Reversing Type 2 Diabetes

[Defren]

Is the 5 stones 9 included in the ND or is that seperate?

I lost 34.2lbs on Atkins and 48.6lbs on the ND approximately, give or take a pound or two, math is not my strong point. :lol:

 

[SouthernGeneral6512]

Is the 5 stones 9 included in the ND or is that seperate?

I lost 34.2lbs on Atkins and 48.6lbs on the ND approximately, give or take a pound or two, math is not my strong point. :lol:

Wow that's amazing losing all that will have such a positive effect on your health ... how did you find the 2 diets which one was the easier to stick to?

 

[Defren]

Is the 5 stones 9 included in the ND or is that seperate?

I lost 34.2lbs on Atkins and 48.6lbs on the ND approximately, give or take a pound or two, math is not my strong point. :lol:

Wow that's amazing losing all that will have such a positive effect on your health ... how did you find the 2 diets which one was the easier to stick to?

Both have good points to be honest. Atkins is great as you eat real food all the time. I just kept my carbs under 20g a day, but ate all I needed. I did have a real problem with Metformin, it decimated my appetite, I really struggled to eat for a while. The Newcastle diet is easy because it's all there, mix the powder with water and voila! Atkins was hard for me, at that time, due to such a decreased appetite, and I found I could manage the shakes no problem. I did come to miss solid food as I got nearer the end of the 4 weeks pure shakes, but now, just one solid meal a day make a huge difference and I could easily stick to this diet for life if I had to. My appetite is much better, but I have a tiny stomach, and am full in no time at all. I could easily put my main meal on a tea plate then I am stuffed. Today I had an all veg day, 200g of mixed veg, I left about a third, just couldn't eat it all. Less washing up with the ND, that has to be a bonus. :lol:

 

[xyzzy]

Jim like Defren I did a low carb Atkins type diet when I was first diagnosed. Not quite as strict as her so I averaged around 50g carbs per day and still do as at that lintake my blood levels run the same as a non diabetic. I lost just over 50lbs in 4 months and reduced my waist measurement by 10 inches. Effectively you have to take the plunge and believe a low carb higher fat higher protein regime works. I was pretty convinced the low carb bit worked as I could see the way my levels responded. I became 100% convinced when I had a retest of cholesterol levels which showed despite eating loads of cheese, eggs, and bacon and egg fry ups plus swapping back to butter they were normalised for the first time in years in fact my good cholesterol levels had risen dramatically. Likewise from being a high blood pressure sufferer I am now borderline low blood pressure on some days. All of this is in direct opposition to what most newly diagnosed are told. As you can see on this thread I don't necessarily buy the grains thing 100% but the low carb high fat regime concept I undoubtedly do recommend wholeheartedly. You will find if you give up the starch like many of us have that you may get withdrawal and cravings. Just make sure you up other things so you don't get hungry.

 

[Defren]

I agree, a low carb high fat diet is the way to go. My BG's are now really tight, and when I have my HbA1c done 27 of this month, I expect it to be around 5.5, maybe a smidge lower, I will be gutted if it's higher.

You really do drop the pounds by eating as much as you want. It's a really simple diet to follow once you get the hang of it, and one I wholly endorse.

My thoughts are now what to do post diet. I just assumed I would go back onto Atkins, as it works for me, but the Paleo diet is so far more appealing. The issue I have is limited if any dairy, so what I may well do, is Atkins, but keeping all grain out of my diet. Soon I will be at my optimum weight, and then I will have to maintain, and dairy would do that. I also don't think I would want to cut out, or drastically reduce another food group as I have with carbs, so I will probably do Atkins as it works for me, minus all grains.

 

[Paul1976]

I believe our resident 'caveman' on here enjoys a bit of cream from time to time!

 

[Paul1976]

I reckon your next HbA1c will be in the fours Jo! In fact I was going to have a sweepstake on it! :mrgreen:

 

[Defren]

I believe our resident 'caveman' on here enjoys a bit of cream from time to time!

