead to a few double-takes. o_O
 
Dark Horse said:
I'm curious to know where some forum-members' use of "CHO" as an abbreviation for cholesterol comes from. It's not the first time I've seen it on this forum. However, CHO is normally used as an abbreviation for carbohydrate (as it contains contains Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen) and cholesterol is normally abbreviated to "chol". Context helps, but when cholesterol and carbohydrate are both being discussed it can lead to a few double-takes. o_O
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That will be me then! :-) Apologies, I stand corrected.
 
I did the LCHF years back and got sky high cholesterol readings so wasn't prepared to stay on it due to family history of high cholesterol and heart disease. Everyone is different as to what they can do and what their risks are in doing so. I changed my diet back to eating moderate carbs and low fat. I also found the LCHF made my IBS worse when I was on it as well, terrible pain. In fact that was one of the first things my doc said is you need to cut the fat to help your bowel recover. So I had 2 reasons really as to why I stopped. But I'd tell anyone to at least give it a try and see how you go. If it's too much to deal with, you can always try something else. Being diabetic just means we have to be careful not to overdo the carbs anyhow. But these days I have a lot more restriction with my diet so it's quite hard for me to make all my conditions happy... in fact I'd say impossible almost. Some people I know have resorted to eating porridge only as that is all their bladder can handle. I'm still eliminating foods from my diet at the moment and it is harder because funny enough it's carbs that gives me the least pain, but of course carbs raise my BGLs... can't win. I wish you the best. :)
 
Mep said:
I did the LCHF years back and got sky high cholesterol readings so wasn't prepared to stay on it due to family history of high cholesterol and heart disease. Everyone is different as to what they can do and what their risks are in doing so. I changed my diet back to eating moderate carbs and low fat. I also found the LCHF made my IBS worse when I was on it as well, terrible pain. In fact that was one of the first things my doc said is you need to cut the fat to help your bowel recover. So I had 2 reasons really as to why I stopped. But I'd tell anyone to at least give it a try and see how you go. If it's too much to deal with, you can always try something else. Being diabetic just means we have to be careful not to overdo the carbs anyhow. But these days I have a lot more restriction with my diet so it's quite hard for me to make all my conditions happy... in fact I'd say impossible almost. Some people I know have resorted to eating porridge only as that is all their bladder can handle. I'm still eliminating foods from my diet at the moment and it is harder because funny enough it's carbs that gives me the least pain, but of course carbs raise my BGLs... can't win. I wish you the best. :)
Click to expand...

You're obviously having a tough time. I wish you the best too. Stay positive, your attitude is great.:happy:
 
miahara said:
That will be me then! :) Apologies, I stand corrected.
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Dpn't worry, it wasn't aimed at you in particular. :-) As I said, I have come across it before on these forums (also, confusingly, on a discussion related to both carbohydrates and cholesterol) and I just wondered where it had originated from.
 
Everybody is different. But I believe that the entire understanding of Cholesterol by the medical profession is totally wrong. The initial heart / health hypothesis was at best bad research and probably fraudulent. The early statin trials the same. The statin trials on which policy is based have still not been made available to researchers to check the findings, that they were reported accurately and honestly.

Drug companies found the goose that laid the golden egg, create an imaginary disease, then treat it with a drug that shows no actual improvements in longevity, people just die of different things. As Malcolm Kendrick says, 'Taking a statin will not change the date I write on your death certificate, it might change the cause of death'. Personally, with a total cholesterol double yours, I would not touch statins with a barge-pole! But that's a call only you can make! Like yours, my HDL and trigs are superb and my ratios fine.

Your peripheral arterial disease will be improved by lowering of your blood glucose, infinitely more important than lowering cholesterol, and what does taking a Statin do? Makes it harder to lower blood glucose!

So, @miahara what would I recommend? First of all, buy or borrow a book 'The great Cholesterol Con' by Malcolm Kendrick. It is full of humour, if you need cheering up. Then, go LCHF, many people do not struggle at all with high fat. I have no gall bladder and also had IBS, the thing I discovered was that eliminating wheat from my diet was key - I no longer have IBS at all. Eat only healthy fats, that is fats that occur naturally and are not industry produced, so olive oil (preferably extra virgin) butter, lard, dripping, coconut oil, avocados, fat in marbled meats. Eat nothing processed, cook real food from raw ingredients. There is now a massive movement throughout the world that is realising that this is the key to good health. All the best.
 
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