stop diabetes two stigma and find a cure instead of blaming us for being sick

aimee11

Well-Known Member
Messages
52
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Judging by media reports and the ongoing trickle of medical articles, studies and meta-studies, there appears to be a significant correlation between unnecessary refined carbs in the average diet and a number of diseases, including Type 2 and certain cardio-vascular conditions.

As a number of people I know who are neither overweight nor have poor lifestyles (one regularly runs half marathons) have developed type 2, there is clearly more to it than just "not looking after yourself"....

yes this is exactly my point
i was thin and eating boiled veggies and fish or chicken and i exercised daily and yet i am obese and diabetic and i did everything rright
 
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graj0

Guest
They don't.
They tell every overweight, or over drinker, or over eater, or donut lover, or macdonalds lover, or couch potato, to look at their lifestyle. The fact I fitted all that, and was diabetic, didn't affect their advice.
I'm sure if I had gone in with a heart attack, or a stroke, or high blood pressure, or even a sprained ankle, I would have been told to look at my lifestyle.

I also think you would be very hard pushed to find the NHS advising to eat refined carbs as well. They generally advise a moderate amount of food overall, and the preference is towards freshly prepared foods, not prepacked.
I've just had a quick Google, "NHS Advice for type II", the first URL advises a "healthy , balanced diet", if you click on that, it's all about losing weight and amongst other things it recommends processed foods which if I'm not mistaken is prepacked.
Another one of my cousins has just been diagnosed with type II, she was told to "make lifestyle changes", before they even asked about her lifestyle.
 
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douglas99

Well-Known Member
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4,572
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
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Other
I've just had a quick Google, "NHS Advice for type II", the first URL advises a "healthy , balanced diet", if you click on that, it's all about losing weight and amongst other things it recommends processed foods which if I'm not mistaken is prepacked.
Another one of my cousins has just been diagnosed with type II, she was told to "make lifestyle changes", before they even asked about her lifestyle.

Yes, you are very much mistaken, which is a problem that blights the interpretation of the NHS advice.

In context, from the webpage you refer to.

Food processing techniques include freezing, canning, baking, drying and pasteurising products.

Dietitian Sian Porter says: "Not all processed food is a bad choice. Some foods need processing to make them safe, such as milk, which needs to be pasteurised to remove harmful bacteria. Other foods need processing to make them suitable for use, such as pressing seeds to make oil.

"Freezing fruit and veg preserves most vitamins, while tinned produce (choose those without added sugar and salt) can mean convenient storage, cooking and choice to eat all year round, with less waste and cost than fresh."


I'm sure cheese, and oil feature in your diet, so, the NHS seem to be giving advice you are taking, regarding processed foods.

http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Goodfood/Pages/what-are-processed-foods.aspx
 
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graj0

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yes this is exactly my point
i was thin and eating boiled veggies and fish or chicken and i exercised daily and yet i am obese and diabetic and i did everything rright
This would suggest something much more complicated. My poor old GP didn't have a clue why I could consume as little as about 1000 cals a day and exercise 5 days a week and not loose weight. The endocrinologist I saw suggested a gastric band which I might have considered at the time except for the fact in my town patients were told they had to eat 1200 calories a day. May I suggest you look into Nutritional Therapy, it's not for everyone, but they know more than your average GP. With my NT I'm now looking into why my muscles seemed to be starved of the energy they require in the form of ATP. I don't pretend to fully understand, but losing weight isn't just about eating less and exercising more.
 
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aimee11

Well-Known Member
Messages
52
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
That's the thing though isn't it? Refined carbs are bad for everyone, not just diabetics. People who think they are looking after themselves by eating them are in fact harming their bodies. Conversely people are staying away from fats like butter and animal fats when these are healthy. So what is needed is education This won't happen because there is a lot of money to be made in processing carbs and selling them to us and also a lot more money to be made when these foods make us ill and we 'need' drugs to stay alive. We don't need carbs and we don't need the drugs that help us to keep eating carbs. But what would big business say about a message like that?

It is so easy to put right, but sadly it won't happen. So it's up to individuals to find out for themselves.

the problem with processedfood is that they put ingredients in that you would never eat which are not artificial or preservatives. so if they put in wallpaper paste into low fat yoghurt to thicken it they can get away with advertising it as healthy and natural. no one knows if eating so much wallpaper paste causes health problems
 
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douglas99

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Messages
4,572
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Other
the problem with processedfood is that they put ingredients in that you would never eat which are not artificial or preservatives. so if they put in wallpaper paste into low fat yoghurt to thicken it they can get away with advertising it as healthy and natural. no one knows if eating so much wallpaper paste causes health problems

It's as likely to be in pasteurised/processed (see above) high fat version, but possibly the fungicidal version?
 

aimee11

Well-Known Member
Messages
52
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Well I was skinny all my life, I put weight on for a short while after my accident, then it just dropped off and thought I had diabetes. No one took me seriously, despite my gran having Type 1.
I ate properly cutting out wheat etc for years.
By then I had neuropathy in my feet, so I think it was there from my accident.
Then a few years ago, I got told off and that I should add back wheat products.
I put on weight over the last three years, about a 1lb a month, now unable to exercise and in a wheelchair.
Then someone decided to look for diabetes.
So I think
Well I was skinny all my life, I put weight on for a short while after my accident, then it just dropped off and thought I had diabetes. No one took me seriously, despite my gran having Type 1.
I ate properly cutting out wheat etc for years.
By then I had neuropathy in my feet, so I think it was there from my accident.
Then a few years ago, I got told off and that I should add back wheat products.
I put on weight over the last three years, about a 1lb a month, now unable to exercise and in a wheelchair.
Then someone decided to look for diabetes.
So I think the diabetes is there in the genes and people fight against it unknowingly for years, trying to stay slim.
Then either an accident, depression, inability to continue the fight to stay slim, disablement, having babies, getting older, etc etc take people over the precipice and they develop diabetes.
It's no one's fault.
As soon as Dr's open their blinkered eyes and research is done with an open mind, it'll be solved.
But we could be waiting an awful long time for that one :hilarious:

the diabetes is there in the genes and people fight against it unknowingly for years, trying to stay slim.
Then either an accid
ent, depression, inability to continue the fight to stay slim, disablement, having babies, getting older, etc etc take people over the precipice and they develop diabetes.
It's no one's fault.
As soon as Dr's open their blinkered eyes and research is done with an open mind, it'll be solved.
But we could be waiting an awful long time for that one :hilarious:
 

aimee11

Well-Known Member
Messages
52
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Well I was skinny all my life, I put weight on for a short while after my accident, then it just dropped off and thought I had diabetes. No one took me seriously, despite my gran having Type 1.
I ate properly cutting out wheat etc for years.
By then I had neuropathy in my feet, so I think it was there from my accident.
Then a few years ago, I got told off and that I should add back wheat products.
I put on weight over the last three years, about a 1lb a month, now unable to exercise and in a wheelchair.
Then someone decided to look for diabetes.
So I think the diabetes is there in the genes and people fight against it unknowingly for years, trying to stay slim.
Then either an accident, depression, inability to continue the fight to stay slim, disablement, having babies, getting older, etc etc take people over the precipice and they develop diabetes.
It's no one's fault.
As soon as Dr's open their blinkered eyes and research is done with an open mind, it'll be solved.
But we could be waiting an awful long time for that one :hilarious:


this is EXACTLY my story

I ALWAYS did EVERYTHING right

NEVER snacked and NEVER had sodas and always had boiled food and never fried food

always did jazz ballet every night and walked 30 minutes and weights too

I am obese and diabetic

go figure
 
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aimee11

Well-Known Member
Messages
52
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
This would suggest something much more complicated. My poor old GP didn't have a clue why I could consume as little as about 1000 cals a day and exercise 5 days a week and not loose weight. The endocrinologist I saw suggested a gastric band which I might have considered at the time except for the fact in my town patients were told they had to eat 1200 calories a day. May I suggest you look into Nutritional Therapy, it's not for everyone, but they know more than your average GP. With my NT I'm now looking into why my muscles seemed to be starved of the energy they require in the form of ATP. I don't pretend to fully understand, but losing weight isn't just about eating less and exercising more.