Well remembered, the squirty cream King. :lol:

I still think I will do Atkins minus grains. By this time tomorrow this plan may have changed, I really have no idea what I will do post ND. Maybe replace it with... erm... the ND part 2 :lolno:

Ha ha Paul. I may have agreed with you, but getting a few too many 5's at the moment, and it's mucking up my lovely tidy 4's graph :evil:

 

[borofergie]

My thoughts are now what to do post diet. I just assumed I would go back onto Atkins, as it works for me, but the Paleo diet is so far more appealing. The issue I have is limited if any dairy, so what I may well do, is Atkins, but keeping all grain out of my diet. Soon I will be at my optimum weight, and then I will have to maintain, and dairy would do that. I also don't think I would want to cut out, or drastically reduce another food group as I have with carbs, so I will probably do Atkins as it works for me, minus all grains.

Is there a huge difference between the Atkins diet and a Paleo diet?

If you're eating less than 30g of carb a day (as per Atkins), I can pretty much guarantee that you aren't eating many grains, the only tough bit is eliminating grain oils. The only difficult bit about that is cutting out the mayonnaise.

As a VLCer, I realised I was doint about 95% of Kurt Harris' Archevore diet anyway. I wouldn't worry about dairy (which is step 12 on the list), even KHD admits he eat dairy.

Just eat meat, veg, and eggs, and get lots of sleep and you're sorted.

I'd recommend Robb Wolf's "Paleo Solution" as a funny and readable start. Kurt Harris' blog, and Paul Jaminet's "Perfect Health Diet" are good for the science behind it all.

 

[borofergie]

I believe our resident 'caveman' on here enjoys a bit of cream from time to time!

Well remembered, the squirty cream King. :lol:

Well remembered indeed. I do eat cream, but mainly cos I'm doing keto for my running, and I need to eat about 80% fat, and it's just an easy way of getting the energy on-board. That and the fact I love it.

What I'd really like to try, is low-carb plus "safe-starches" (a bit of sweet-potato), but I'm doing so well on the ketogenic diet (weight loss, running and HbA1c), that I don't want to screw it up. Once I've lost another 20lbs or so, that's where I'll probably try and go for a while.

 

[Grazer]

I reckon your next HbA1c will be in the fours Jo! In fact I was going to have a sweepstake on it! :mrgreen:

I'll have a quid on 5.2!
Wot odds do I get?

 

[Defren]

I reckon your next HbA1c will be in the fours Jo! In fact I was going to have a sweepstake on it! :mrgreen:

I'll have a quid on 5.2!
Wot odds do I get?

What ya gonna do if I don't tell you what my HbA1c is, AND why am I not profiting from this venture? :lol:

 

[Grazer]

I reckon your next HbA1c will be in the fours Jo! In fact I was going to have a sweepstake on it! :mrgreen:

I'll have a quid on 5.2!
Wot odds do I get?

What ya gonna do if I don't tell you what my HbA1c is, AND why am I not profiting from this venture? :lol:

Get on! You'll be desperate to tell us your shiny new HbA1c. And you'll profit through your good health and our good wishes. And if the odds are high enough, you'll profit from the bribe I'll pay you to lie and say it was the figure I bet on!

 

[Defren]

I'll have a quid on 5.2!
Wot odds do I get?

What ya gonna do if I don't tell you what my HbA1c is, AND why am I not profiting from this venture? :lol:

Get on! You'll be desperate to tell us your shiny new HbA1c. And you'll profit through your good health and our good wishes. And if the odds are high enough, you'll profit from the bribe I'll pay you to lie and say it was the figure I bet on!

Ha ha ha, your a wee monkey Sheepy. That really made me laugh. Off to bed now, been a lazy g*t today, so am shattered, my own fault. Goodnight all who are still around.

Joanna.

PS I recon 5.5 :wink:

 

[the east man]

I'd happily pay for my own, and interpret my own results

£200 from here http://www.medichecks.com/index.cfm...me=C Peptide&gclid=CLvph7SwqrACFUYntAodMyyjVw

I think you should think VERY carefully about the psychological impact having the test done could do. If it came back and said you had little beta cell function remaining then unless someone finds a miracle cure you would need to accept your reversal hopes would be dashed. Further that even on your VLC regime that has in all likelihood stopped progression that if that progression is continuing however slowly then at some point your levels will rise assuming nothing else gets you first. I would suggest like most things of a similar nature such as an alzheimer test it is a thing you do after the most careful consideration.

I'm more robust than that. At this point in my diabetic journey I'm pretty disillusioned with a medical profession that fails to understand any of the things that I've done to address my condition. All I ever hear is "don't test", "eat more carbs", "ketones are bad for you", "your Total cholesterol is too high" (I haven't heard the last one yet, but I'm bracing myself for next week). I have next to zero confidence that my Doc could properly interpret a c-pep test, or if he did he'd do so with exactly the same resources as I do, but probably with less than half the enthusiasm.

