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Reversing diabetes

Discussion in 'Type 2 Diabetes' started by Dudette1, Dec 1, 2020.

  1. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Hi @Dudette1 if I may say you are "young", so over time it might get harder to push the envelope. Your 4.8 to 5.8 is similar to my response after meals. I believe low carb / keto / carnivore is a virtual "cure" for the significant majority in a context that empowers this. If you were living in a Amazon tribe, potatoes, pasta etc would not exist, so impossible to get a spike from them; however there are some indigenous populations that have been proven to eat high carb. The difference is that they never at the modern foods which "break" our systems. Once broken it appears to me that a degree of memory of carb intolerance is present, which can be tested individually.

    I have tried various combinations of exercise and have settled for prioritising muscle building as a further mechanism for improving insulin response and general health (Gabrielle Lyon,Ted Naimen, Shawn Baker, Jamie Seaman) - muscle is the biggest organ in the body and a glucose sync which can independently take up glucose. I am suggesting that putting on the right type of weight is a good strategy, as traditional "weight" loss tends to take muscle and bone density as well as fat. I am only 7-8 kg down on my Type 2 diagnosed weight (at one stage 18 kg), I have put on lots of muscle and my fbg is down with less exercise. There are also studies which link muscle mass and strength to longevity (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4035379/ https://www.news-medical.net/news/2...for-predicting-longevity-in-older-people.aspx https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...longer-life-expectancy-increase-a8511491.html)

    There is a mainstream view on this site predominantly, and individualised perspective. Mine is shaped by a physically painful version of diabetes along with seeing what this disease did to both of my best friends parents. We do not have routine insulin monitoring, so have minimal clue (unless keytone monitoring is being used as proxy) as to what is going on, but at a minimum vigilance with post postprandial glucose is something.
     
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  2. masonap

    masonap Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I think total remission is impossible. Once a type 2 always a type 2, however, I do believe that you can control it very well on a low carb diet, and exercise, especially if you are somewhere close to a normal weight for your size and age. Do not think that you can eat things like chocolate, biscuits or cakes. You should be able to have something ‘extra’ or ‘special’ if you are doing strenuous exercise, for example a few weeks ago I did a 20 mile sponsored walk and needed something extra to keep me going, but I wouldn’t repeat it on another more ‘normal’ day.
     
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  3. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    These records are accurate:
    upload_2020-12-3_23-30-6.png

    upload_2020-12-3_23-31-56.png

    My avatar graph is a typical for many on this site and like the above are official NHS documentation. I am nowhere near the mid 75 kilograms meant to be normal, like protein requirements, weight measurements are out of date, waist to height ratio is much more telling. Treats are eaten everday, possibly 2 or 3 times; my wife told me her Grandad used to get an orange at Christmas as a sweet treat in comparison. Modern living provides the previous Christmas experience at every opportunity.

    I think a debate on what is normal would be interesting. I think the mind would say modern ultra processed foods are normal in the context of mainstream eating. I am sure peoples pancreas, liver, kidneys, heart and fat cells would probably like to overrule the brains thoughts.

    Food like "treats", people with un-diagnosed diabetes eat these without a CGM monitoring what the response is. Where non diabetics have been tested on cereals they tend to spike past the 7.8 cut off:

    https://lilynicholsrdn.com/cgm-experiment-non-diabetic-continuous-glucose-monitor:

    upload_2020-12-3_23-52-27.png

    I suspect many who think a food like choice is ok would be in for a surprise. This matters as non-diabetics can and do get some of the complications of full blown diabetes and it wouldn;t be a surprise if it is the spikes, like the non-diabetic lady in the link experienced with rice and oatmeal.
     
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  4. LaoDan

    LaoDan Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I think it’s possible for some, I’m going to try
     
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  5. DCB 2

    DCB 2 Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Go for it .....
     
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  6. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    For me, though, normal has never been high carb. All my life I was naturally better off low carb, with the doctors and all advice being lower your fat eat more carbs, which made me feel unwell, and when combined with low calorie, absolutely dire.
    I eat a maximum of 40 gm of carbs not to keep diabetes at bay, that is just the consequences, but because it makes me feel on top form.
     
