-
Guest, the forum is undergoing some upgrades and so the usual themes will be unavailable for a few days. In the meantime, you can use the forum like normal. We'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the 2025 Survey »
Role of diet in modern medicine
- Thread starter truevegetarian
- Start Date
- Status
Listlad
BANNED
Totally agree.
And yet that's exactly what has happened. High fat diets have been wrongly demonized with disastrous results. Oh and *** s a twinkie lol. I am out of this thread now.
Marie 2
Well-Known Member
Twinkies wow lol. A simple sponge cake with a flavored cream filling.
Pure junk food, the twinkie defense was even tried to be used as an excuse for killing someone once.
It was very popular when I was a kid. Hostess Twinkies were sold in a box individually wrapped so it was easy to take to school in your lunch box, A very sweet sponge cake with a sweetened cream filling in the middle, I bet you had something similar in the UK. They finally went out of business a few years ago but they have been around since the 20's??? I think someone else bought the "name" and is still selling them now, not sure.
Pure junk food, the twinkie defense was even tried to be used as an excuse for killing someone once.
It was very popular when I was a kid. Hostess Twinkies were sold in a box individually wrapped so it was easy to take to school in your lunch box, A very sweet sponge cake with a sweetened cream filling in the middle, I bet you had something similar in the UK. They finally went out of business a few years ago but they have been around since the 20's??? I think someone else bought the "name" and is still selling them now, not sure.
WuTwo
Well-Known Member
Tell you what though about my veganism, after I transitioned (overnight, many years ago) the guys at work all commented on how healthy and fit I looked. I've always been pale as a ghost 'cos I burn in the sunshine like a vampire so it's not that. Even the boss - not given to noticing things, and very much meat & fish man, said I looked amazingly well. Made me chuckle - he must have meant it, to have said it 'cos he was one of those men who say exactly what they think when they think it. (He died a couple of years ago - he was in his late 70's - and I still miss him).
Also, no insomnia - it went overnight, too. I hadn't had a good night's sleep in a long, long time but since I transitioned no matter how stressy my day, I sleep soundly.
Also, no insomnia - it went overnight, too. I hadn't had a good night's sleep in a long, long time but since I transitioned no matter how stressy my day, I sleep soundly.
WuTwo
Well-Known Member
Yep - we have stuff like that. Individually sold, last forever (goodness knows what preservatives are in them), taste icky but terrific if you're a junk food demon.
WuTwo
Well-Known Member
I don't disagree but I do find the subject matter interesting anyway.
I suspect that each of us finds benefit in our preferred diet, no matter what style of eating we prefer. Those benefits don't have to be identifiable nor does what I find to be a benefit have to qualify as such to someone else. And vice versa.
Last edited:
Oldvatr
Expert
I have raised serious discussions in this forum on the safety aspects of LCHF in particular, and I also questioned the Atkins diet when it came out [on The (other) Forum over the road]. I have also asked much the same questions that I raise here on the vegetarian way of life, especially since I now cohabit with two of them, and I am surrounded by followers of theirs who insist I can cure my T2D by adopting WFPB, I have had my meat products chucked into the garbage pail from the freezer by these people in the name of vegan lifestyle that they want my household to adopt without question, and I am the only one that has a bgl meter that tells me why I must resist their commandments.
I get regular blood checks and other health checks that also ensure that my basic diet is safe and being metabolised correctly. I as an omnivore, eat some meat products as is my choice, but I also eat a large assortment of plant sourced food. I eat much more of the plant based material since going LCHF that I did on the standard Eatwell diet of yore. My diet is better now than it ever was when I was first diagnosed,
I have just spent 3 months on hospital fare, which was largely vegetarian and according to Eatwell guidelines, and my bgl levels shot up to dngerous levels, I am home now on a lowish carb diet, and my bgl is under control again. But I am not vegetarian.
So it is not true that omnivores and carnivores are not questioned. We are, and most of us who follow these diets have a vested interest in researching them to make sure they continue to meet our needs. I think diabetics here in the forum are better informed on nutrition and metabolism than most GP's and HCP's and there is a wealth of knowedge about nutrient needs and diets since we dig deeper than the average dieter because it is our lives and health at risk, not just how good we look in beachwear.
Oldvatr
Expert
There was a docmentary on Euronews about twinkies and Hershey bars, and they are still being made and shipped by the million daily.
WuTwo
Well-Known Member
@Oldvatr - This thread isn't actually about you. It's about whether or not peoples' diet in general can make them ill. Only in the very last sentence of the OP does it mention that a vegan lifestyle might be of benefit to peoples health.
