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So sad, it's too late and "If Only"

MrsA2

MrsA2

Expert
Messages
6,932
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I am very fond of an older couple (now 86) who are like adopted parents to me.
He was diagnosed some 15-20 years ago with the standard NHS advice to cut down and eat wholegrain etc. He has mostly carried on regardless, enjoying cereal breakfasts, biscuits at coffee time, sandwiches for lunch, meat and veg and pasta for tea and often dessert or cake. When out socially he eats what he fancies, all three courses with no understanding of carbs. Alcohol, often the very sweet ones often too.

Since I was diagnosed 2.5 years ago and found low carb life, they, her in particular, have been trying to learn and change, more so recently.

I have been concerned about his bladder for a while, and catch sight of black lower limbs. Now he has had a bleed behind the eye and is being fast tracked for laser surgery. Google describes this as diabetic retinopathy, although the doctors haven't yet mentioned the word "diabetes complication" to him.

My dilemma, my guilt are like this:
how much could I have helped by saying more earlier?
How many years of ignorance has he had because of the NHS advice that's led to this?
Is it too late for changes to low carb to help him?
At 86 should I just let them be and carry on eating what they like although it is harming him?
There may still be years of complications ahead and I need to keep my mouth shut (not easy) and just watch

I know there's no easy or right answers.
I suppose I just needed to share my feelings, my guilt, with people who might understand
Thank you for giving me the space to vent . I feel so sad
 
MrsA2 said:
Is it too late for changes to low carb to help him?
Click to expand...
It's never too late!
But:
MrsA2 said:
At 86 should I just let them be and carry on eating what they like although it is harming him?
Click to expand...
This depends entirely on him.
Informing and offering help and information is great, but not to the point it becomes nagging.

Compare it to smoking. I smoke (a lot) and I'm well aware of how detrimental this is to my health.
If I didn't know I'd be very surprised and puzzled if friends did know but didn't tell me.
However, my friends (and HCP's) know I know, so just going on about it is unnecessarily meddlesome and belittling to the point of being rude with the possibility of driving me away.

On the other hand, I'm perfectly fine with a friend sharing what worked for them to quit smoking or a HCP occasionally asking if I would like help with quitting, as long as they accept no for an answer.
MrsA2 said:
My dilemma, my guilt are like this:
how much could I have helped by saying more earlier?
Click to expand...
Not a fair question to yourself.
Very understandable but not fair.
MrsA2 said:
I know there's no easy or right answers.
I suppose I just needed to share my feelings, my guilt, with people who might understand
Thank you for giving me the space to vent . I feel so sad
Click to expand...
Yes, understand, no, no easy answers, yes, please vent, and have a big fat hug to share with your friends.
You're doing the right thing whatever course you take because you're aware of the dilemma.
 
Judging by the tone of your post, I feel you will hit the right notes. I talked to my younger brother a few years ago about his dietary patterns, which resulted in him not talking to me for many weeks. Then last year he asked me for help with his daughters total weight. He has since taken up low carbing and is in great shape; I know it was him listening to Thomas De Lauer that pushed him over the line.

Maybe you could suggest some swaps and leave a video to listen to. I would recommend this one from Dr Unwin, as it talks about the problem foods, mentions the one's he uses to get reversal in patients and his audience is a bunch of Doctors thereby providing credibility. You can then answer questions if need be:

 
MrsA2 said:
It's too late and "If Only"

I am very fond of an older couple (now 86) who are like adopted parents to me.
Click to expand...
I can understand the "If only" bit very well, as it's "too late" for me.

I think your love and respect for your "adoptive parent", he might be appreciate a little help to cut back on some things. I also hope that he has palliative care as he is a fair age.

Hugs for you both.
 
I agree that is the worst thing in life watching people suffer. But sometimes we ave to stand back a little otherwise it becoms our own suffering as well.
 
Well I sent that the way of the world. We suffer until we don't want t o suffer.An y way all the best.
 
You can take a camel to water, but you cannot make him drink.

Perhaps sharing your meter results with him and show how you have gained control for yourself (i.e. lead by example) My daughter was vegan and disparaging of my diet, but has since researched carb diiets and has softened her stance. She now limits her carb intake but has no control over the binges. But then she is not diabetic. But she appreciates why I do what I do and works with me to get through Xmas etc.
 
MrsA2 said:
I am very fond of an older couple (now 86) who are like adopted parents to me.
He was diagnosed some 15-20 years ago with the standard NHS advice to cut down and eat wholegrain etc. He has mostly carried on regardless, enjoying cereal breakfasts, biscuits at coffee time, sandwiches for lunch, meat and veg and pasta for tea and often dessert or cake. When out socially he eats what he fancies, all three courses with no understanding of carbs. Alcohol, often the very sweet ones often too.

Since I was diagnosed 2.5 years ago and found low carb life, they, her in particular, have been trying to learn and change, more so recently.

I have been concerned about his bladder for a while, and catch sight of black lower limbs. Now he has had a bleed behind the eye and is being fast tracked for laser surgery. Google describes this as diabetic retinopathy, although the doctors haven't yet mentioned the word "diabetes complication" to him.

