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stop diabetes two stigma and find a cure instead of blaming us for being sick

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by aimee11, Nov 10, 2014.

  1. Scardoc

    Scardoc · Well-Known Member

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    So, people can eat too much, put on weight, develop T2 and that's ok? What is the difference between someone being lazy, not exercising, putting on weight and developing T2 then? Either way if you eat too much or if you are lazy then your lifestyle is a contributing factor.

    What I think is very dangerous, as stated in my original post, is that people completely refuse to accept that individuals can be to blame for their condition. Do we say the smoker with lung cancer is to blame? A 2006 European study showed that current male smokers were 80 times more likely to develop lung cancer than non-smokers. 80 times. So if you know the risk? In the US they say you are 5 times more likely to develop T2 if you are slightly overweight and 60 times more likely if you are seriously obese. The risk is not a mystery and the rise of T2 in line with weight gain over the years is inescapable.

    Whilst there are many factors at play nothing will ever get solved by ignoring the issue. Yes, people are overweight for a vast number of reasons and if you consider poverty, education, disability, mental health, processed and refined foods as a starting point then you can start to apportion blame. The Government and large corporations will be at the head of the queue. But when you consider our modern lifestyle and the amount of physical activity that has been removed from our daily routine by cars, tractors, supermarkets, washing machines etc and the ease of access to junk food then you encounter another aspect. Personal choice. We are all pretty well educated into the virtues of eating healthily and exercise. Some people, however, do neither and become overweight.

    I think it’s worth remembering how many people on this forum also attribute their current good health to getting a wake-up call through diagnosis of T2. If one message (amongst the many) that this forum passes on is that “you can be to blame if you ignore the risks” then why should it not be out there?
     
  2. Scardoc

    Scardoc · Well-Known Member

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    As above, there is a lifestyle aspect.

    Our genes are not faulty. There are sound evolutionary reasons for humans to have a predisposition towards storing fat. Once upon a time, not too long ago in the grand scheme of things, we did not know where our next meal was coming from. However, we also had to expend a lot of energy getting it or keeping ourselves warm in the food scarce winter. Hence, fat stores.

    All the medical professionals in the World can work on this and still, the unavoidable fact remains that our World and our lifestyle doesn’t have the balance it once had.
     
  3. phoenix

    phoenix Type 1 · Expert

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    @douglas99
    I can see you don't cook. You stuff an éclair or profiterole with crème patissierre not fresh cream (eggs, flour, sugar, milk ) Local artisans here do prepare daily in any case and the windows aren't full except at weekends when demand is high for Saturday dinner or Sunday lunch (bakers here bake 2 or three times a day , they even bake on Christmas Eve to sell on Christmas morning) It's actually really hard to get fresh 'doux' cream here because it isn't really used much!
    I think they would be drummed out of the association if they resorted to using that sort of thickener (and it's actually very hard to open an enterprise if you don't have the correct artisanal qualifications)
    http://www.patisserie-artisanale.com/qui.php

    .
     
  4. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Guru
    Retired Moderator

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    I actually agree with many of your comments. Pity they were couched in such negative terminology.

    But by making your post a response to mine suggests that that you have missed my point.

    And, as I posted earlier, I object to the judgemental tone implied by the use of the word 'blame', and self descriptions such as 'lazy slob'.

    If you choose to cultivate a blame mindset then that is your prerogative. But I do not think it is appropriate to express such judgemental opinions on a forum like this. Especially on such an emotive subject as excess weight. Judge yourself as much as you like, but please refrain from passing judgement on people you have never met, who come to this forum for support, information and encouragement.

    Accepting responsibility for something (where relevant) is helpful, constructive and much more likely to result in improvement - and is widely encouraged on this forum.

    But blame is always destructive.
     
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    #84 Brunneria, Nov 11, 2014 at 6:08 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2014
  5. forty six

    forty six Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Although I do feel that we have had some truly **** medical advice given to us all over the last 30 years, I know that I do blame myself for most of what is now happening to me. Having read more on this subject since being diagnosed I have realised that this is not a death sentence if I am careful and not stupid. Yes I have made changes, cutting portion sizes, trying really hard to follow the 80/20 rules, cooking from scratch etc. Upping protein and lowering carbs and only having 'complex carbs'. I am not 'happy' but now I am testing myself more regularly (no matter what my DN says) I am more settled into this and no longer in denial. I have discovered that pasta does not effect me as much as it seems to do others for example.

