1. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2021 »
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Guest, stay home, stay safe, save the NHS. Stay up to date with information about keeping yourself and people around you safe here and GOV.UK: Coronavirus (COVID-19). Think you have symptoms? NHS 111 service is available here.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

Statins - good or bad - what does the research say?

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by Indy51, Jan 1, 2016.

  1. Osidge

    Osidge Type 2 · Well-Known Member
    Retired Moderator

    Messages:
    1,272
    Likes Received:
    434
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Please see the links I have already posted. Were I to read and believe everything on the internet I would be a poor man: utilising every diet and every supplement that the internet tells me will control - or even cure - my diabetes.

    Doug
     
  2. robert72

    robert72 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,884
    Likes Received:
    3,622
    Trophy Points:
    178
    ASCOT was funded by Pfizer :eek:
    http://eurheartj.oxfordjournals.org/content/29/4/499.long
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. dannyw

    dannyw Type 1 · BANNED

    Messages:
    430
    Likes Received:
    1,239
    Trophy Points:
    158
    I agree, those links you provided are also on the internet :) They mean no more than links I could provide with opposing views.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Osidge

    Osidge Type 2 · Well-Known Member
    Retired Moderator

    Messages:
    1,272
    Likes Received:
    434
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Interestingly the ASCOT cohort in the UK meets every year at Bart's Hospital to be updated on clinical research. Not all of these are drug trials but are often using information that is already held or about other forms of treatment etc. There is no doubt that pharma fund some research but there is much research done that is not about drugs. I am not sure of pharma's vested interested in that. I would be very surprised if your GP was informing anyone of your decision to stop statins. To my knowledge, there is no universal statin monitoring. Back to ASCOT - this link will give the history and funding by Pfizer of that trial. To besmirch the ASCOT team because of the funding arrangements as not being independent in their work is sad. http://www.ascotstudy.org/history.

    Doug
     
  5. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,914
    Likes Received:
    3,396
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Agree, got it mixed up there. It is LDL I need to reduce, but that was not happening either. Nowadays my GP only does total cholesterol and we have to go private if we want it separated out. But we do now get a 'lipid count' but none seems to know what it is or what range it should be in - I presume this is triglycerides.
     
  6. Osidge

    Osidge Type 2 · Well-Known Member
    Retired Moderator

    Messages:
    1,272
    Likes Received:
    434
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Perhaps the internet requires that its users are able to discern that some information is more credible than others. Without that, it can become a pointless resource.

    Doug
     
  7. Osidge

    Osidge Type 2 · Well-Known Member
    Retired Moderator

    Messages:
    1,272
    Likes Received:
    434
    Trophy Points:
    123
    The lipid profile is the measurement of all your blood fats. In most labs this will look at total, LDL and HDL cholesterol as well as triglycerides. I get all that information from my GP twice a year. http://www.nhspathology.fph.nhs.uk/Core-Service/Test-Directory/Biochemistry/Details.aspx?pID=31

    Doug
     
  8. greycat001

    greycat001 Type 1 · Member

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    23
     
    • Like Like x 4
  9. greycat001

    greycat001 Type 1 · Member

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    23
    Hello,
    Just stop taking them. My diabetic doctor kept insisting that I take statins, I did try them for a week, never felt so unwell. Went to my gp for advice, he told me that no one will be taking them in two years time! I wonder why
     
    • Like Like x 4
  10. dannyw

    dannyw Type 1 · BANNED

    Messages:
    430
    Likes Received:
    1,239
    Trophy Points:
    158
    We'll agree to disagree. So far, you have provided nothing that is any more credible than links I could provide. It's often difficult for some to see the big picture if their minds are already set. This thread is hardly scientific but it seems you are the exception rather than the rule :)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. greycat001

    greycat001 Type 1 · Member

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    23
    Sue the doctors, this is ridiculas, how do they get away with it, this has got to stop!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,914
    Likes Received:
    3,396
    Trophy Points:
    198
    I am not besmirching ASCOT or anyone. I simply make the point that what appears to be an independant trial to see if a med is safe to use was actually funded by the drug manufacturer themselves (with no acknowledgement in the published report). Having twice now come across instances where the raw trial data has been conveniently filtered before publication and subsequent licencing, and having myself suffered two strokes soon after going on to Avandia and Actos, then I too have an agenda. Do I trust Big Pharma? No. Having attended Diabetes seminars, where Big Pharma had trade stands in the conference area, and who were doling out freebies like jelly beans to the attending medical staff, and who offered me coffee with sugar because there were no sweetners on the stand, then I say they only had one thing on their mind, and it was not the patient.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  13. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,914
    Likes Received:
    3,396
    Trophy Points:
    198
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Osidge

    Osidge Type 2 · Well-Known Member
    Retired Moderator

    Messages:
    1,272
    Likes Received:
    434
    Trophy Points:
    123
    I am all for proper diet, weight-loss where appropriate and exercise. It is fantastic that you used the yellow card system. We would all benefit if more people did that. I asked about coming off Metformin when I was in non-diabetic blood glucose results. My GP had a discussion and, given the cardio-protective properties of Metformin and the early research indicating cancer-protective properties, we agreed that I should continue on it.

    Doug
     
  15. Osidge

    Osidge Type 2 · Well-Known Member
    Retired Moderator

    Messages:
    1,272
    Likes Received:
    434
    Trophy Points:
    123
    That will likely be because there will be more statin alternatives by then.

    Regards

    Doug
     
  16. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,914
    Likes Received:
    3,396
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Hey, a quick look at the ASCOT report is interesting. What are we arguing over? The Statin had ****** all effect on lipids. Virtually no difference between Avorastatin vs placebo during LLA period, and again when the trials ended. How they dragged 36% reduction from it I do not see. The reduction was less that I can get from diet changes alone. What a con ! And to cap it all, they were also running a hypertension trial concurrent with the lipid trial, and have not decoupled this from their results. Lousy experimental data in my opinion
     
    • Like Like x 6
  17. robert72

    robert72 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,884
    Likes Received:
    3,622
    Trophy Points:
    178
    36% was the relative reduction (marketing figures). The absolute reduction was marginal.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  18. Mike d

    Mike d Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    7,999
    Likes Received:
    11,323
    Trophy Points:
    198
    The ignorance on the internet is boundless. How does one discern the truth from the lie? Give me a poll any day of the week as it is those people who reflect real world experience, not third hand (and often) biased opinions.

    A DCUK poll would tell me more about this than ANY other resource.
     
  19. Osidge

    Osidge Type 2 · Well-Known Member
    Retired Moderator

    Messages:
    1,272
    Likes Received:
    434
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Not everyone that was on the BP arm was also on the lipid arm and the recording of data about the study participants was continued for 11 years from inception and did not stop at the end of the BPA or LLA. While your views, yet again, on the capability and veracity of the Professors and their teams is noted, many people when the time comes would value any increase in life.

    Doug
     
  20. Osidge

    Osidge Type 2 · Well-Known Member
    Retired Moderator

    Messages:
    1,272
    Likes Received:
    434
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Even with only 212 from the total membership of the forum (approaching 200,000) participating? Perhaps we should stop all research and rely on polls here instead? I guess the thousands of people involved in the ASCOT and other studies are not first-hand (real world) experience by your reckoning. They might be surprised to be viewed as nothing.

    Doug
     
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook