Covid and Work, Covid Advice and General Chat

NicoleC1971

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One thing I would ask you though Nicole is this just out of interest. If a little old man/lady/mother of a small child came up to you in a supermarket and said that he/she/they had numerous medical conditions so would you mind wearing a mask to make them feel safer would you put one on?
No but I'd move away further than the 2 metres rule that they'd presumably just broken to ask.
Would also step on cracks in pavements in spite of someone asking me not to because they suffered from anxiety.
Conflict is not my thing but I do think this is worth having a discussion over for those of us suffering from extreme cognitive dissonance around the sheer illogicality of the virus suppression rules. But you are very civilised in your disagreement and that's so important in this world right now!
 
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No but I'd move away further than the 2 metres rule that they'd presumably just broken to ask.
Would also step on cracks in pavements in spite of someone asking me not to because they suffered from anxiety.
Conflict is not my thing but I do think this is worth having a discussion over for those of us suffering from extreme cognitive dissonance around the sheer illogicality of the virus suppression rules. But you are very civilised in your disagreement and that's so important in this world right now!

I concur with your first sentence, as we know that things can spiral out of control and become illogical. My son is exempt from wearing a mask and he hasn't told me of anyone asking him to wear one, or question him about the lack of a mask. I wear one to keep others relatively safe and also my self, especially in my school escort tole, as I am in a very small space with children and the taxi is in use 7 days a week.
It's about trying to get a good sensible balance on what is going on and taking the relevant precautions where possible.
 
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I have found out today that my other job ( which I fit around the school role) is not doing any sampling or promotions of brands in their store. It's a well known supermarket and as I don't drive,It limits where I can travel too. We were all on furlough until this month,, October. My jobs are so different, but I love them both, so what I am going to do now I really don't know.
 
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Tannith

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https://nutrition.bmj.com/content/early/2020/05/20/bmjnph-2020-000096
Avoidance of vitamin D deficiency to slow the COVID-19 pandemic
  1. http://orcid.org/0000-0003-1478-1744Martin Kohlmeier
Author affiliations

Abstract
Vitamin D deficiency, which impedes good immune function, is common during winter and spring in regions of high latitude. There is good evidence that vitamin D deficiency contributes to the seasonal increase of virus infections of the respiratory tract, from the common cold to influenza, and now possibly also COVID-19. This communication explores key factors that make it more likely, particularly in combination, that individuals are vitamin D deficient. These factors include old age, obesity, dark skin tone and common genetic variants that impede vitamin D status
 

Max68

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https://nutrition.bmj.com/content/early/2020/05/20/bmjnph-2020-000096
Avoidance of vitamin D deficiency to slow the COVID-19 pandemic
  1. http://orcid.org/0000-0003-1478-1744Martin Kohlmeier
Author affiliations

Abstract
Vitamin D deficiency, which impedes good immune function, is common during winter and spring in regions of high latitude. There is good evidence that vitamin D deficiency contributes to the seasonal increase of virus infections of the respiratory tract, from the common cold to influenza, and now possibly also COVID-19. This communication explores key factors that make it more likely, particularly in combination, that individuals are vitamin D deficient. These factors include old age, obesity, dark skin tone and common genetic variants that impede vitamin D status

I also noticed these yesterday -

https://metro.co.uk/2020/10/28/study-finds-80-of-covid-19-patients-had-lack-of-vitamin-d-13492813/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...eficient-study.html?__twitter_impression=true

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...ed-in-study-had-vitamin-d-deficiency-12116111


Hence the reason I got mine checked again!

An interesting side note is Dr John Campbell, who still does Covid updates daily, said all this about Vitamin D way back around March, right at the start of the pandemic. I really don't know what planet some of these other scientists are looking at half the time as a lot of them blurt out something that suggests they have found the holy grail when it's been on the internet spoken as common sense by a mere family physician for months.

He also suggested back in March that Covid was likely to be airborne, that masks "could" make a difference on top of hand washing and social distancing. Rather listen to him than WHO!!
 
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Bluetit1802

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We live in a tier 3 area in Lancashire, and even though we have been under tight restrictions since mid September our cases are rising.

Do you think this is because people are not respecting the restrictions?

This was on the thread about wearing masks https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/covid-19-are-you-wearing-a-mask.173926/page-18#post-2324339 but we were digressing from the topic, so I have replied here.