    I feel that my life has been out of balance as Scardoc says.

    Zoe Harcombe sums it up very nicely on her website.

    “If we have been eating food in the form that nature intended for 24 hours, agriculture (large scale access to carbohydrates) developed four minutes ago and sugar consumption has increased twenty fold in the last five seconds. I wonder which food is more likely to be responsible for obesity, diabetes, or indeed any modern disease…”

    But and this is the important bit, nobody made me do it. I have free will - we all do - no matter what physical or mental state we are in. I cannot just apportion blame just to make me feel better. That is just lying to myself.

    Genetics do play a part as lets be honest we probably all know someone whose whole family is tall and skinny, no matter how much they eat. So why then is it harder for us to accept that some families will be short and plump/fat/overweight even if they do eat right etc?

    This really is not as simple as calorie in and calorie out - if it were we wouldn't need doctors, dieticians, books and plans to keep us on the straight and narrow.

    Well rant over - now off to take my sugar test before dinner!

    I hope you all have a good evening.
     
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  6. douglas99

    douglas99 I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I don't cook cakes, and I agree you can stuff cakes with a sugar mixture, but I tend to avoid the sugar.
    As to the artisans, I wonder if you seeing the begining of the end, as part of the confederation now includes the Technical Center for Job Pastry CTMP - Centre of Technological Innovation, and innovation never seems to bode well.
     
  7. aimee11

    aimee11 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yes lots of substances have been mentioned but what matters is how much of a substance we have. Sugar, flour, fat, carbs ,and wallpaper paste, in very small quantities all are OK . alas when these ingredients are added to everything, then it is a problem.
     
  8. douglas99

    douglas99 I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    You forgot the chainsaw oil, very popular in burgen soya and linseed bread.
    I eat that as well.
     
  9. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    Wondered why I liked it so much!
     
  10. douglas99

    douglas99 I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I keep my putty in it too, and polish furniture with it.
     
  11. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    Iceland are selling it now!!!!
     
  12. izzzi

    izzzi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    We all know that the average age of being diagnosed with Type 2 is coming down to approximately 39 years old.
    Type 2 diabetes can also develop at any age and is now being seen in children.
    Might help if children had a six month check similar to their dental check, until their old enough to look after themselves.
    Don't you think early diagnose of diabetes can be more helpful towards control.
    Naturally it will come when it is to late for many.
     
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  13. aimee11

    aimee11 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    you mean what I have been saying all along?????????? check thin people too [which includes kids]

    what a fabulous idea why didnt i think of it?

    sorry just having a bit of fun with you and no disrespect meant.

    yes doctors need to take blinkers off and test people who may never be tested for diabetes two instead of only testing the people who they are prejudiced against [obese]

    that would be very helpful and catch more people before they get complications from undiagnosed diabetes 2 and also get more people to watch their diet and exercise properly from an earlier age

    so more diabetics type two would live to a ripe old age and be healthy for longer

    wow what a visionary we all are - especially you izzzi
     
  14. 1andylock

    1andylock Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I wish my doctor had profiled me as a fat smoking driinkng guy and tested me for diabetes and cholesterol and triglycerides then maybe I could have avoided the heart attack and dying 5 times before they could save me. Then I could have avoided the 2 Yerts of mental issues that followed
     
  15. aimee11

    aimee11 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    1andylock that would have been great. As it is all we can do is feel for you and your horrible experience and learn from it to be more vigilant with our own health. Thank you for sharing your story
     
  16. Scardoc

    Scardoc · Well-Known Member

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    Not at all, I blamed myself for getting a speeding fine and points on my license 5 years ago. I haven't done it again and am a lot more respectful of the speed limit. I don't judge everyone, I merely try to express my opinion that there is blame involved and it is dangerous to ignore the fact.

