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starting lchf while on insulin

Discussion in 'Type 2 with Insulin' started by hognose, Feb 23, 2017.

  1. hognose

    hognose Other · Well-Known Member

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    i am thinking of going on the lchf diet/way of life ,need to lose loads of weight, iam aslo on insulin my bg levels can be good but also spike alot too
     
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  2. Chook

    Chook Type 2 · Expert

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    I'm not sure what your question is really - but I started on low carb high fat when I was on rather a lot of insulin and stopped needing it after a few weeks of constant adjustments.

    I used to adjust my Novorapid dose according to what I ate and, of course on strict LCHF, very soon I didn't eat anything that required fast acting. Then, as my BG slowly dropped, I started reducing my Lantus background insulin until one day I just stopped.

    I would recommend discussing your plans with your GP or DN as we are all different and what worked for me might not be the best way for you.

    Good luck
     
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  3. Sid Bonkers

    Sid Bonkers Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Are you using multiple daily injections (MDI) of insulin or are you just using long action insulin injected once or twice a day?

    If you are using MDI and injection fast acting insulin before every meal then you need to count the carbs in every meal and adjust your fast acting pre meal insulin down to account for the reduction in carbs.

    If you are using just slow acting insulin twice a day then you NEED to consult your GP and tell them what you want to do as you could easily become hypo if you do not eat enough carbs to cover the insulin, you may be able to lower your long acting insulin but it will never be as actuate as MDI insulin treatment and if you dont understand this please see your GP before reducing carbs.

    I was on MDI insulin for a year after diagnosis and managed to lose 4 stones in 12 months and then another stone in the second year when just on metformin, so it can be done but you do need to be injecting fast acting insulin before meals to do it successfully as that is the only way you can adjust for the food you eat, rather than eating to your insulin.

    Good luck
     
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  4. hognose

    hognose Other · Well-Known Member

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    i guess the question/worry is reduceing the insulin how much by as i go down to 20g carbs per day,
    the Insuman Comb 25) 36u+36+36u per day re each meal


    ill see the dn then
     
    #4 hognose, Feb 23, 2017 at 10:40 AM
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017
  5. novorapidboi26

    novorapidboi26 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Basically your on a mixed insulin so reducing the dose will be a bit more trickier than it would be on a basal/bolus regime.....

    so trial and error..........always be prepared for hypos and keep good records.....
     
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  6. hognose

    hognose Other · Well-Known Member

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    yup had one hypo the other day hour after lunch drop from 7.9 to 2.9, i do check my levels before and after each meal or if feel bit funny
     
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  7. novorapidboi26

    novorapidboi26 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    thats good......

    you can expect more hypos throughout the day if your dropping your carb intake.....

    reducing your doses as you go and record when it works and when it doesn't.....
     
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  8. Kristin251

    Kristin251 LADA · Expert

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    I'm LADA but needed to reduce my insulin a LOT going low carb. I was told to eat 20 g per meal which was more than I ate in a day. Couldn't keep my bs steady at all. Went back to vlc and reduced insulin from 5-7 units to 1/2-1. I eat small meals, vlc and high fat. I hypod along the way until I found my dose for each meal. I have very steady numbers. However I am on basal bolus. I know nothing about mixed insulin except it's still insulin.

    Test test test along this journey.
     
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  9. hognose

    hognose Other · Well-Known Member

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    was up to 56u in morning and 56u evening but find its better per meal so drop it to 36 per meal,
     
  10. azure

    azure Type 1 · Expert

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    @hognose Definitely give your DSN a call. As Novorapidboi says, you're on a mixed insulin with a set percentage of the insulins mixed together. It may be that you would benefit from a move to a different percentage mix if you're changing your diet, as you may need more/less of each insulin contained in the mix. That isn't possible to achieve properly by just reducing the overall dose.

    Write down what you're eating so the DSN has an idea of your meals, and get their advice.
     
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  11. Rose88

    Rose88 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    @hognose I'm in a similar boat to you and today I've been asking the same ... The advice from the lovely people on this forum is speak with DN regarding meals and insulin dosage. So I rang the surgery briefly telling them of my concern and Ive actually managed to get an appointment this evening!! That's unheard of at our surgury but I'm not complaining lol.
     
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  12. hognose

    hognose Other · Well-Known Member

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    kool let us know how you get on.
    i too phoned my dn an have vist at 9 in tommrow mornning,
    thanks everyone
     
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  13. Nidge247

    Nidge247 LADA · Well-Known Member

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    I reduced my quick acting insulin via carb counting and test test testing. My background reduced much slower over a number of weeks, continuing my usual 6-8 daily tests. (I drive a lot). I'm not currently requiring any insulin, providing no meal exceeds 30g carbs with a total of 50-60g daily total. My DSN is amazed and following things closely, but is happy with results so far.