No, I don't, in the main. I believe it is because my borough has a boundary with a town that is top of the national list for Covid cases. We are a rural borough, large in area, but sparse in population. Many people in our borough work or study in this neighbouring borough and are travelling back and forth daily. The students attend sixth form colleges and a Vocational College there, and travel on buses or the train. That is just my opinion, but I'm sure it isn't helping.
 

HSSS

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i would not dream of being aggressive to your BIL if he asked me if I had a medical exemption even if that is discriminatory but would leave the petrol station (don't drive but have previously used the M&S part to buy food) now I generally avoid places that have mask policing policies as don't want to make staff feel awkward nor assume that they have the same view as the majority pro masking population.
Some of us do not feel it is necessary or virtuous to wear a mask. It has been imposed in a draconian way on the back of extreme fear mongering so I guess I am a conscientious objector and do not want to pretend that I have a medical exemption in order to make my life easier.
Equally I am sure there are plenty of people who don't want to be told what to do and have no regard for others; if someone drops their takeaway box or empty tin etc. into the street then I am sometimes brave enough to ask those people to pick up their litter!
I think this issue is different.
Whilst I vociferously disagree with your take on the virus I am relieved and pleased to see that you neither impose your views on shop staff (and by implication other shop users) by entering unmasked nor lie about exemptions. I wish all others sharing your views on covid shared this consideration.
 
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Jbicheno

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Finally, I have seen my OH report (sent unencrypted). It does recommend several things but mainly a new personal risk assessment and asks if my request to wear a face mask to be accommodated at a ‘local level’ (given my LA updated guidance to primary schools on 12th October 2020 which I sent to my headteacher on 16/10/20-no reply) Fingers crossed I will be allowed wear one on return to school Monday.
 
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Max68

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I must say looking at various news reports I'm somewhat surprised that so many seem surprised that cases, hospitalisations and deaths are going up. If you open things up again like has been done over the last couple of months, along with a percentage of the populations personal decisions not to adhere to instruction then it's inevitable that the virus will take hold again. It's not rocket science,. You only need to look at 1917 and the three major waves which point to a viruses behaviour to see that similar would happen this time around. Even the Government seem baffled what with Boris's ridiculous comments about him hoping for normality by Christmas. An awful lot of people seem to have their heads in the sand and believe that by not thinking about it it will go away!!
 

Bluetit1802

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As I mentioned earlier about my own particular area. A good part of the spread between towns and counties is because people travel between them for work and study - and not restricted to university students. Younger people travel out of their local area to attend sixth form colleges, vocational colleges, grammar schools etc. These are all daily commuters, likely using public transport. This could continue as long as colleges remain open. Tier 3 residents are "asked" not to travel outside their own T3 area apart from work or education, so the problem remains. I do not believe the small minority who flout the rules can be blamed for all of it.
 

Max68

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As I mentioned earlier about my own particular area. A good part of the spread between towns and counties is because people travel between them for work and study - and not restricted to university students. Younger people travel out of their local area to attend sixth form colleges, vocational colleges, grammar schools etc. These are all daily commuters, likely using public transport. This could continue as long as colleges remain open. Tier 3 residents are "asked" not to travel outside their own T3 area apart from work or education, so the problem remains. I do not believe the small minority who flout the rules can be blamed for all of it.

Fair point, I probably phrased the post wrong. There are plenty of reasons obviously, but my main point was that I am surprised that so many seem to be surprised by the resurgence.
 
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Max68

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Once again it's a reactive decision by a government. The world over governments are plagued by reactive decisions rather than proactive ones. If they were proactive then this whole pandemic "might" have been managed better.

The problem is not enough studies have been made in important areas to categorically state an answer. For instance "if" I had been categorically told it was proven that a 52 year old male diabetic with an HBA1c of under whatever number was at no more risk than the rest of the population then I wouldn't have left work.

Same with this "do they" don't they" debate on whether children spread the virus. "If" children over 6 years old spread the virus then the argument could be why wasn't masks wearing made mandatory in children months ago? The other side of the coin would be "can" children of a young age, between say 6 and 10 be able to wear masks for a length of time? As many of us will point out, it is a pain wearing them for six hours or more and most of us probably do the wrong thing with them anyway, like taking them off, putting them back on, etc etc, so how is a 6 year old going to cope? On top of that it's possible, although I doubt it, that children under a certain age don't spread the virus, but this panicked governmental decision suggests that they do, unless as I say the particular studies haven't been done properly.

