Reversing Type 2 diabetes

[NewTD2]

My endo would prefer to use the term “remission” rather than reversed.

She said when your HBA1c is between 32-42, you are in remission.

20-33 is non diabetic.

43-48 is considered high and pre-diabetic.

 

[Bluetit1802]

My endo would prefer to use the term “remission” rather than reversed.

She said when your HBA1c is between 32-42, you are in remission.

20-33 is non diabetic.

43-48 is considered high and pre-diabetic.

Did you mishear her, or have you made a typing error?

 

[simsussex_]

Just got my latest hba1c - 34 so been in remission for a year on lchf. Question is, can beta cells repair themselves over time?

 

[kokhongw]

Just got my latest hba1c - 34 so been in remission for a year on lchf. Question is, can beta cells repair themselves over time?

This presentation says yes...but rather slowly...

 

[NewTD2]

Just got my latest hba1c - 34 so been in remission for a year on lchf. Question is, can beta cells repair themselves over time?

According to medical research, beta cells can regenerate over time by taking food supplements like black cumin seed (Nigella Sativa) or eating bitter melon (Karela/ Ampalaya) vegetable etc.

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1984-82502015000100001

 

[Oldvatr]

Just got my latest hba1c - 34 so been in remission for a year on lchf. Question is, can beta cells repair themselves over time?

As I understand things, Beta Cells come from stem cells that get programmed for that functon shortly after conception. It seems to be a one off activity, and so far all experiments for T1D using different techniques to either activate unprogrammed stem cells that we already have, or to induce external stem cells or even force feed active beta cells has not yet led to a cure for T1D, let alone T2D et al. So what we get born with is our best shot at present.

Can they be repaired? Not sure. Certainly there seems to be evidence growing that show Insulin Resistance can be reduced by lifestyle changes, but this may be from removing the symptom of IR rather than making defunct beta cells work again.

Until we get a better understanding of what actually causes IR then this question remains a connundrum. However, using the lifestyle changes to keep diabetes in control is not a major burden to carry for the benefits it gives us. So by using an LC diet ( carb or calorie) and other techniques such as fasting, then this will buy time during which the scientists will beaver away and hopefully solve the riddle of whether Diabetes can be cured or not.

I am currently in Remission, and can happily report that for me, my IR has certainly inproved, but I still consider myself a PWD (Puss with Diabetes).

 

[Oldvatr]

According to medical research, beta cells can regenerate over time by taking food supplements like black cumin seed (Nigella Sativa) or eating bitter melon (Karela/ Ampalaya) vegetable etc.

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1984-82502015000100001

Oh Dear. More Phytochemical ju-ju and mystic meg strikes again. The study of phytochemicals is a myth as far as mainstream endocrinology is concerned, and it so far remains in the realm of nutrition/ fitness/ / body building/ naturalist magazines and vloggers. I think if these supplements really did work then Big Pharma would have bought out the rights to use them a long time ago. But that is not even on the horizon, even in Asia, where there is a large user base for them. There has been no study that I could find that provided evidence of beta cell growth or repair or regeneration,

Question. How does one measure beta cell regrowth? MRI scans have not managed to measure beta cell mass or density, and all we have is C=Peptide output to measure. This shows that maybe more insulin is produced but that may be due to stressing the pancreas harder, aka sulfonylurea drugs do and is not IMO proof of more or better beta cells. Currently it is done post mortem, but then that makes calculating a delta change somewhat problematic. Again, if this was actually going on, then T1D would benefit considerably and could claim a cure. Wonder why that has not happened yet????

As one who has used many of these supplements, I did find a small effect from some of them. But the effect was less than I get from Metformin, and there are also side effects from supplements too. I mean, Bitten Melon is 'prescribed' for easing constipation in India. It is easy to make a claim for beta cell growth or repair in a sales pitch, but a bit more different proving it as a physical reality in vivo. Nope, IMHO the case for these is unproven, and I am now saving myself oodles of moolah by making other lifestyle changes that really DO work (for me as an (n=1) candidate)

 

[bulkbiker]

According to medical research, beta cells can regenerate over time by taking food supplements like black cumin seed (Nigella Sativa) or eating bitter melon (Karela/ Ampalaya) vegetable etc.

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1984-82502015000100001

Oh dear
That whole study seems geared to "treating" Type 1 with these plants... I think some of our more vocal Type 1's may have something interesting to add to that discussion...

