Strawberries & Raspberries keto

[MillieT]

Hi, I have read that these are ok on a keto diet and i'm just not sure now, my gp stopped my Emagliflozin so i have no meds at all now for the last two days, I had 3 strawberries and 8 raspberries last night with heavy cream after a cauli cheese dinner- home made sauce made with lactose free milk almonds and parmesan and woke up on 10.5 does not happen at all, could the fruit be the suspect to take me higher like this, I need to do this right and am checking all over the internet before anything goes in my mouth, i have recipes everywhere and have changed pretty much everything in my cupboards to make sure i'm doing things right.. but it is obvious that i'm not.

When I was taking the empagliflozin my sugars were really low but the two together gave me a really nasty tummy ache and UTI's all the time, I still have those but seems to be subsiding but I'm dead worried about my sugars being so high, i wish to stay around 5 if i can, is this possible on keto?

The only difference with these high sugars is that i'm not going lary or potty (off the wall) like i do when i eat say porridge or bread that i had mentioned before they take me over 100mmol, porridge takes me into my 20's hence the low or zero carb if i can help it diet. i am really quite confused so any advice would be most welcomed.

 

[Goonergal]

Hi @miffli

You’d be better advised to test 2 hours after eating to get a clearer picture of which foods are doing what to your blood glucose levels. The morning reading gives a bit of a clue once you have an established pattern, but could be affected by so many other things.

Personally I find raspberries (just a few, no more than 8) a better bet than strawberries, although it’s sometime since I ate either.

 

[MillieT]

Hi @miffli

You’d be better advised to test 2 hours after eating to get a clearer picture of which foods are doing what to your blood glucose levels. The morning reading gives a bit of a clue once you have an established pattern, but could be affected by so many other things.

Personally I find raspberries (just a few, no more than 8) a better bet than strawberries, although it’s sometime since I ate either.

Hi @Goonergal

I did, two hours after last night i was 8.7, @ 1am i was 8.2 so how on earth can i wake up on 10.5.. it's most bizarre, or i just thought, i did wake up with a very dry mouth- almost stuck together, maybe i went too low and my body threw a lot in to keep me going?

 

[Goonergal]

Do you usually get dawn phenomenon? Could just be that, or perhaps you’re coming down with something.

What was your pre-dinner reading?

 

[MillieT]

Do you usually get dawn phenomenon? Could just be that, or perhaps you’re coming down with something.

What was your pre-dinner reading?

Not when on the medication.
I was 6.6 pre dinner so not as low as I have been, since going keto i have been as low as 4 but on the meds at the same time.

 

[Goonergal]

Not when on the medication.
I was 6.6 pre dinner so not as low as I have been, since going keto i have been as low as 4 but on the meds at the same time.

I’d just keep an eye on things as you adjust to life without the meds. Great that you have comparison data.

 

[MillieT]

It is dawn phenomenon, I just checked again an hour later and am down to 8.2, that's scary, sorry, i suffer from dreadful anxiety hence my worrying about it so much... happier now! x

 

[Goonergal]

It is dawn phenomenon, I just checked again an hour later and am down to 8.2, that's scary, sorry, i suffer from dreadful anxiety hence my worrying about it so much... happier now! x

That’s good news.

 

[Lotties]

Hi, I have read that these are ok on a keto diet and i'm just not sure now, my gp stopped my Emagliflozin so i have no meds at all now for the last two days, I had 3 strawberries and 8 raspberries last night with heavy cream after a cauli cheese dinner- home made sauce made with lactose free milk almonds and parmesan and woke up on 10.5 does not happen at all, could the fruit be the suspect to take me higher like this, I need to do this right and am checking all over the internet before anything goes in my mouth, i have recipes everywhere and have changed pretty much everything in my cupboards to make sure i'm doing things right.. but it is obvious that i'm not.

When I was taking the empagliflozin my sugars were really low but the two together gave me a really nasty tummy ache and UTI's all the time, I still have those but seems to be subsiding but I'm dead worried about my sugars being so high, i wish to stay around 5 if i can, is this possible on keto?

The only difference with these high sugars is that i'm not going lary or potty (off the wall) like i do when i eat say porridge or bread that i had mentioned before they take me over 100mmol, porridge takes me into my 20's hence the low or zero carb if i can help it diet. i am really quite confused so any advice would be most welcomed.

I was surprised when I did an isolated food BG response test with raspberries from the market (note - these were Moroccan bought in mid-winter in UK - they weren't super sweet or overripe)
125g plus 8 tsps ~40ml double cream doesn't hardly raise my own BG at any time of day. This is in contrast to 30g of raw apple which will send it up over 3mmol/L rapidly, even with cream.
Isolate and test. My tested list is small but growing. I've found guesswork, low carb lists and other people's experiences are just a starting point for testing.
There's a theory that gut biome may also affect response, so my plan is to keep on top of my food response validation without going overboard.

 

[Brunneria]

If you were 8.7 2 hrs after food, and then over 10 the following morning, then something is going on, but you probably need to continue testing and keeping a food diary to enable you to spot patterns.

i would urge you to be as systematic as possible.
Test before eating.
Then 2hrs later.
Then at bed time and when you wake up.

it is a lot of testing, I know, but it is the only way (unless you are on a continuous glucose monitor) to build up an overall understanding - and there are so many other factors in play with high morning readings; sleep quality, stress levels, activity levels the day before and during the night, to name but a few).

Personally, I think I might eat exactly the same meal, same portion sizes, in a few days time. And if the morning reading after that is higher than usual, then I would try the meal without dessert, and see what happens. It is a slow (and frustrating) process, but my goodness it pays dividends as you tailor make your way of eating to your body.

once you have a detailed picture of your familiar food choices, then continuously testing becomes redundant, and you can ease back to just new foods, or unfamiliar combinations.

 

[Oldvatr]

Acouple of years ago there was a celebrity diet of raspberries in a keto WOE, and because it was lacking other nutrients it was lambasted to heck by the establishment. But it was a 'celebrity' diet, and had quite a following for a while. Think it has joined the carrot diet in a backwater somewhere by now.

Fruit is touted as being fructose, so can be eaten 5 a day without spiking blood sugars. Those of us here more experienced know that that is not the case. Then there is the error made that fructose is safe, but it is now being linked to possibly causing Insulin Resistance in Type 2 diabetes.

The elephant in the room that most media outlets will not tell you is that as fruit ripens, the fructose converts to sucrose naturally, and so ripe fruit will raise bgl faster than unripe fruit.

Berries are normally recommended instead of the pulpier fruita, but consume in moderation, Tropical fruits are best avoided for T2D.

There is also a body of thought that freezing the berries may make any starches in them resistant and less likely to add to the sugar levels. It sems to be true for breads and rice, but I think minimal effect in fruit since these are generslly low in gluten.

 

[Listlad]

Acouple of years ago there was a celebrity diet of raspberries in a keto WOE, and because it was lacking other nutrients it was lambasted to heck by the establishment. But it was a 'celebrity' diet, and had quite a following for a while. Think it has joined the carrot diet in a backwater somewhere by now.

Fruit is touted as being fructose, so can be eaten 5 a day without spiking blood sugars. Those of us here more experienced know that that is not the case. Then there is the error made that fructose is safe, but it is now being linked to possibly causing Insulin Resistance in Type 2 diabetes.

The elephant in the room that most media outlets will not tell you is that as fruit ripens, the fructose converts to sucrose naturally, and so ripe fruit will raise bgl faster than unripe fruit.

Berries are normally recommended instead of the pulpier fruita, but consume in moderation, Tropical fruits are best avoided for T2D.

There is also a body of thought that freezing the berries may make any starches in them resistant and less likely to add to the sugar levels. It sems to be true for breads and rice, but I think minimal effect in fruit since these are generslly low in gluten.

On the topic of ripening, this was a thread I started some time back...

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/unripened-fruit-vegetables.162173/#post-2005659

 

[MillieT]

Juts to update, this morning i was again high @ 10mmol and feeling really jittery and light headed, i've had breakfast = bacon and egg and it has not moved yet, shall try when i get back from the shops..

