Reversing Type 2 Diabetes

Stephen, they ate a lot more wheat in earlier times,

there may be an argument that the type has changed but if this applies to the world please explain why countries including France, Italy and Rumania that eat a great deal more wheat than the UK and more than US have far less obsesity.

Yes - they ate more wheat in the 19th Century (about 12 slices of bread a day at peak), when America was basically an agrarian society, where regular access to meat was limited. As you can see from the graph above, it was also an almost sugar free environment.

It's obviously very difficult to compare this with a post-industrialised society, where access to all food-stuffs is more or less unlimited.

From the data we have:
In 1870
37g of Sugar Carbs
197g of Wheat Carbs
__________________
234g refined carbohydrate

In 2000
134g of Wheat Carbs
124g of Sugar Carbs
------------------------
258g refined carbohydrate

(If you added 24g a day of refined carbohydrate to your diet, without adding any exercise, it'd be worth about 10lbs of fat, over the course of a year).

So even compared to an agricultural society, in which people were largely employed doing energy intensive manual labour, in the US they are still eating 10% more refined carbohydrates than at the peak of wheat consumption (plus lots of animal protein and fats that would have not been avaiable then).

In the above calculation I'm being generous by assuming that the "soft wheat" of 1870 is identical to the highly refined "hard wheat" that we eat now.

And for comparison purposes:

1970
98g of Wheat Carbs
100g of Sugar Carbs
------------------------
198g of refined carbohydrate

So that's a 30% increase between 1970 and now.

Defren said:

borofergie said:

The great thing here is that the "Wheat Flour Use" graph maps almost exactly on top of the "Total Carbohydrate" graph.

• Between 65 and 97 the Total Carbohydrate Consumption per person went up by just over 100g.
• Between 65 and 97 the Wheat Flour Consumption went up by around 50lbs per person per year, which is about 50g per day.
• 50g of wheat flour contains about 36g of carbs, so 36% of the increase in carbohydrate intake is directly attributable to wheat (probably pasta and bread).

No matter what happened to the quantity (I think that it probably increased), the quality of carbohydrates decreased significantly during the obesity epidemic.

Click to expand...

It's statistics like these that make me want wheat added to things like the post given to newbies. If people are not aware of where carbs hide, wheat could be a food item that is still eaten in high quantities. I am not using this as a platform to shout my own misgivings about wheat and grain, but as an educational tool for newly diagnosed, the same as bread, potato's, rice and pasta.

Click to expand...

There is a danger in overwhelming the newly daignosed by too much information and too many "don''ts.
I have been thinking for some time that there could be an initial post for new members and then another for those who wish to know more . Members could decide for themselves, of course,whether or when to take it further.
Some will want to know as much as possible right away, others will find the basic information more than enough to cope with.

Unbeliever said:

There is a danger in overwhelming the newly daignosed by too much information and too many "don''ts.
I have been thinking for some time that there could be an initial post for new members and then another for those who wish to know more . Members could decide for themselves, of course,whether or when to take it further.
Some will want to know as much as possible right away, others will find the basic information more than enough to cope with.

Click to expand...

I agree, but there is an underlying logic:
1) Nothing from grains (especially flour)
2) Nothing with sugar
3) Limited vegetable starches (potatoes etc)
4) Limited fruits (excluding berries)

That's a pretty good prescription for a low-carb diet, don't you think?

Yes I do agree of course, It is an excellent prescription for a low carb diet but would probably deter many newly diagnosed .

I am merely suggesting that we be gentle with them. Those made of sterner stuff could go to Part Two.

How many posts do we see asking "What is there left to eat"? Not everyone has the same will power.

Certainly make the information readily available but a long list of prohibitions may be counterproductive.

phoenix said:

there may be an argument that the type has changed but if this applies to the world please explain why countries including France, Italy and Rumania that eat a great deal more wheat than the UK and more than US have far less obsesity.

Click to expand...

