Stop the diabetes madness!

[Mud Island Dweller]

Jan l read that as Kate being ironic about the usual comments on T2. Ditto to cream bun

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[Alanp35]

Kate - I am horrified by your comment. T2 is NOT "entirely the patient's own fault". I have recently being diagnosed as having T2 following a kidney transplant (genetic issue) one of the side effects of the medication needed is that aout 30% of transplant patients develop T2. So please be very careful about your facts and stop being so judgemental. If Member's on this site can not be supportive of each other, then what is the point. PS: My BMI is 22 I eat a very healthy diet and exercise regularly, so less of the stereotyping. Thanks.

First time I have found this site, whilst looking some info up, if this is the type of comments that are being posted it will also be my last.

If this is upsetting the community report OP to admin



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[academicdiabetic]

There is lots of evidence for both, probably less under the term portion control but lots more for calorie restriction. Here's one for portion control
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17592101
One for GI
http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=7892481
For a totally contrary but seemingly extremely successful trial of a rather whacky sounding diet look up the results of the 6 momth Ma Pi 2 macrobiotic diet ( brown rice, beans and seaweed ! the absolute opposite of a LCHF diet ) in Cuba
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21483296


Seriously one can find evidence for many diets, the difficulty is sorting out the wheat from the chaff. By their very nature diet studies are hard to control and for anything over 6 months it becomes increasingly difficult to motivate people to stick to their assigned diets. (wonder how long people would stick to the Ma Pi diet outside of the metabolic ward) Many trials also are weight loss trials with results for glucose levels and other things 'thrown' in. That doesn't help people with any type of diabetes who don't need to lose weight nor those who have lost it and need to maintain weight and glucose levels.
Often the results with any intervention are less than spectacular. ( though personally, I think that there have been some good results from longer term Med diet ones recently)

I think you say that you come from Sweden. It's worth reading the report of your own SBU scientific committee. They emphasise the lack of quality in most trials . I can give you the link to the English summary but it doesn't have references. I'm sure that the full document will have.http://www.sbu.se/upload/Publikationer/Content1/1/mat_diabetes_eng_smf_110517.pdf

 

[academicdiabetic]

Hi Phoenix,

You seem to have a very good grasp of the literature. Do you know of any studies which look at the evidence for 'normal' levels of blood glucose in the population (for example epidemiological studies)? I have only found three, two of which are under-powered and a third which gives values which do not match the various guideliens for diabetes versus 'normal'. Values given in the NICE and other guidelines are based on 'expert opinion' not evidence in this respect. Thanks!

 

[hanadr]

I have done some extensive reading during the past week and so far as I understand diabetes diagnostic tools and care are abysmal.

Diagnosis: two fasting bg readings at or above 7 OR a OGTT 2h reading above 11.1/12.2 depending on test method.

But why are the limits set so extremely high?

The result is that when the medical staff finally take notice we already have organ damage as this start when bg goes above 6 for any length of time.

we are told to check bg two h after a meal when the levels are going down again, but not to check at 45-60, where bg peaks. Why?

Most of us are told not to check bg at all so we are completely in the dark. And we are told to eat enormous amounts of carbs that will make our bg shoot up and cause more organ damage.

And we are recommended bg targets that are sure to damage us more and lead to stroke, heart failure, blindness, renal failure, amputations, cancer and dementia.

I really don't get this.

I will however be given a bg monitor on prescription tomorrow, after threatening not to eat a single carb ever more in my life until I was given one.

 

[Totto]

Kate - I am horrified by your comment. T2 is NOT "entirely the patient's own fault". I have recently being diagnosed as having T2 following a kidney transplant (genetic issue) one of the side effects of the medication needed is that aout 30% of transplant patients develop T2. So please be very careful about your facts and stop being so judgemental. If Member's on this site can not be supportive of each other, then what is the point. PS: My BMI is 22 I eat a very healthy diet and exercise regularly, so less of the stereotyping. Thanks.