 

[rab5]

As I understand things, Beta Cells come from stem cells that get programmed for that functon shortly after conception. It seems to be a one off activity, and so far all experiments for T1D using different techniques to either activate unprogrammed stem cells that we already have, or to induce external stem cells or even force feed active beta cells has not yet led to a cure for T1D, let alone T2D et al. So what we get born with is our best shot at present.

Can they be repaired? Not sure. Certainly there seems to be evidence growing that show Insulin Resistance can be reduced by lifestyle changes, but this may be from removing the symptom of IR rather than making defunct beta cells work again.

Until we get a better understanding of what actually causes IR then this question remains a connundrum. However, using the lifestyle changes to keep diabetes in control is not a major burden to carry for the benefits it gives us. So by using an LC diet ( carb or calorie) and other techniques such as fasting, then this will buy time during which the scientists will beaver away and hopefully solve the riddle of whether Diabetes can be cured or not.

I am currently in Remission, and can happily report that for me, my IR has certainly inproved, but I still consider myself a PWD (Puss with Diabetes).

How shortly after conception are these beta cells programmed

 

[rab5]

I found it. It’s 4 weeks

 

[therower]

BRAZIL!!!!!!!!!!
It's given us the legendary Pele,
the stunning Adriana Lima ( Victoria's Secret angels ) for any one interested,
a " stylish haircut for the more discerning individual "

and now

A Cure for Type 1 diabetes !!!!!!!! . Come on the rest of the world catch up. We have a cure.

Looks like Holland and Barrett's will be laughing all the way to the bank.
Apologies NewTD2. Thank you for posting the article but until either I or another T1 can say we no longer need to inject insulin I will have to be rather sceptical, as I have been with quite a few other breakthroughs that never quite materialised.

 

[Oldvatr]

BRAZIL!!!!!!!!!!
It's given us the legendary Pele,
the stunning Adriana Lima ( Victoria's Secret angels ) for any one interested,
a " stylish haircut for the more discerning individual "

and now

A Cure for Type 1 diabetes !!!!!!!! . Come on the rest of the world catch up. We have a cure.

Looks like Holland and Barrett's will be laughing all the way to the bank.
Apologies NewTD2. Thank you for posting the article but until either I or another T1 can say we no longer need to inject insulin I will have to be rather sceptical, as I have been with quite a few other breakthroughs that never quite materialised.

Naughty but nice

You forgot the Nuts!

 

[Jenny15]

According to medical research, beta cells can regenerate over time by taking food supplements like black cumin seed (Nigella Sativa) or eating bitter melon (Karela/ Ampalaya) vegetable etc.

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1984-82502015000100001

I know you mean well, but you may want to exercise caution when posting about topics like this one. Diabetes care online is rife with false and misleading claims that can lead to financial losses, unnecessary stress, and even serious medical issues that can go undiagnosed and untreated.

In the Greetings & Introductions subforum there is a sticky thread about the forum rules and ethos, and this issue is explained thoroughly there.

 

[NewTD2]

Oh Dear. More Phytochemical ju-ju and mystic meg strikes again. The study of phytochemicals is a myth as far as mainstream endocrinology is concerned, and it so far remains in the realm of nutrition/ fitness/ / body building/ naturalist magazines and vloggers. I think if these supplements really did work then Big Pharma would have bought out the rights to use them a long time ago. But that is not even on the horizon, even in Asia, where there is a large user base for them. There has been no study that I could find that provided evidence of beta cell growth or repair or regeneration,

Question. How does one measure beta cell regrowth? MRI scans have not managed to measure beta cell mass or density, and all we have is C=Peptide output to measure. This shows that maybe more insulin is produced but that may be due to stressing the pancreas harder, aka sulfonylurea drugs do and is not IMO proof of more or better beta cells. Currently it is done post mortem, but then that makes calculating a delta change somewhat problematic. Again, if this was actually going on, then T1D would benefit considerably and could claim a cure. Wonder why that has not happened yet????

As one who has used many of these supplements, I did find a small effect from some of them. But the effect was less than I get from Metformin, and there are also side effects from supplements too. I mean, Bitten Melon is 'prescribed' for easing constipation in India. It is easy to make a claim for beta cell growth or repair in a sales pitch, but a bit more different proving it as a physical reality in vivo. Nope, IMHO the case for these is unproven, and I am now saving myself oodles of moolah by making other lifestyle changes that really DO work (for me as an (n=1) candidate)

There is no cure for T1D because if you read your medical books carefully, T1 is an autoimmune disease

Oh dear
That whole study seems geared to "treating" Type 1 with these plants... I think some of our more vocal Type 1's may have something interesting to add to that discussion...