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  7. KK123

    KK123 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I don't really think of it in terms of low carb or high carb or 'gluttonous eating'. although all that may affect things. When I was first diagnosed (and I am only talking food here, not types and the differences there), my go to foods (especially working shifts) was always baked beans on (thick) slices of wholemeal toast! Eek! My calories on those days would have been no more than around 1200, with NO snacks and quite often that would be the only meal of the day. Regardless of that, my glucose levels would rise to ginormous levels (around 30!!!!) whenever I had that meal which I only found out after diagnosis when I was experimenting with how certain food affected me. I know this was because of a lack of insulin but the point I am making is that every single person diagnosed with diabetes MUST have a body that has a 'flaw' in it, ie, it simply cannot cope with an excess of carbs whether the excess is 50 a day or 500 and so will always be vulnerable to diabetes.
     
  8. LaoDan

    LaoDan Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I respectfully disagree, by some estimates, some large percentage, say %70, of all Americans are walking around with pre or full on diabetes, does this make them all genetically flawed? Or is it simply a product of the environment?

    I think if you’re caught early enough, eat as per your design, it is possible to be cured.

    if cure is defined by being able to eat pasta again, when you’re not designed to, then no
     
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  9. Angengray

    Angengray · Member

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    I turned my type 2 around in just under a year with low carb low sugar meals and daily exercise lost 3 and a half stone. Was really tough at times but managed to find healthy alternatives for nearly all the food I love. I did an awful lot of testing and still do with all new foods i try. All my readings are now within normal ranges and off medication now for 6 months. My next hba1c is due soon so fingers crossed its still below prediabetes levels. I agree once type 2 always type 2 and will be a continuous fight but life is important and I cherish it. Mind over matter. If i can do it anyone can. To be fair my joints are not brilliant but maybe my age could be something to do with it? 57 I probably need to find a different forum now with joint related issues for some more tips x
     
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  10. KK123

    KK123 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi Lao, (it's good to disagree and have different opinions, that's the beauty of this site). The reason I suspect that is because in the UK for example, there are around 4 million diabetics out of 70 million people all in the 'same' environment. I do think the environment may contribute but I also think a person's physiology, so called 'lifestyle, DNA etc ALL contribute, hence my 'flaw' comment. Otherwise wouldn't just about everybody have it?
     
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  11. LaoDan

    LaoDan Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I included pre diabetes for arguments sake.. 88 million American adults—approximately 1 in 3—have prediabetes.

    https://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/library/features/diabetes-stat-report.html

    To me that points more towards environment.
     
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  12. KK123

    KK123 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Wow, what an achievement, well done. (I'm not a fan of the phrase 'if I can do it, anyone can' because we are ALL so very different with different circumstances, background, other challenges, mental health issues etc but I DO get your point. x
     
  13. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Are you doing resistance exercise, this might sound counter intuitive. Prior to getting diagnosed I just accepted lower back pain (didn't listen to my physio wife...learnt my lesson later on...and many other things), and I used to have problems around the medial quads / knee area; if I was walking up the escalators on the London Tube, the stepping up motion would make my knee collapse, leaving me hobbling and a pain sensation.

    I now have a strong back and no knee pain what so ever. I am not saying resistance training cures the underlying condition, but if your joints are better supported by the muscles around them, this may provide a virtual or actual cure. My lower back problems were due to an imbalance caused by too many sit-ups and no opposing muscle group counter balance exercises.
     
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  14. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    I have thoughts along this line as the biggest driver of non-communicable diseases. Where there was previously restrictions let's say 10 nutritionally dense options and some tubers and wild fruit, those populations have no Type 2, heart disease, hypertension (even into old age), tend to be lean. Once these populations get exposure to the same food choices / ingredients that we have they get the same medical issues we do - reverse these populations back to their ancestral eating and disease goes away (Aborigines - https://paleodiabetic.com/2012/03/1...dy-on-return-to-ancestral-diet-and-lifestyle/)
     
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  15. DCB 2

    DCB 2 Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Hi LaoDan

    You hit the nail on the head, I believe the key to reverse diabetes is early detection and life style changes(diet and exercise), preventing damage to ones pancreas. The meds provide a bridge to help someone to achieve that goal but in long run a person must make lifestyle changes to sustain good bg levels.

    In my case diabetes has a strong genetic link, it runs in my Dad's family and had relatives who have suffered amputations and one one who died from kidney failure. Being 60 lbs over weight with no exercise and poor diet did not help matters.

    Reversing diabetes or having it remission a person needs to still need to be vigilant and be careful with the carbs and in my case exercise to maintain the good levels. I have gotten to remission by losing 60 lbs, eating a good diet, and regular exercise.

    I will be always a diabetic, but now I control it instead of it controlling me.