First time I have found this site, whilst looking some info up, if this is the type of comments that are being posted it will also be my last.

Hi Jan! She was ironic!

 

[tonyS54]

Hi Jan! She was ironic!

Agreed it was ironic, personally I wasn't offended in the least.

 

[desidiabulum]

Desi. don't want to deflate you or anyone else (I suspect you will read the paper) but it was one type of MODY. The one that probably goes unnoticed in many people because the only thing that seems to be abnormal is the level at which the bodies glucose levels are kept hence the 'moderate' rise in levels. As such it is a good model fro the effect of slightly higher glucose levels, without any other confounding problems.
There are several other MODY mutations and they all have different effects.

****! Well, it was nice while it lasted! Since they can't (yet) identify the gene involved with mine, I will just have to find out how the story ends myself. Makes it all more exciting, I suppose -- it's fun being An Enigma.

 

[kesun]

I was born with kidney disease & finally lost my function 16yrs ago, after my Renal Transplant I was diabetic, but count as type 2 on insulin. I get so upset at 'proper' diabetics tell me its my own fault, I had no sign of Diabetes before my tx.

Sorry Catden and everyone else who didn't read my post as ironic. I had no idea the sarcasm wouldn't come across. Do you really think a diabetic would post what I did and actually mean it? As I've mentioned elsewhere in this forum, I spent a while with a diagnosis of T2 and was shocked by the sort of attitude from medical professionals that my post satirizes, as well as by my rehabilitation to normal human status when my dx changed.

Kate

 

[Scandichic]

Sorry Catden and everyone else who didn't read my post as ironic. I had no idea the sarcasm wouldn't come across. Do you really think a diabetic would post what I did and actually mean it? As I've mentioned elsewhere in this forum, I spent a while with a diagnosis of T2 and was shocked by the sort of attitude from medical professionals that my post satirizes, as well as by my rehabilitation to normal human status when my dx changed.

Kate

Hi Kate,
The irony made me laugh out loud! Similar experience with diabetic nurse and work colleagues - heart goes out to you and all those who have suffered similar treatment! Attached something which will hopefully bring a smile to everyone's faces! x

 

[izzzi]

Sorry Catden and everyone else who didn't read my post as ironic. I had no idea the sarcasm wouldn't come across. Do you really think a diabetic would post what I did and actually mean it? As I've mentioned elsewhere in this forum, I spent a while with a diagnosis of T2 and was shocked by the sort of attitude from medical professionals that my post satirizes, as well as by my rehabilitation to normal human status when my dx changed.

Kate

Hi, Kate I was one of those that miss-understood your comment, I am one that should never throw stones in glass houses. yet I did

 

[kesun]

Hi, Kate I was one of those that miss-understood your comment, I am one that should never throw stones in glass houses. yet I did

So many silly and hurtful things are said about diabetes being self-inflicted that it's not surprising we assume the worst about any comment

 

[paul-1976]

So many silly and hurtful things are said about diabetes being self-inflicted that it's not surprising we assume the worst about any comment

Couldn't agree more!

 

[Daibell]

Hi,

I think diabetics are not encouraged to eat lot of carbs. Actually diabetics have to limit the carb, eat fiber rich foods (which will slow down the digestion and prevent BG peaking) and othe low GI foods. Take enough protien and fat. Fruits are also to be limited to control BG.
HbA1c less than 6.5 is good.,

I think the point being made is that in the NHS there is a common mantra to 'eat starchy carbs with every meal'. This is not based on any good science but could imply to some (sensibly) to spread the carbs you do eat thru the day or to others (dangerously) to always eat carbs and hence probably have too many. This is a very UK-centric problem but remarkably stupid.

 

[Totto]

Unfortunately I don't think it is UK only. A dear friend of mine is diabetic and he was told rather firmly to eat carbs, particularly bread. He has since diagnosis gained somewhere in the region of 40 kilograms in weight, is on huge doses of insulin, is loosing his sight and has suffered one major heart attack and one minor. I could make the list longer but wont bore you with it.