I know you mean well, but you may want to exercise caution when posting about topics like this one. Diabetes care online is rife with false and misleading claims that can lead to financial losses, unnecessary stress, and even serious medical issues that can go undiagnosed and untreated.

In the Greetings & Introductions subforum there is a sticky thread about the forum rules and ethos, and this issue is explained thoroughly there.

I’ve had enough of this to be honest.

Why is there so much negativity about medical research in this forum?

And I’m not saying that T1s and T2s should and must take these supplements. We are all different and it’s an individual”s choice.

If you don’t want, ignore it for goodness sake!

 

[Jenny15]

There is no cure for T1D because if you read your medical books carefully, T1 is an autoimmune disease



I’ve had enough of this to be honest.

Why is there so much negativity about medical research in this forum?

And I’m not saying that T1s and T2s should and must take these supplements. We are all different and it’s an individual”s choice.

If you don’t want, ignore it for goodness sake!

I didn't respond for myself, I responded for new forum members who are often not fully aware of the pitfalls of believing everything they read online.

I'm not negative about medical research, I swear by it and my life depends on it. I am negative about posts that are worded in a way that can be easily misunderstood and cause issues for people.

I can't speak for the others who responded to your post but at least I was (very) courteous and constructive, and I referred you to a well worded explanation that supports my view. Up to you how you use that info.

Edited for a typo

 

[Jenny15]

According to medical research, beta cells can regenerate over time by taking food supplements like black cumin seed (Nigella Sativa) or eating bitter melon (Karela/ Ampalaya) vegetable etc.

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1984-82502015000100001

Initially I disregarded this research report because I knew there have been claims these plants can regenerate beta cells but I've never seen credible, robust research demonstrating that.

I've now read the report's abstract, methodology and conclusion.

I recommend if people want to know the report's findings, read the conclusion only. Normally you can do that by reading the abstract, but not in this case. I suspect the university in Iran and the journal in Brazil have different standards than what I am used to.

The report's conclusion does not say that taking these supplements has been shown to regenerate pancreatic beta cells.

IMO, the report is "medical research" because it was written by medical researchers but it is a prospective literature review only. In medical practice in the UK and NZ, medical doctors are trained to assess the veracity of treatment claims. Laypeople like us can learn that too.

 

[zand]

In medical practice in the UK and NZ, medical doctors are trained to assess the veracity of treatment claims.

They don't do so well in testing the truth in the success of the Eatwell Plate for T2s ...just saying..

 

[Jenny15]

They don't do so well in testing the truth in the success of the Eatwell Plate for T2s ...just saying..

Separate issue, obviously. Did you find the report about the supplements compelling?

 

[zand]

Separate issue, obviously. Did you find the report about the supplements compelling?

Didn't read it as I have enough supplements to go on with for the time being. I did make a note of them for future use though and will research more if and when I need to do so.

 

[Jenny15]

Didn't read it as I have enough supplements to go on with for the time being. I did make a note of them for future use though and will research more if and when I need to do so.

I agree that despite being recommended to everyone, the EatUnwell plate is patently rubbish for T2 diabetics who have more than say 5 years of remaining life expectancy at diagnosis (I had about 40 years left so had to learn about carbs), but it is useful for some other patient groups such as people with anorexia nervosa or cancer anorexia cachexia for example.

That's what I meant by doctors assessing the veracity of treatment claims... it's not that a treatment approach is either "truth" or not, it's about a doctor choosing the most appropriate treatment options to offer a particular patient.

If a T1 diabetic who is managing their condition well asks her GP about plant supplement x because she heard it *may* protect the last few beta cells a little, a good GP will say "I'm glad you asked, because we should always consider the safety of a treatment, which I think is fine for this one. I'm not convinced it will do much but if you want to give it a try, that seems OK to me."

A not very good GP will say "I've never heard of it and I think you're wasting your money and who knows it might be harmful" or "Yes, take Formula X and in fact, take these 3 other products (that I happen to have shares in) that will blow your family's food budget, give you indigestion and protect nothing more than my bank account."