Every step I've taken so far I've taken on my own, usually doing exactly the opposite of whatever the medical profession told me. That's just the kind of guy I am. If I hadn't taken responsibility for my diabetes, and blindly followed the advice I was given, I'd probably be washing down my low-fat diet with a glass of orange-juice and a hand full of statins and hoping that my next HbA1c would be "Good Enough!".

If I end up as a blind-amputee with kidney failure, at least I'll be able to console myself with the fact that I tried my best, did my own research and didn't blindly put my faith in a medical profession that frankly doesn't give a monkey's about me, or my diabetes.

It's kinda working out so far, don't you think?

:thumbup: Im with you

 

[the east man]

Its taken me 4hrs over the last 2 days to read this thread. Probably the best thread on here. Well done to all who contribuated

 

[borofergie]

So, remember this graph, which is often used to assert that carbohydrate consumption has proportionally decreased (in the UK) during the obesity epidemic (until I updated the data with the blue and red dots):

I speculated that:

I'd bet if you compared the pre-1960s high-carb diet the modern high-carb diet , you'd find the bulk of carbs in the latter was coming from starches and not from grains. You know that as a diabetic, it's much easier to avoid sugars and starches than it is to avoid flour products.

Well take a look at this graph, which I think proves my point. It shows per-capita carbohydrate consumption in the US between 1907 and 1997 along with dietary fibre intake:

You can see a similar trend as in the UK data, in that carbohydrate consumption was apparently high before the war, declined dramatically until the 70s and 80s before increasing rapidly until the end of the millenium.

However, although the carbohydrate intake in 1907 and 1997 is more or less equal, the dietary fibre intake has decreased significantly. This pattern is entirely consistent with my theory that the pre-war carbohydrate spike was fuelled by starches, wheras the 80s/90s carbohydrate spike was fuelled by sugar and refined grain carbohydrates.

Check out this too:

I think that the food habits of the UK are sufficiently influenced by our American friends, for the same things to apply here.

 

[xyzzy]

Well done!

As the skeptic who asked you to show your statement was true I must say I am now pretty much convinced. Not that I expect you to do it but it would be interesting to see if the same pattern applies to India and China. I noticed another thread today that debunked the "Australian Paradox" so presumeably you are now claiming similar graphs for the UK, USA and Australia. Prove it for China and India and show its not the case in some of the less effected countries (Iceland, Sweden etc.) and a Nobel Prize awaits :lol:

 

[borofergie]

The great thing here is that the "Wheat Flour Use" graph maps almost exactly on top of the "Total Carbohydrate" graph.

• Between 65 and 97 the Total Carbohydrate Consumption per person went up by just over 100g.
• Between 65 and 97 the Wheat Flour Consumption went up by around 50lbs per person per year, which is about 50g per day.
• 50g of wheat flour contains about 36g of carbs, so 36% of the increase in carbohydrate intake is directly attributable to wheat (probably pasta and bread).

No matter what happened to the quantity (I think that it probably increased), the quality of carbohydrates decreased significantly during the obesity epidemic.

Here is the same graph for American Sugar consumption:

Between 67 and 97, sugar consumption went up by 30lbs per person, per year, which is about 26g per day.

So that's 60g of carb per person from sugar and wheat flour alone, we haven't even considered any of the other "healthy whole grains" yet.

 

[Defren]

The great thing here is that the "Wheat Flour Use" graph maps almost exactly on top of the "Total Carbohydrate" graph.

• Between 65 and 97 the Total Carbohydrate Consumption per person went up by just over 100g.
• Between 65 and 97 the Wheat Flour Consumption went up by around 50lbs per person per year, which is about 50g per day.
• 50g of wheat flour contains about 36g of carbs, so 36% of the increase in carbohydrate intake is directly attributable to wheat (probably pasta and bread).

No matter what happened to the quantity (I think that it probably increased), the quality of carbohydrates decreased significantly during the obesity epidemic.

It's statistics like these that make me want wheat added to things like the post given to newbies. If people are not aware of where carbs hide, wheat could be a food item that is still eaten in high quantities. I am not using this as a platform to shout my own misgivings about wheat and grain, but as an educational tool for newly diagnosed, the same as bread, potato's, rice and pasta.