Role of diet in modern medicine

Hi All,

If anyone is in doubt about what this thread is about, then please re-read the OP.

Please do not derail into another re-hashing of environmental EAT Lancet meat-eating-under-threat. Or anything else. That is not what this thread is about.

Such derailments have consistently turned acrimonious. To derail this thread with those behaviours will result in deletions and/or closure.

WuTwo said:

I was gonna answer, but you know what? I can't be bothered. Nothing the vegans/veggies say is acceptable. Even if what we are saying is that our choices work for us.

I'm out of this thread.

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@WuTwo you have provided your own experience both in this thread and elsewhere in the Forum, and this has been valuable and valid evidence, I am not aware of anyone here who has questioned your motives or who has asked that you reconsider, or even suggested that your choice is wrong, What has been requested has been scientific evidence (facts and figures) to support the OP where medical claims were being made and agreed with without being challenged, When I and others raised questions so as to find what evidence there was backing the claims, there has been silence, It is not a personal attack on anyone but a need to make sure that the info given out in the forum has a basis of verifiable evidence in support.

It is easy for established posters to forget that once we too were Newbies, or just dx'ed, at the start of our learning curves. It is imperative that these people are supported by providing ingformation that is valid and in a form that will give them the support to make 'an informed choice' so they are aware before comitting what pitfalls have been identified and if they can be avoided.

Unfortunaltely the current trend to use vloggers, and videos on youtube leads to glossy presentations, but without any real substantive knowledge in them, It is often considered to be propaganda, or salespitch, and often ends in requests for donations or orders for books and goods, I am a cycical whatsit, but I have an inbuilt BS detector that fires off when it detects incorrect information. I am not alone, and often we follow these through and it may seem to be a personal attack. It is not, it is to highlight poor information masquerading as Eve's apple that on occasions can lead to harm.

I understand you are following an LC vegan diet, possibly keto, and this is a subject that I consider will be a valuable asset to this forum. It is one you have shown success with, and that is important information. We do not often get such success stories shared in the forum, so I would ask you to continue to use the forum, We need more success testimonials like yours.

We have had a few of these OPs and they all end with promises that a vegan diet will cure all ills, but with no evidence. How I wish the people who start them would stay around instead of causing arguments here. The statement 'Furthermore, a plant-based diet can facilitate and enhance the innate healing ability of the human body.' is about as useful as the slogan 'A Mars a day helps you work rest and play' .

truevegetarian said:

Furthermore, a plant-based diet can facilitate and enhance the innate healing ability of the human body.

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I must admit I have always liked vegetables, especially raw and I do cook veggies, only just cooked, but not quite al dente. I love the taste, the colours and the textures of the wide range of vegetables, just delicious

Robinredbreast said:

I must admit I have always liked vegetables, especially raw and I do cook veggies, only just cooked, but not quite
al dente. I love the taste, the colours and the textures, just delicious

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Me too, I much prefer vegetables to meat, but when I tried to switch to a vegan diet (twice) my health suffered. I wish the OP had stuck around to tell me where I went wrong, but I guess that was never their intention as they aren't diabetic.

zand said:

Me too, I much prefer vegetables to meat, but when I tried to switch to a vegan diet (twice) my health suffered. I wish the OP had stuck around to tell me where I went wrong, but I guess that was never their intention as they aren't diabetic.

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Last time Op was on here was Monday night.
Shame you couldn't cope with the veggie diet, but in all, an interesting thread, even if the Op appears to have absconded

WuTwo said:

I was gonna answer, but you know what? I can't be bothered. Nothing the vegans/veggies say is acceptable. Even if what we are saying is that our choices work for us.

I'm out of this thread.

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truevegetarian said:

Noted Chicagoland physician, Dr.Kunwarjit Singh Duggal talks about the critical role of food in medicine.

According to the Centers for Disease Control, in the U.S. alone, chronic diseases such as cardiovascular disease, diabetes, respiratory diseases and cancer, contribute to almost two thirds of all deaths, and account for nearly 75 percent of the aggregate healthcare spending. More than 1.7 million Americans die from these diseases each year. 610,000 die of heart disease alone, making it the number 1 killer.

Though genetics may play a role in the development of these diseases, they are mostly diseases of lifestyle.

Noted physical medicine and rehabilitation specialist, acclaimed author and international speaker, Dr Kunwarjit Singh Duggal, talks about how if we choose the right way to eat and the right way to move, we can prevent the development and progression of chronic diseases. Furthermore, a plant-based diet can facilitate and enhance the innate healing ability of the human body.

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The Doctors knowledge of cholesterol and its role in heart conditions is outdated.

