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Statins As A Cause Of Diabetes

Discussion in 'Ask A Question' started by gardengnome42, Sep 15, 2018.

  1. gardengnome42

    gardengnome42 Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    I keep reading that taking a statin can cause Type 2 Diabetes or at any rate they are a risk factor. If this is so then why are NICE so keen to promote the things? Or are they in league with Big Pharma?
     
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  2. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    Good question. NICE has been likened to an ocean going liner, takes forever to do a u-turn.
     
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  3. Tipetoo

    Tipetoo Type 2 · Expert

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    I was T2 Diabetic before starting taking rosuvastatins, I was prescribed them by the cardiologist after I was diagnosed with AFib in hospital.
     
  4. MikeyJ

    MikeyJ Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, I've been on a statin for 10 years and now diagnosed with T2 this year
     
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  5. carina62

    carina62 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I was on statins before I became T2 diabetic, if I’d known there was a link I would never have started on them :-(
     
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  6. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    Put simply, NICE sometimes work on the principle of risk v benefit. The thing about statins is that the benefit has been vastly overstated by pharmaceutical companies. A figure sometimes quoted for the benefit of taking a statin after a cardio vascular event is 1.1% and as Kendrick and others have said, this equates to a figure of roughly one week's extra life in ten years. NB Different boffins quote slightly different figures but they are all within same range. Theoretically, a patient might be prescribed a statin not ever having had a cvd event and be on them for 20+ years for the 'benefit' of a fortnight extra life but with all the risk of side effects such as the risk of T2, muscular pain and the risk of muscular damage, brain fog etc.
    In my opinion the risks far outweigh the miniscule benefit but hey! my scales are from Amazon so what do I know?
     
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  7. Prem51

    Prem51 Type 2 · Expert

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    I was taking statins before I was diagnosed T2, it may have been one of many factors which contributed.
    NHS advice is that statins can raise blood glucose and be a factor in increased risk of T2 diabetes, but only in up to 10% of people taking them.

    Screenshot 2018-09-16 at 08.41.19.png

    I stopped taking them mainly because I didn't think my cholesterol ratios and overall figure were bad, and a higher cholesterol level seems to be beneficial for older people.
     
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    #7 Prem51, Sep 16, 2018 at 8:50 AM
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
  8. Jo_the_boat

    Jo_the_boat Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  9. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    I am not on anyone's bandwagon. I have made my decision on information available to me and which is based on my personal health status. I do not wish to offend but why should I be coerced into taking a drug because you have a problem with your health and for which you have made an equal but opposite decision on the best treatment? We are different people, I am staunch in my opposition to whole population treatment based on risk values that include age and post code.
     
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  10. Dark Horse

    Dark Horse · Well-Known Member

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    An extract from a paper which was published in the Lancet in 2012 says this:-

    In higher risk secondary prevention patients with established coronary artery disease, the diabetes risk associated with statin therapy is low in absolute terms when compared with the reduction in cardiovascular events. However, in lower risk primary prevention patients where statin therapy is increasingly being utilized for vascular prevention, there has been controversy in the lay and medical press as to whether the absolute benefit of treatment outweighs the diabetes risk.

    The current analyses from a contemporary primary prevention trial suggests that the risk of developing diabetes on statin therapy appears limited to those with baseline evidence of impaired fasting glucose, metabolic syndrome, severe obesity, or elevated HbA1c, a group of patients already at high risk for developing diabetes. Of equal importance, within the JUPITER trial, the cardiovascular and mortality benefits of statin therapy exceeded the diabetes hazard in the trial population as a whole as well as among those at higher risk for developing diabetes.
    In other words, the cardiovascular benefits were thought to outweigh the downsides in those people without prior known coronary artery disease, even in those who develop diabetes.

    Obviously, this is just one analysis. NICE looks at evidence 'in the round' which can give the impression that it takes forever to 'do a U-turn' but does mean that it doesn't keep running off in different directions like a headless chicken every time a new paper is published.

    I think that talking about benefits in terms of 'extra weeks of life' can be a bit misleading. The way this figure is arrived at is by taking the 'expected extra weeks of life' that have been lost when people die prematurely and 'sharing' it out between the people who haven't died early. On average, that could be 2 weeks, but for the people that have died prematurely, it could be years or even decades. Conversely, the other people taking the drug may have no life extension whatsoever. The problem is that nobody knows which patients avoid premature death and which patients wouldn't die early even without treatment.
     
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  11. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    And there lies the rub. Who/what do we lay people base our decisions on? We, who if we care to be informed patients, do the research to the best of our understanding and taking into account our personal medical conditions as well as familial history still have to choose because we are holding the dirty end of the stick when it comes to putting that pill into our mouths. And let's be clear, NICE/PHE/NHS etc have the same data i.e most of which is not independant. And that was a direct swipe at Rory Collins btw.
     