    The prejudice you talk of is determined by risk factors. Resources are spent first and foremost on those most at risk, rightly so in my opinion as the pot of gold in the NHS is not bottomless. Mass testing for T2 and other conditions sounds ideal and, who knows, in the long run could save money. However, eating and exercising properly from an early age is a parents job to pass on. The Government needs to do more to ensure education on this in our schools so future generations are passing that knowledge down. Clearly it's not working now!!

    I see a future where we all have a microchip implanted at birth. As well as tracking our every move so the evil people in the world can be caught, it will monitor our BG levels amongst other things and make an appointment with your Doc. I do also see a bit of a human rights backlash.
     
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  17. aimee11

    aimee11 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Well I believe the risk factor of being overweight is not correct and needs to be updated in view of research that is finding faulty genes. In my own case despite being good and always doing the correct thing all my life a d fighting a losing battle with weight I am now both I'll and fat. Therefore I was obviously I'll well before I was fat and it was the illness that made it such a battle to keep weight off despite eating correctly and exercising every day.

    I cannot be the only one who got diabetes and fat despite never ever doing anything wrong!
     
  18. aimee11

    aimee11 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I have been a total social killjoy all my life. Never drank alcohol never smoked never took drugs unless prescribed never ate sugary foods never ate snack foods never had salad dressings or sauces never had desserts

    Literally had some boiled fish or boiled chicken with some boiled non starchy veggies or a raw salad and maybe boiled egg for breakfast with nothing else just water to drink and went without lunch and went for a walk at lunch time instead of eating.
    Then did two hours of dancing in the evening instead of watching TV

    I did everything correctly and had no bad habits whatsoever all my life

    And yet I am fat and diabetes type 2

    I feel let down like you would not believe

    Maybe I should have lived it up and drank and partied all my life then maybe I would feel I deserve to be diagnosed with diabetes type 2

    So really I am suggesting that growing fat is a symptom of the disease and not a cause. As the pancreas and liver metabolise food differently than normal, people with undiagnosed diabetes find that eating a healthy diet is still converted to excess body fat.

    Once diagnosed, diabetics have to try so much harder for their food intake to not be processed the wrong way by their pancreas and liver than someone with a normal pancreas a d liver.

    So in my case eating and exercising properly all my life did not lead to a good result at all. I cannot be the only one.
     
  19. catherinecherub

    catherinecherub · Guest

    Let's go back to your original post @aimee11


    ................as the heading says I have 21 month old twin boys and I would say they were the answer to my prayers so I believe in prayers

    i have been diagnosed 2 years ago and am managing my blood sugar reasonably well - it hovers around 6 or 7

    I use metformin the highest dose

    so just when do i start to feel better? less tired, less urgent urination? less aching all over? less pins and needles in my fingers and toes?less famished and starving hungry?

    i seem to be doing it all and being on a strict diet and denying myself little pleasures and snacks and do not see ANY benefit whatsoever except in the meter

    yes I know I am saving myself from long term complications but it seems that I am feeling just as unwell constantly

    any suggestions?---------------------



    I feel it would be more productive for you if people could answer your original post. I do not understand why you are still experiencing symptoms and why you are starving hungry. and feel these are the problems that need to be addressed for you so that you can enjoy your life


    This thread seems to be going round in circles and I personally feel that you are angry with your diagnosis. If that is the case how about dealing with your anger and having a read through this article.

    http://www.diabetesexplained.com/the-five-stages-of-grief.html

    There will be more research but as to when is like asking how long is a piece of string. Iin the meantime it would surely be better to focus on managing your diabetes. When and if the time comes that we were not to blame for this chronic condition is the time to celebrate but I would urge you not to focus on the negative portrayals as this will raise your blood pressure and stress levels and do nothing for your overall health.
     
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  20. aimee11

    aimee11 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I just thought of another example .a famous person who was into competitive sport so was eating very healthy all her life and exercising a lot. After this she became a top model and so again she ate healthy and exercised. Then suddenly she started putting on weight for no reason.

    Long story short she finally found out why and was diagnosed with diabetes 2

    This diagnosis despite heathy eating and exercising all her life

    So stop thinking that healthy eating and exercising is a guarantee of good health because it obviously is not
     
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