    I did find I initially had too much fat, which whilst making me feel full, actually gained me some weight as I didn't exercise enough. However, with more of a moderate fat intake I'm still not hungry between meals and have adjusted my weight to my target amount, still full of energy with good BGs all the time. It CAN all go wrong with a high carb meal though - it's not a cure, but simply effective management to give a healthy lifestyle with no hypers or hypos. Fortunately I do still have good hypo awareness, and needing to be 5-to-drive helps keep good awareness if it drops below this.
     
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  14. Rose88

    Rose88 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I would suggest you show the DN your readings and your diet so that you get the best advice possible, thats what i did today.
     
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  15. hognose

    hognose Other · Well-Known Member

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    yup got my books with what ive been eating,record of the bg ,got new meter thats doing good and keeps records/graph
    so that will going with me,
     
  16. Kristin251

    Kristin251 LADA · Expert

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    I'm confused ? You're not on insulin but you reduced basal? Or did you mean bolus insulin? My honeymoon ended a few months ago. A year ago my c peptide was .6. Very low and now I'm sure it's gone. Vlc keeps my insulin needs very low. Except those stinking mornings. Still low but I need to stagger half units until around noon. This is how I know the honeymoon is over. I never needed to do that the first 2.5 years. Yes, it certainly can all go wrong with an overindulgence. Then takes me three days to stay flat. Good for you though!

    I eat an 80% fat diet but it consists of a whole avocado divided through the day and about 2-3 tablespoons olive oil or mayo and some nuts/ seeds as a snack. Of course whatever comes with my protein but I don't eat chicken skin , bacon, dairy fat and I keep saturated fat on the low side. Not only does it cause me weight gain but higher bs longer. Boy, so many intricacies. Then the wind blows and it all changes. .
     
  17. Kristin251

    Kristin251 LADA · Expert

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    Good luck!! Do keep us posted!
     
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  18. hognose

    hognose Other · Well-Known Member

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    thanks,yes will do
     
  19. Nidge247

    Nidge247 LADA · Well-Known Member

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    Basal is background insulin; in my case Levemir. Bolus is quick-acting insulin; in my case Novorapid.

    The quick-acting is directly linked to the number of carbs you consume, hence why when going low-carb it's important to carb-count and reduce your insulin accordingly, otherwise you will hypo all the time. As I was very insulin sensitive, I was already on a ratio of 0.5 : 1.5 in any case thanks to use of a half-unit pen. It was soon very clear that on LCHF I would not need any bolus at all, as continuing to take it meant frequent hypos, thus needing sugars again and the inevitable spikes (and feeling rotten).

    The basal (background) insulin was reduced very slowly, and one unit at a time to see how my levels were sustained, and to ensure other readings from my blood tests were not hampered in any way.

    With sticking to my LCHF lifestyle, my body gets all the goodness it needs to run efficiently, and with gentle exercise (walking the dogs) everything runs well.

    I do still get Dawn Phenomenon, but as I know my BGs will rise by 2 units (on average) every night, am content to go to bed in the 4-5 range. When I was on insulin, I would need to be 6.5 to go to bed, as morning results were unpredictable.

    My pancreas can clearly cope with releasing enough insulin to manage LCHF, but does struggle with over 30g carbs in one go - so most meals are between 0-20g; it's no hardship, you find new recipes/foods every week, and hence can enjoy a varied diet, still eating out on occasion with friends and family. Once you fully understand LCHF and if it works well for you - you won't want to 'poison' your system again with a high carb lifestyle. So many friends (non-diabetic) are now also looking at LCHF, as they have seen the huge difference it has made to me.

    My consultant is very aware of LCHF, and one of his patients has followed it for over 7 years to date without needing insulin. As the NHS does not currently promote this lifestyle, it is often hidden under the 'honeymoon' banner, but time will tell as to when these separate. My DSN's are amazed at my results since changing to this lifestyle, they don't fully understand it as they have not been taught it, but are watching my results closely. My own GP I now haven't seen for over 18 months, as my health has been so much improved, the DSN's can see to all my needs - however, he would have advocated to stay on my original doses of insulin as he did not know about the viability of 'alternatives', and I found it increasingly difficult to get an appointment with him anyway.
     
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  20. Kristin251

    Kristin251 LADA · Expert

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    I am very clear on what basal and bolus do as I am on both. I was just confused as you said you didn't take insulin anymore but you reduced basal, which of course is insulin. You just aren't taking bolus. Good for you. I still need 1/2-1 unit bolus and 2 basal with low carb ( almost no carb) and my half unit pen is indispensable!!! I couldn't live without it. I wish lantus came in half unit pens.
    As my pancreas is producing less insulin I have needed to up doses a tad but still quite small. I don't care for how insulin makes me feel. I like keeping doses low.
    Best of luck. Low carb is the way to go!!
     
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