  12. Jo_the_boat

    Jo_the_boat Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    My point is that if you're going to quote stats, it's best to be sure.
    You said...
    "A figure sometimes quoted for the benefit of taking a statin after a cardio vascular event is 1.1% and as Kendrick and others have said, this equates to a figure of roughly one week's extra life in ten years."

    If you can point me to where that came from I may have another look at it all, even though I take them for a different reason.
     
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  13. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    Why ask me? I'm on the bandwaggon, remember?
     
  14. Krystyna23040

    Krystyna23040 Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    It has taken 6 years for the damage to my muscles caused by taking statins for 26 days to heal. Three years longer than a consultant said it would. I have one Consultant saying that statins will prolong my life and another saying that they won't prolong my life more than a week. Not hard to guess which Consultants advice I am taking.
     
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  15. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Expert

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    Obviously the one who says your life will be extended, think what you could do with that extra week.
     
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  16. MrsGruffy

    MrsGruffy Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    My experience is that I had been on Atorvastatin for a few years at 40mg per day, until early this year, when my increasing cholesterol numbers led to my GP doubling the dose to 80mg per day. I've had annual HbA1c tests for years now, because I'm the typical T2 apple shape mostly, I think. Within a month or so of the increased dose of statins, I basically fell off the BG cliff, with a very sudden change in BG and all the classic symptoms - crazy unquenchable thirst, running to the loo several times a night, blurred vision, feeling like I'd been run over by a bus and having no energy and extraordinary cravings for sweets. I'm not usually a sweet tooth, so it was really quite extraordinary. Initially, after I read about the link between statins and T2 diagnosis, I felt really angry and incredibly let down - I wasn't told of the risk, and as we humans tend to, I blamed the statins, because they were an easy target, especially after the really bad wrap statins get on this forum -this was the only source of information I felt I could trust at first, and mostly, still is. I felt completely betrayed by my GP, who knew I was working hard to get my life in order.

    However, 6 months have past since then, and I have come to believe I truly was T2D just waiting to to be formally recognised, despite normal HbA1c test results. I do believe it was the straw which broke the camel's back, but it came on top of intense stress for a prolonged period of time, homelessness, violence, very poor eating habits, depression and crazy weight fluctuations with a background of a lifetime of drug and alcohol abuse and poor decision making. Part of my healing is taking full responsibility for my poor choices and a deep acceptance of my flaws. From that moment, I took control, and things are looking up. Not perfect, but I'm planning to die young, but for that to take a very long time. I take statins again, along with antihypertensives, antidepressants and metformin. I got scared into it really. I'm not scared of dying, but I'm terrified of living sick. I also eat low carb healthy fat, and try to move my body for no good reason for about 40 minutes each day. I've lost 18 kg in 6 months, and in 2 kg time, I'll be overweight for the first time since childhood.

    I'm overdue for my next lot of blood work, which I'll probably have done next week. I have been back on statins for about a month and I have all my test results for the last few years, so once I have the new results, I'm going to have a chat with my new GP to review the plan. I'm not crazy about statins, but I had a close relative who had her first heart attack before she turned 50, followed by several strokes and years of quite devastating disability. I fear that more than the side effects of statins. Of course, your mileage may vary.. but I figure I've spent a lot of time thinking about this and read a lot of research and watched far too many hours of youtube videos about it. I temper that with the fact that I had pre eclampsia with all 5 of my pregnancies and several TIAs while pregnant, and hypertension ever since along with a first degree relative who obviously had serious cardiovascular issues. I'm also doing a degree in neuroscience, and I was pretty distressed when I realised that I have all the risk factors covered for developing dementia, or at least I did 6 months ago - T2D was like the last one I didn't have yet! I guess if I have that, it's too late to do much about it, since it's insidious onset is often 20 years before symptoms. I am hooked up with the healthy brain project which is a research project tracking cognitive decline in people over 50. I'm also involved in some diabetes research as well. Sorry @gardengnome42 - I should probably have started a new discussion. I'm such a rambler!
     
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  17. Pinkorchid

    Pinkorchid Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Me to but to late to worry now if it was the statins that caused the T2 can't change it and I still take them
     
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  18. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    Why?
     
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  19. Pinkorchid

    Pinkorchid Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    My husband has just been in hospital with a heart problem and he has been put on 80g of Atorvastatin a day by the cardiologist he already has T2 caused the doctor thinks by taking steroids for Polymyalgia
     
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    #19 Pinkorchid, Sep 18, 2018 at 10:09 AM
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2018
  20. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    @Jo_the_boat "I'm getting a bit tired if saying this but there are people, me included, who believe that we are helped by taking a statin. Until an alternative comes along, and we are advised by our specialists, we will continue to ignore your advice."

    That is completely your choice. However are you not pleased to be made aware of the possible problems your decision to take them may be causing? Your doctor/specialist probably won't be aware of current research. Would you rather not know that they may be problematic?
     
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