My dilemma, my guilt are like this:
how much could I have helped by saying more earlier?
How many years of ignorance has he had because of the NHS advice that's led to this?
Is it too late for changes to low carb to help him?
At 86 should I just let them be and carry on eating what they like although it is harming him?
There may still be years of complications ahead and I need to keep my mouth shut (not easy) and just watch

I know there's no easy or right answers.
I suppose I just needed to share my feelings, my guilt, with people who might understand
Thank you for giving me the space to vent . I feel so sad
Click to expand...
You have a good heart @MrsA2 .

No easy way around the topic, mind.


We each must learn our way.

Nothing stopping others learning what the possibilities are with T2D
But some just want to ignore the chances and carry on as before .

We can't save everyone, and as @Antje77 points out regarding smoking, many might not want the reminding ...
So who are we to insist .

Failed by the dogma ?... definitely in my eyes.

Listening & trying now...nice, but as you say, a little too late and so much damage done.

Hard, but like many things, we can only stand by, and offer a listening ear or hugs when needed.

It's not our life to lead, much as we might have liked to.

A troubling time for sure, that's very easy to see.

No easy routes, but a reminder to be kind to yourself & gather your strength.

Because I suspect you'll be there, to be a source of much support when needed

Go gently kind lady.
 
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That was really good. 'You can take a came l to water but
you can't really make him drink'.
 
The bad advice re the eatwell plate given to diabetics has a lot to answer for. My mother, who died in 2007, would have been the same age as your neighbours - born into an era when information was not readily available and you did as you were told by your medical team as ‘they knew best’. She was overweight despite trying to cut calories and gradually progressed to insulin and lost her sight even though she stuck to eating the advised ‘healthy diet’ eg wholemeal bread, pasta, rice, jacket potatoes, healthy cereals such as low sugar Alpen and low fat and low sugar everything. She even baked her own cakes so she could cut down on the amount of sugar used! Before finding this forum and researching I did the same to try and avoid developing diabetes (which I obviously didn’t) which is in the family. She was also on statins which contributed to ulcers on her legs - they knew this but instead of taking her off them they kept prescribing different ones - 6 in total. Ironically she passed away overnight due to a heart attack and diabetic complications. Part of a generation let down by a system more concerned about the fat and cholesterol in food than the carbs in it.
 
@MrsA2 , I think we always have to remind ourselves that not ALL issues that could readily be attributable to diabetes are actually diabetes related.

As we age, some things just don't work so well, and often the circulation becomes less efficient. The bleed in his eye could be diabetes related, but he may have banged his head, or just got unlucky.

At the end of the day, provided an individual has medical capacity (to make their own decisions), then we have to respect any decision they make, even if we think it is utterly bonkers.

I'm sure we all know of people whom we may feel have issues, or increased issues, that could have been prevented or minimised. Bottom line is, we can't save everyone.
 
I had a frend who was T2 on insulin I advised cajoled and nagged him about low carb loosing weight and bringing his blood sugars down all to no avail he loved his food just too much.

And now I am so glad that he ignored my advise, as a couple of years ago he developed lung cancer caused by exposure to asbestos 30 odd years ago and died, so if he had taken my advise he would have spent his last few years miserably missing the foods he loved pointlessly.

We none of us know what tomorrow will bring and if you give advise it is upto those who recieve it wether to act on it or not.

All you can do is be the best friend you know how to be now and not regret advise not taken or not offered.
 
@JohnEGreen I'm really sorry about your friend, but I think that as far as your logic goes, there's a serious flaw. You say you are now glad he ignored your advice and didn't try to get his diabetes under better control and enjoyed the food instead, since he passed away from cancer. But the thing is, nobody can know how things would've been if he did get his diabetes under better control. Maybe nothing would've changed. But maybe diabetes contributed to him developing the cancer in some ways, meaning that with better control, he might've developed the cancer later or perhaps even not at all. Nobody can tell, because that version of events obviously didn't happen. And while I absolutely understand there are people who just don't care and are perfectly willing to keep enjoying their food and change nothing, ultimately I would think most, if given a choice between enjoying food or living even just a few months, if not years longer, would choose the latter, because while good food is really nice, it's not *that* important in the grand scheme of things to most.

Like you yourself say, none of us know what tomorrow will bring, and all you can ever do is try to be the best friend possible and help those close to you the best you can. But if they choose to not listen to you, it seems kinda wrong to me to ultimately be glad they didn't, because we just don't know how things would've turned out if they did.
 
An tje77 and his point on smoking.My late husband us ed to nag me all the time 'You will have to stop smoking.You will ha ve to stop smoking.
It didn't help really.It made things worse.Then I eventally stopped (my own decision). After 3 months of stopping he said 'You will ave to stop smoking'. He hadn't even noticed that I had stopped .Guess what I did I went out to get a pkt of fags
He should have encouraged not nag really. And maybe just say 'well that's good'. When I had stopped.We all need encouragement and praise sometimes.
 
Case_ said:
But maybe diabetes contributed to him developing the cancer in some ways
Click to expand...
Sorry but his cancer was one only caused by exposure to asbestos and particularly agressive once symptoms became apparent the outcome was inevitable in fact he turned down treatment as it would only have prolonged things a short while and spent his remaining time with his friends and family planning his own funeral and writing his own eulogy.

And I am glad he ignored my advise because as it turned out it was wrong for him. Although I did not know that at the time.
 
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