A diet based on plants may well help different illnesses, I dont know. He says 'based' not 'exclusively' so I assume other food groups are OK? I cant find anything on what his plant based diet consists of. However, in type 2 diabetes, plant based can be far too high in carbs and actively harmful.

Pinkorchid said:

I do not see carnivores here being questioned if their diet is a healthy one to follow so what gives us the right to question the vegans and vegetarians on this forum. In the big wide world the main message is still a low saturated fat diet so how do we who are a small minority within the world think we are right to disagree with that

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I question the extent of the carnivore diet. Moderation in all things is a good mantra, in my opinion. No one diet has all the answers, from a healthy perspective, for all people.

I am mainly vegetarian at the moment.

WuTwo said:

And I actually do find health benefits in following a vegan lifestyle that includes a WFPB diet. My HbA1C improved, my skin improved, I don't have insomnia, I am happier in myself (which isn't a quantifiable health benefit but it helps counter my lurking depression.

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with respect - you are a Type 1. You can cover your carb intake with insulin. It is a very different view for tyep 2's like me. The OP didnt differentiate about what type of diabetes the Doctor was referring to, so its reasonable for those of us with type 2 to highlight the risks and flaws we have experienced with plant based diets.

Since the OP is not looking in, here is the data for for the USA CDC
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/mortality/lcwk9.htm

Here are the 2017 final figures by category but I do not see any diet related causes or effects being discussed.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr68/nvsr68_09_tables-508.pdf

Edit to add comments on OP posting:
The CDC results do not include any reference to lifestyles being causative, so the second para of OP is a comment by the OP writer and not supported by the first para. The third para of the OP also makes assumptions that the genetic element is low compared to lifestyle, but the inference made by the last para regarding diet tries to link diet as the main lifestyle adjustment to reduce these effects listed in second para,

The CDC info includes things like homicides, traffic accidents et al and again it (diet control) is an assumption added by the OP author and not backed up by any evidence at all.

I appreciate that in that regard it is a benefit having T1, but if I had T2 I would be using the keto vegan sites and recipe books rather than the low carb ones. I aim at 70g carb per day and a lot of the time I actually eat a good deal less but as you say I have the comfort of insulin.

I could not not be vegan though, so I would be finding and using alternatives. I have some keto recipe books and they are good; and some purely vegan books are dreadful! I read the totals in the nutrition bits and blench....

WuTwo said:

I could not not be vegan though,

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would you mind just clarifying this bit please? why couldnt you be vegan as a type 2? I think I may be misunderstanding something.

lucylocket61 said:

misunderstanding something

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Perhaps you didn't spot the double negative?

Yeah, it's clunky but I didn't know how else to put it - I cannot not be vegan. I just couldn't go back. Full stop. Not ever.

The smell of raw meat makes we want to vomit on the spot. The smell of cook meat is just revolting, and my stomach churns at the table if it is served at a dinner out or something.

WuTwo said:

Yeah, it's clunky but I didn't know how else to put it - I cannot not be vegan. I just couldn't go back. Full stop. Not ever.

The smell of raw meat makes we want to vomit on the spot. The smell of cook meat is just revolting, and my stomach churns at the table if it is served at a dinner out or something.

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Yes i can understand that. I am like that with some meats and also eggs. Strangely I react like that wirh honey now too. What about dairy products though?

Dark Horse said:

Perhaps you didn't spot the double negative?

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thanks, I hadnt worked that out.

zand said:

Yes i can understand that. I am like that with some meats and also eggs. Strangely I react like that wirh honey now too. What about dairy products though?

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Cow cheese smells odd, and cow milk smells in some strange way like "not food". Milk to me is oat milk. Yummy!

I'm not going to bang on about why we say "dairy is scary" because it is not appropriate here, but just search on that phrase to find out what I think of milk and cheese. I'm not going to mention eggs because I end up too angry to think straight.

WuTwo said:

Cow cheese smells odd, and cow milk smells in some strange way like "not food". Milk to me is oat milk. Yummy!

I'm not going to bang on about why we say "dairy is scary" because it is not appropriate here, but just search on that phrase to find out what I think of milk and cheese. I'm not going to mention eggs because I end up too angry to think straight.

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I am fortunate enough to live in a farming area and can get my milk and eggs within a half mile walk. The chickens are very well cared for and almost family pets. The cows are farmed the old fashioned way and all have names, all 28 of them. And the local dairy makes their own cheeses : )

I cant abide the smell of fish or seafood. I can only eat tuna and salmon if its tinned.

Hmmm ...not scary at all with old fashioned farming.