my metabolism is so out of whack that the only way for me to stay svelte is have 400 calories a day

trouble is that at that rate my organs are eating each other
 
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Brunneria

Guru
Retired Moderator
Messages
21,889
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I find it really sad to read of fellow type 2s who criticise themselves for being fat couch potatoes and 'causing' their condition.

Especially when they promote that idea on a forum like this.

Even if a person lives a couch potato lifestyle, it is not inevitable that they become type 2.
There are many more obese people who don't have diabetics than who do.

So even if being fat is a contributing factor, it is not the cause.

Add in the fact that type 1s put on weight when using excess insulin
Plus that insulin excess is a classic feature of type 2 (even slim type 2s)
Plus that insulin excess/resistance can predate developing diabetes by decades

How can people claim it was a couch potato lifestyle that caused type 2, when insulin excess/resistance causes all the factors (lethargy, 'greed', lack of energy) that result in a couch potato lifestyle?
It's absurd. Faulty logic. And I really object to it being promoted on this forum.

I'm fine about people saying 'I ate too much, put on weight, and have type 2'
I hate the way people say 'I was a lazy slob, put on weight, and have type 2'

Unless you can go back in time and do a test for insulin resistance and glucose tolerance at the point you turned into a couch potato, then you are denigrating yourself, promoting ignorance, and supporting the same bigotry that appears in the media.

As you can see, I feel strongly about this.
I have spent my entire adult life aware of judgemental glances and criticism. In all that time, the first person who ever validated my body shape was a consultant, who said that, with my contributing factors, she was surprised I wasn't bigger.

The rest of the world may kick us, but we don't have to join in.
 
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aimee11

Well-Known Member
Messages
52
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I've just had a quick Google, "NHS Advice for type II", the first URL advises a "healthy , balanced diet", if you click on that, it's all about losing weight and amongst other things it recommends processed foods which if I'm not mistaken is prepacked.
Another one of my cousins has just been diagnosed with type II, she was told to "make lifestyle changes", before they even asked about her lifestyle.
I find it really sad to read of fellow type 2s who criticise themselves for being fat couch potatoes and 'causing' their condition.

Especially when they promote that idea on a forum like this.

Even if a person lives a couch potato lifestyle, it is not inevitable that they become type 2.
There are many more obese people who don't have diabetics than who do.

So even if being fat is a contributing factor, it is not the cause.

Add in the fact that type 1s put on weight when using excess insulin
Plus that insulin excess is a classic feature of type 2 (even slim type 2s)
Plus that insulin excess/resistance can predate developing diabetes by decades

How can people claim it was a couch potato lifestyle that caused type 2, when insulin excess/resistance causes all the factors (lethargy, 'greed', lack of energy) that result in a couch potato lifestyle?
It's absurd. Faulty logic. And I really object to it being promoted on this forum.

I'm fine about people saying 'I ate too much, put on weight, and have type 2'
I hate the way people say 'I was a lazy slob, put on weight, and have type 2'

Unless you can go back in time and do a test for insulin resistance and glucose tolerance at the point you turned into a couch potato, then you are denigrating yourself, promoting ignorance, and supporting the same bigotry that appears in the media.

As you can see, I feel strongly about this.
I have spent my entire adult life aware of judgemental glances and criticism. In all that time, the first person who ever validated my body shape was a consultant, who said that, with my contributing factors, she was surprised I wasn't bigger.