I find it staggering that months into this pandemic studies are still a wishy washy, dunno, maybe, possibly. How on earth can you do anything proactive or deal with the situation if you just don't know?!
 

Fairygodmother

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I think that many decisions by govt have been taken with half an eye on health, the other half of that eye on popular reactions and a whole eye on the economy. Like all science, evidence is built slowly and debate ensues. Put the two factors together and you have a bit of a mess.
 

Mr_Pot

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Once again it's a reactive decision by a government. The world over governments are plagued by reactive decisions rather than proactive ones. If they were proactive then this whole pandemic "might" have been managed better.

The problem is not enough studies have been made in important areas to categorically state an answer. For instance "if" I had been categorically told it was proven that a 52 year old male diabetic with an HBA1c of under whatever number was at no more risk than the rest of the population then I wouldn't have left work.

Same with this "do they" don't they" debate on whether children spread the virus. "If" children over 6 years old spread the virus then the argument could be why wasn't masks wearing made mandatory in children months ago? The other side of the coin would be "can" children of a young age, between say 6 and 10 be able to wear masks for a length of time? As many of us will point out, it is a pain wearing them for six hours or more and most of us probably do the wrong thing with them anyway, like taking them off, putting them back on, etc etc, so how is a 6 year old going to cope? On top of that it's possible, although I doubt it, that children under a certain age don't spread the virus, but this panicked governmental decision suggests that they do, unless as I say the particular studies haven't been done properly.

I find it staggering that months into this pandemic studies are still a wishy washy, dunno, maybe, possibly. How on earth can you do anything proactive or deal with the situation if you just don't know?!
Unfortunately it is not possible to have definite answers to all questions however important the answers might be. We don't know the cause of diabetes for example. This is made particularly difficult in medical matters by ethical considerations. Ideally they could have a class of children and a teacher, introduce someone with the virus and see if and how it spread, and then try with a class wearing masks. That's not going to happen.
 

hankjam

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I'm not holding my breath for any "illuminating" public inquiries....
Response plans were never in place and so always reacting. For it to happen again..... though it never really went away.
 

Max68

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Unfortunately it is not possible to have definite answers to all questions however important the answers might be. We don't know the cause of diabetes for example. This is made particularly difficult in medical matters by ethical considerations. Ideally they could have a class of children and a teacher, introduce someone with the virus and see if and how it spread, and then try with a class wearing masks. That's not going to happen.

That's very true but I just think they could have more data than they do. For instance it's apparently pretty well known that children spread the flu easily, so you would expect some form of data re children and Covid. Not sure but is Macron's mask suggestion based on numbers in France re infection in schools? Maybe we are just not given this data. If within a few months they could find out that rather than just droplets from sneezing and coughing it was in fact also spread in the air, I am sure they can ascertain other uncertainties to an extent.

Incidentally I read this earlier. Not sure if true, but paints a picture if so.

Global Flu deaths circa 350,000 - 500,000.

Current C19 deaths 1,100,000 after 8 months ish as a global average.... "with" all the lockdowns / measures.
 

DCUKMod

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That's very true but I just think they could have more data than they do. For instance it's apparently pretty well known that children spread the flu easily, so you would expect some form of data re children and Covid. Not sure but is Macron's mask suggestion based on numbers in France re infection in schools? Maybe we are just not given this data. If within a few months they could find out that rather than just droplets from sneezing and coughing it was in fact also spread in the air, I am sure they can ascertain other uncertainties to an extent.

Incidentally I read this earlier. Not sure if true, but paints a picture if so.

Global Flu deaths circa 350,000 - 500,000.

Current C19 deaths 1,100,000 after 8 months ish as a global average.... "with" all the lockdowns / measures.

It may paint picture, but the definition of a COVID death is critical, and I think we must all admit out own, in UK is flawed at best.

I'm not saying this current predicament is a walk in the park or minimising the impacts on the whole population, but data without definition are just numbers, in my view.
 
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Max68

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It may paint picture, but the definition of a COVID death is critical, and I think we must all admit out own, in UK is flawed at best.

I'm not saying this current predicament is a walk in the park r minimising the impacts on the whole population, but data without definition are just numbers, in my view.

Very true. That's why I say to manage this pandemic we need correct data and studies as much as possible.
 
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