Him and I have been friends since my teens and I love him dearly - he is gay should anyone start to worry about the state of my marriage- and I weep with frustration when I see him adhere closely to the stupid advice he gets.

I have so far not been given much advice as to diet yet, but my DSN suggested I had one instead of two sandwiches as I said they sent my bg high. She also said I shouldn't avoid any foods but eat as normal. She didn't like it when I said I probably had eaten rice for the last time in my life and shook her head as if she was sad.

I don't understand why we are encouraged to eat things that causes high bg. Had I been a DSN I would say: Test and see what you tolerate. It is your choice, your life, your bg and your organs. I can help you with test strips and advice to help you to keep bg as normal as possible to avoid complications, but you have to do the work.

 

[kesun]

I don't understand why we are encouraged to eat things that causes high bg.

I think it comes from T1 treatment in the days when it was genuinely difficult to measure blood sugar: if you have to choose between the risks of slow death through heart/kidney failure from frequent high BG and sudden death through hypo coma, you'd probably go for the former and worry most about eating enough carbs to make sure the insulin injected was used up at every meal. Of course, one might have hoped medical thinking would have caught up in the intervening 30 years or so ...

Kate

 

[Scandichic]

Unfortunately I don't think it is UK only. A dear friend of mine is diabetic and he was told rather firmly to eat carbs, particularly bread. He has since diagnosis gained somewhere in the region of 40 kilograms in weight, is on huge doses of insulin, is loosing his sight and has suffered one major heart attack and one minor. I could make the list longer but wont bore you with it.

Him and I have been friends since my teens and I love him dearly - he is gay should anyone start to worry about the state of my marriage- and I weep with frustration when I see him adhere closely to the stupid advice he gets.

I have so far not been given much advice as to diet yet, but my DSN suggested I had one instead of two sandwiches as I said they sent my bg high. She also said I shouldn't avoid any foods but eat as normal. She didn't like it when I said I probably had eaten rice for the last time in my life and shook her head as if she was sad.

I don't understand why we are encouraged to eat things that causes high bg. Had I been a DSN I would say: Test and see what you tolerate. It is your choice, your life, your bg and your organs. I can help you with test strips and advice to help you to keep bg as normal as possible to avoid complications, but you have to do the work.

And this is what drives me nuts! I think it is delusional to eat normally with "smaller" portions when it is clear that this does not work for most of us - if I had a pound for every person who had said on this forum that they can't eat normal bread then I would be a very rich woman. I find this advice at best misguided but at worst negligent and am thankful to this forum for pointing me in the right direction! Will your friend not try the LCHF diet?

 

[Daibell]

Would the NHS advise someone who has gluten intolerance to have wheat or someone who is lactose intolerant, like my grandson, to have milk or a 'normal' diet? Of course not but I'm afraid the NHS just doesn't understand diabetes and anything goes.

 

[douglas99]

And this is what drives me nuts! I think it is delusional to eat normally with "smaller" portions when it is clear that this does not work for most of us - if I had a pound for every person who had said on this forum that they can't eat normal bread then I would be a very rich woman. I find this advice at best misguided but at worst negligent and am thankful to this forum for pointing me in the right direction! Will your friend not try the LCHF diet?

But that's the other problem.
LCHF probably won't suit someone who is happy living on a nhs white bread diet.
A low gi diet, with portion control works equally as well, and in a lot of cases is more practical to switch to.
It's always going to be better than a white bread diet in all circumstances as well.

 

[Totto]

I have an Ignored Member alert in my thread so I will assume it is Douglas99 telling us portion control works just fine.

Firstly I want to say to Douglas that I envy him his ability to metabolise carbs as I and so many others lack this ability, see for example my post on my very obese indeed friend.

Secondly, Douglas99, stay off this thread. I thank you for your input but you rarely in these cases anything else to contribute with.