The rest of the world may kick us, but we don't have to join in.


that is exactly my point

we feel we caused our disease but the fact is that many others who do everything wrong and overeat and eat the wrong foods and never exercise and are very fat never ever get diabetes

and then there are those of us who do everything right and still get fat and become diabetic

certainly dropping carbs does help seeing as diabetes is a fault of metabolism that does not let you metabolise carbs as normal people do but that does not mean you made yourself ill in the first place
 
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douglas99

Well-Known Member
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4,572
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Other
Well, I was a fat lazy slob who had regular medicals, and didn't have any problems with BG, then I was a fat lazy slob that did have a high figure, then I was a thin, active, probably still a slob, that had a greatly improved BG.
I also ate too much.

Beyond that, it's academic now, and won't alter what has happened, and whichever came first doesn't really worry me, I can't go back and change it, I can only work it from now on.
 
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andcol

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Retired Moderator
Messages
3,176
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
This would suggest something much more complicated. My poor old GP didn't have a clue why I could consume as little as about 1000 cals a day and exercise 5 days a week and not loose weight. The endocrinologist I saw suggested a gastric band which I might have considered at the time except for the fact in my town patients were told they had to eat 1200 calories a day. May I suggest you look into Nutritional Therapy, it's not for everyone, but they know more than your average GP. With my NT I'm now looking into why my muscles seemed to be starved of the energy they require in the form of ATP. I don't pretend to fully understand, but losing weight isn't just about eating less and exercising more.

You are taking metformin. That is your answer. It changes the ratio of AMP to ATP to up to 4:1 instead of the normal 1:1 That is why your liver "stores" more glycogen Unfortunately that impacts the rate at which your muscles can process lactic acid and process glycogen
 

this is too difficult two

Well-Known Member
Messages
852
Type of diabetes
Don't have diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
You are taking metformin. That is your answer. It changes the ratio of AMP to ATP to up to 4:1 instead of the normal 1:1 That is why your liver "stores" more glycogen Unfortunately that impacts the rate at which your muscles can process lactic acid and process glycogen
Ish
 

MarkE

Well-Known Member
Messages
72
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
Woo
numerous news items about research show that faulty genes are the cause of both obesity and diabetes two

it is time to stop blaming the poor sick person

Be fair- our glorious lords and masters don't like spending the taxes WE give them on US- and they can hardly start in on cancer victims now can they?

We are simply the easiest targets.

Mind you- I'm not exactly plump, I eat well, and I'm type II with deteriorating bilateral proliferative retinopathy (try saying THAT when tired)...
 

Brunneria

Guru
Retired Moderator
Messages
21,889
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Beyond that, it's academic now, and won't alter what has happened, and whichever came first doesn't really worry me, I can't go back and change it, I can only work it from now on.

Sure. But there is no need to describe yourself in such self-criticising, judgemental terms, where newly diagnosed diabetics will see them.

Most newbies who post on here are already beating themselves up, battling depression and feeling guilt and shame.

None of those emotions are necessary for controlling blood glucose, and may contribute to the depression that is widespread amongst diabetics.

Expressing ideas that are based on faulty logic and reinforce the negatives are not helpful.
 
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douglas99

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,572
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Other
As to reinforcing negatives, you'll have to accept my statements that diabetes has actually improved my outlook on life, and empowered me to take control back, and not only manage the diabetes, but to go past it and do a lot more with my life than I was doing before.
I suppose I could beat myself up, blame myself, blame faulty genes, blame the carbs I used to eat (by choice), but I honestly can't see the point in trying to apportion blame now.
I'm a grown up, I know I'm not going to change the past, I know I can have a future though.
And I'm grown up enough to be able to say what my own personal story is, it doesn't need a sugar coat to be honest.
And I'm not sure how you think that's faulty logic.

I'm also on an extreme diet.
 
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Brunneria

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Messages
21,889
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
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