Maybe it's because even if they are far less obese they eat far more wheat as you suggest and consequently have higher rates of diabetes than the UK. The IDF 2010 comparative % of the population of countries who are diabetic:

http://archive.diabetesatlas.org/map

UK 4.9%
France 6.7%
Italy 5.9%
Romania 6.9%

I don't know how anybody else feels but I think that this thread deserves to be a "sticky" kept at the top of the page. The information and discussion therein is superb and I would hate to see it disappear gradually down the page.

Anyone agree?

xyzzy said:

phoenix said:

there may be an argument that the type has changed but if this applies to the world please explain why countries including France, Italy and Rumania that eat a great deal more wheat than the UK and more than US have far less obsesity.

Click to expand...

Maybe it's because even if they are far less obese they eat far more wheat as you suggest and consequently have higher rates of diabetes than the UK. The IDF 2010 comparative % of the population of countries who are diabetic:

http://archive.diabetesatlas.org/map
UK 4.9%
France 6.7%
Italy 5.9%
Romania 6.9%

Click to expand...

Trouble is we really don't know how accurate the figures are

S t u d i e s f r o m s e v e r a l E u r o p e a n c o u n t r i e s
– France, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Slovenia
a n d t h e U n i t e d K i n g d o m – o n l y p r o v i d e d
self-reported data on diabetes. To account for u n d i a g n o s e d d i a b e t e s , t h e p r e v a l e n c e o f
diabetes for the United Kingdom was multiplied by a factor of 1.5, in accordance with local recommendations, and doubled for other countries,based on data from a number of countries

Click to expand...

not my formatting!
http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/docserver/ ... 96B029E871

I cannot understand why the UK should think that they only had to multiply by 1.5 to account for undiagnosed diabetes where everywhere else in Europe thought it necessary to multiply by 2. It's not as if people in the UK are automatically screened for diabetes, whereas there are some systematic health checks here (though not taken up by all)

The French figure doesn't accord with the figures issued by the Social Security here .
La prévalence du diabète a été estimée à 4,4% de la population résidant en France (source 2.1).
(this may not include people who don't receive any medication)

ladybird64 said:

I don't know how anybody else feels but I think that this thread deserves to be a "sticky" kept at the top of the page. The information and discussion therein is superb and I would hate to see it disappear gradually down the page.

Anyone agree?

Click to expand...

I agree :thumbup:

Wow I have a lot of reading to do here , but I am posting this first ..

Ok I was diagnosed Type II last March , my initial fasting BG Level was 13.8 the Doctor put me on Byetta Straight away and 2000 Mg of Metformin a day and 20Mg Simvastatin at this point I was 20 stone 7 although I had previously weighed just under 22 stone ..
Being told that I was Type II and the way had felt in the months before I was Diagnosed really hit me hard ..

So after advise I really went to work on my Diet and started cycling the weight loss was really fast , but Cycling took a hit when I got Shingles ouch !! ..

Any way when I had my First HABC1 test I was fine in the better side of the good range and my nurse was impressed to say the least , after my shingles cleared I hit the cycling again building up with a gentle ride to work and then a bit more pushing on Saturday .

When I had my next Habc1 again I was in the better side of the good zone and my weight was now close to my Ideal Weight I was cycling around 80 miles a week and feeling alert and with it more than I had for a good few years

Ive stuck to a reasonable healthy Diet avoid the **** the best I can I'm riding everyday more or less and at present my weekly Avg is 180 miles and my BG levels are always between 3.6 and 6.9 for a high one I'm eating like a horse and my body is dealing with it .

My Diabetic Nurse informs me that we are more than likely looking at reversing it for me , so I am off to give my Blood sample on Friday and then when I'm called in we are more than likely going to stop taking the Byetta and then later on reduce the Metformin and take it from there and hopefully stop the lot , my Diabetic team are very happy with my progress and feel we are moving towards a reversal ..

so I guess for me personally the Diabetes has been a godsend a blessing in disguise and my whole life has changed but I feel no hardship , other people I know who are Type II are always moaning but they don't really follow the advise they are given yet then want to moan what a hardship it is for them go figure ...

I always eat my five a day , but then I always have love my fruit , not so great with the Veg , and I avoid Sugar best I can with in reason I eat a amazing amount of carbs , Eating a whole portion of chips and two slices of bread doesn't really get my Levels up more than 6 if than I'm usually still in the early 5`s ..

Ive ridden two 100K off road biking events and had no problems at all , Ive done a 70mile non stop bike ride on the road no worries just eating 4 Bananas and a Cereal bar on the go ...

I'm quite disciplined with myself but I can make much more of an effort if its going to take me off the meds ..

Fingers crossed , Ill keep you posted now I got some reading to do later Dave

Ladies and Gentlemen:

I would like to revive this very old thread because reversing type 2 diabetes has been my goal since my diagnosis as a type 2 diabetic in July 1991. I wish to make everybody know that I was supposed to be on several anti-diabetes pills due to the fact that my first blood sugar reading was 468 mg/dl. I refused to take them. A friend who was diagnosed ahead of me by about a month told me that the pills he had been taking made him sicker than his t2d.

Long story short, my untreated t2d has always been harmless for more than 24 years.

What have I been doing? I have been running the stairs for no less than 100 minutes/day and eating heart-healthy, natural, and whole foods which are mostly carbohydrates.

Yes, I am very aware that heavy carb meals are bad for me because they create high fasting and post-meal blood sugar levels. I have always been getting them consistently every day since my diagnosis. But they have not harmed me yet. Why? Your guess is as good as mine. Maybe because of my daily exercise.

Bonny Damocles
Male, 79 1/2 years old, 137 lbs., 5'7"
Past A1c's: 5.2% - 6.3% (5.6% in 05/15; 6.0% in 10/14; 6.3% in 04/14)
Not taking any pharma drugs because our family MD said that I don't need them

Im very glad you did there is some interesting posts in here and I didnt even know the thread existed.

kingarnold said:

Ladies and Gentlemen:

I would like to revive this very old thread because reversing type 2 diabetes has been my goal since my diagnosis as a type 2 diabetic in July 1991. I wish to make everybody know that I was supposed to be on several anti-diabetes pills due to the fact that my first blood sugar reading was 468 mg/dl. I refused to take them. A friend who was diagnosed ahead of me by about a month told me that the pills he had been taking made him sicker than his t2d.

Long story short, my untreated t2d has always been harmless for more than 24 years.

What have I been doing? I have been running the stairs for no less than 100 minutes/day and eating heart-healthy, natural, and whole foods which are mostly carbohydrates.

Yes, I am very aware that heavy carb meals are bad for me because they create high fasting and post-meal blood sugar levels. I have always been getting them consistently every day since my diagnosis. But they have not harmed me yet. Why? Your guess is as good as mine. Maybe because of my daily exercise.

Bonny Damocles
Male, 79 1/2 years old, 137 lbs., 5'7"
Past A1c's: 5.2% - 6.3% (5.6% in 05/15; 6.0% in 10/14; 6.3% in 04/14)
Not taking any pharma drugs because our family MD said that I don't need them

Click to expand...

What do you consider "High"? You talk about high levels, at fasting and post-meal; what do those readings look like, or average?

AndBreathe said:

What do you consider "High"? You talk about high levels, at fasting and post-meal; what do those readings look like, or average?

Click to expand...

Thanks for asking. Most of them were between 150 mg/dl and 180 mg/dl, and nearly all of them were between 126 mg/dl and 180 mg/dl which are in the diabetic range.

Congratulations on your excellent A1c results!!! Keep up the good work.

Bonny Damocles

I did it!! I am no longer a type 2 diabetic. I went and seen my dr on Tuesday to tell him the good news, and he was so happy.
All I did was quit drinking pop, totally!! For me that did it.

Well done Im hoping to join you soon

4ratbags said:

Well done Im hoping to join you soon

Click to expand...

Good for you!! I had thought switching to diet pop would be the answer, but it wasn't. I did not increase exercise, and dr took
me off the pills, glyburide, trajenta, and Pioglitazone as I was going hypoglysemic by using them. It kind of surprised me, so I just dropped taking them, and am fine. Sure I spike if I have lots of sugar, normal for anyone. But at the same time I actually decided that I did not like coffee, and totally cut that out as well. Don't miss either one (or three!!)
After another 3 months I will go get a A1C and see if it reflects and it should.