    Dave
     
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    #35 DCB 2, Dec 5, 2020 at 3:26 PM
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2020
  16. clare56

    clare56 Type 2 · Member

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    Hi Dudette1,

    I'm also searching for if and how I can stay in remission and consider my diabetes reversed, for good.

    I was in remission - and my GP's notes said Diabetes reversed - a couple of years ago, after following a very low carb diet. I found a low carb diet suited me for ages. I was even able to go on holiday and eat what I liked then follow a week's strict diet afterwards, which worked fine. My blood sugar levels did rise on eating carbs, but they went down quickly.

    However, after 18months when I went off track and put weight on, I wasn't surprised to be back in the diabetic range. My doctor wanted to put me on medication, but gave me 3 months to try and control the diabetes by diet. And it's worked, but I feel diabetes is lurking. I'm sure that if I could lose more weight I could have more flexibility in my lifestyle and diet, but at the moment I can't shift it!

    I have found that, for me, a daily cycle of about an hour really lowers my blood sugar so I suspect my best bet is a low carb diet and if I want something like bread or potatoes (which I so, so miss) I have to get on my bike straight afterwards.
     
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  17. Dudette1

    Dudette1 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It’s just a curious thought, I know they say remission, but what if someone’s levels came down, no meds, then they go back to eating as before and it never for the rest of there life comes back into abnormal ranges, surely that would be cured. I love everyone’s thoughts and opinions it’s a horrible yet very interesting topic. If no one did it and was followed, how would we ever know. I’m in no way telling anyone they should try it, I was 17stone 7lb on diagnosis, I’m now 11st 7lbs as of today..at first I put an app on my phone called lose it and stayed within my calorie budget, then these past 3 months I’ve done low carb.. my ideal weight for my size and age is 11st 5lb.. I will never let myself get to that 17stone size again. I walk around 7-10 miles a day, I tell everyone my dog saved my life, he is the reason I go out waking all over the countryside and because of his breed he needs a lot of walking,it’s the best thing I ever did. I must admit I feel better in myself and not to toot my own horn but I look amazing.. but like anyone I still get the cravings sometimes and think I just want chips or mash potatoes..although I’m not as hungry as I used to be when eating constant carbs so it’s a bonus, but no matter what anyone tells me, beef stew is not the same without Yorkshire puddings and mash. That’s what I miss the most, the carbs that compliment a meal. I find myself getting bored with meals as no matter what, I look at the plate and think wow what a pile of s**t I’m sure many of us have those moments.
    But we have this, and we don’t want complications so we do what is right. Still it’s an interesting thought..
    My next hba1c isn’t till February so will let you guys know, it was 43 the last time and I had just started low carb, my numbers have been even better the longer I have gone on so hoping for better hba1c results next time..thanks for all your views it’s been an interesting read
     
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  18. Donought

    Donought · Member

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    I've really enjoyed reading all the posts in this thread and totally understood what you meant from your first post. I've no answer as I'm just starting out on this journey but I think it's possible, with maybe a whole food plant based diet. At the moment I'm so ****** confused. I read low carb/ high fibre which is what I'm doing although I'm also high fat. I don't eat meat anyway so that's not an issue. But then I look at the whole foods plant based stuff and they're all low fat. So many contradictory things out there. My endo said no bread, potatoes or pasta or derivatives thereof such as crisis, chips etc, which I've stuck to. Strangely he said rice was ok but I've just had some egg fried rice (homemade basmati) and I was 6.4 before then up to 7.9 at 60 mins. I only have insulin resistance at the moment but will. I'm thinking rice is now off the list, ******. My endo also said life is too short to suffer so if the Yorkshires are going to make your meal much better then have those but not the mash. Obviously not everyday ;)


    Edited by moderator for language
     
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    #38 Donought, Dec 6, 2020 at 8:17 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 6, 2020
  19. Dudette1

    Dudette1 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I also eat high fat, I do eat lots of meat, think most of my fibre comes from almond milk, I’m addicted to the stuff, I could never drink cows milk now.. I like the Yorkshire pudding comment I’m going to do it. Not today but maybe when I next have a hearty meal..
    Rice is also off the menu I’m afraid, cauliflower rice is the other option, I thought I would hate it, but seasoned with salt it’s actually not bad at all. it’s all very daunting at first, I felt like it was the end of the world and was so unhappy, but like everything, put my big girl pants on and suck it up ha!
     
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  20. KK123

    KK123 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    or your not so big girl pants! Well done. x
     
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