".......talks about how if we choose the right way to eat and the right way to move, we can prevent the development and progression of chronic diseases. Furthermore, a plant-based diet can facilitate and enhance the innate healing ability of the human body."
This is not saying that a vegan/veggie lifestyle is preferable. It says such a diet can be useful. I don't doubt that a healthy vegan diet would be healthier than an omni junkfood diet, but on the other hand, a junk food vegan diet would not be healthier than a well chosen omni diet.
".......talks about how if we choose the right way to eat and the right way to move, we can prevent the development and progression of chronic diseases. Furthermore, a plant-based diet can facilitate and enhance the innate healing ability of the human body."
This is not saying that a vegan/veggie lifestyle is preferable. It says such a diet can be useful. I don't doubt that a healthy vegan diet would be healthier than an omni junkfood diet, but on the other hand, a junk food vegan diet would not be healthier than a well chosen omni diet.
Oldvatr
Expert
We are restricted in this Forum to discuss things in our own experience, so just as you do, I was saying what my experience was. It makes me ill. simples.
Edit to add The thread title gives a clue by equating diet with medicine.
WuTwo
Well-Known Member
Fair enough, but no point slagging of veganism for everyone else if what you want to say is simply that it isn't for you. I think we've gathered that by now. It's OK for some others - just not for you. That's cool. Follow your own path - no one here has a problem with that. So I assume you have no problem whatsoever with anyone who is veggie, posting in the veggie forum, saying they prefer a veggie diet....
Oldvatr
Expert
The information in the OP seems to be misplaced. The Dr.Kunwarjit Singh Duggal mentioned is a specialist in rehab and pain at Calumnet medical facility Chicago. He is shown as being a physiatrist there. He has spoken at two Vegfests in Chicago, and also given evidence to the UN. These talks seem to have been on pain relief. So the OP is talking about deaths and chronic diseases and makes the implication that this guy is a general specialist but I cannot see any evidence of him speaking outside his speciality, So the OP is definitely trying to imply more than he contributes, and then tries to assign this to being linked to the vegetarian diet,
Misleading post giving incorrect information IMHO And I feel it is right to question its validity.
Misleading post giving incorrect information IMHO And I feel it is right to question its validity.
Mbaker
Well-Known Member
Every claim made should be scrutinised including those for carnivore, LCHF, Veganism, Vegetarianism, Newcastle Diet, Paleo etc, we are in the mess we have due to dogma dictating the direction of travel for food choices. Our young people are trying out some of the options with horrendous effects (just go over to YouTube and do you own research). It is so important to be like Dr Eric Westman who allowed facts to speak for themselves, rather than just sticking fingers in the ears and saying la la la.
We know that plants have been used by many societies to resolve medical and mitigate issues, naturally in tribes and by pharma. We sort of understand the mechanisms involved. The discussion as to whether plant food should overshadow animal foods needs public, national and international debates (quickly as this has been tagged onto climate change). Are they the best for us, or that what we have been told - all facts should be put on the table with no "sugar coating".
On this site we have flogged to death and beyond what protocol is "best". The governments of the world are leaning towards plant based with a recommendation of 90% reduction in animal food (I purposefully no longer say product, that puts meat etc in the same bracket as other fake things). I feel the answers to what are best have some of these questions:
I have a bias but it is not hard to see some answers here, I want a complete list (I am personalised not interested yeah, but fibre etc as the sugar hit for me is key to what happens immediately in the body:
We know that plants have been used by many societies to resolve medical and mitigate issues, naturally in tribes and by pharma. We sort of understand the mechanisms involved. The discussion as to whether plant food should overshadow animal foods needs public, national and international debates (quickly as this has been tagged onto climate change). Are they the best for us, or that what we have been told - all facts should be put on the table with no "sugar coating".
On this site we have flogged to death and beyond what protocol is "best". The governments of the world are leaning towards plant based with a recommendation of 90% reduction in animal food (I purposefully no longer say product, that puts meat etc in the same bracket as other fake things). I feel the answers to what are best have some of these questions:
- What are the general causes of diabesity
- What are the main causes of cardiovascular disease
- What are the main causes of the cancers
- What foods irritate autoimmune bowel conditions
- What is the limit of total sugar (inclusive of carbs) women, men and children should have per day
- What blood glucose and insulin rise or requirement is acceptable after a meal
- What conditions are related to sugar
- What conditions are related to high circulating insulin
- What foods relate directly to oral issues particularly in children
- What foods cross the required 2% hazard ratio to warrant further investigation and meet the accepted scientific threshold of being worthy science.
I have a bias but it is not hard to see some answers here, I want a complete list (I am personalised not interested yeah, but fibre etc as the sugar hit for me is key to what happens immediately in the body:
- Status