 

[MillieT]

Last night i was 8.5 so close to the other day, i have just got home and tested and am on 8.2 which is higher that i was when on the empagliflozin, i had breakfast and nothing to eat in between until now and i'm only snacking on cheese, i have not bought anymore strawbs or raspberries :/

 

[TriciaWs]

If you want to try isolating your response try just the cauliflower cheese (weigh all the ingredients), then add in raspberries and cream, lastly the strawberries - I found strawberries raised my BS more than the same carb count amount of raspberries. Partly I think they break down faster but also modern strawberries are bred to be much sweeter so the carb count might underestimate the sugars?

Also, the carbs in almond milk vary so check the ingredients and the 'unsweetened' ones often contain maltodextrin which could be a problem.
Try a little cream and water with cheese for the sauce?

 

[Resurgam]

I found that eating a small amount of carbs with breakfast - usually as a salad or stirfry - was the best option, as my levels without any carbs were higher than with about 10 gm of carbs. I think it calms that 'ever so helpful' response of the liver and stops it throwing out glucose.

 

[MillieT]

If you want to try isolating your response try just the cauliflower cheese (weigh all the ingredients), then add in raspberries and cream, lastly the strawberries - I found strawberries raised my BS more than the same carb count amount of raspberries. Partly I think they break down faster but also modern strawberries are bred to be much sweeter so the carb count might underestimate the sugars?

Also, the carbs in almond milk vary so check the ingredients and the 'unsweetened' ones often contain maltodextrin which could be a problem.
Try a little cream and water with cheese for the sauce?

Well I done some shopping today and omitted the berries, i tend to give things up if they effect me, the cauli cheese was only a small one between two and we didn't finish it all off, neither of us eat like we used to especially since illness. I don't actually get on with almond milk, I use lactose free milk all the time for over a year now, i thicken it in say a cheese sauce using ground almonds.

When i got home today i picked on some cheeses, a small piece of Stilton and piece of brie and a cup of tea and i have passed out since then which is odd, i just woke up again and i'm on 9.0 mmol so must have been higher to pass out, I have mentioned before that i go a little potty when my sugars go above 8mmol and i did a bit today but i have woke up with the nastiest headache... I have checked and those cheeses are ok for low- 0 carb diet, i can't understand why mu sugars should increase, i was even tempted to take an empagliflozin to help take them down because i feel so bad..

 

[HSSS]

When i got home today i picked on some cheeses, a small piece of Stilton and piece of brie and a cup of tea and i have passed out since then which is odd, i just woke up again and i'm on 9.0 mmol so must have been higher to pass out, I have mentioned before that i go a little potty when my sugars go above 8mmol and i did a bit today but i have woke up with the nastiest headache... I have checked and those cheeses are ok for low- 0 carb diet, i can't understand why mu sugars should increase, i was even tempted to take an empagliflozin to help take them down because i feel so bad..

same post with reply here https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/worried-about-ketoacidosis.170880/#post-2194100

 

[MillieT]

Thank you @HSSS , Same again this morning, woke up on exactly 10mmol taken at 7.30am and slowly going down. Feeling calm though and not jittery which is a first, no headache and my uti has completely gone though insatiably thirsty and slightly snappy. Please excuse but even though i write these things down at least i can come back and check here too, i'm trying to find patterns, there is obviously one here being at that level for three days out of four.

@Resurgam Thank you, I had stir fry for dinner last night chicken breast, 2 inches of finely diced chorizo, pak choi, beansprouts, pieces of bell peppers, 1 x medium chilli, onion, garlic, ginger, spinach, fennel, broccoli, PH salt + pepper + spices, i tried this to see if it had any effect on my morning readings... tonight i'm having the meat loaf recipe given by @Goonergal - can't wait lol.

I really appreciate the advice everyone is giving though i have to reiterate i am taking supplements for potassium and what have you, i have salt on every meal though am unable to consume vast amounts due to high blood pressure, i already drink perhaps 2 litres of spring water a day, i just enjoy it ice cold. I do occasionally have a snack of pork scratchings though i'm not keep on the standard table salt and avoid it if i can, i buy pretty much all organic and free from food so all of this is very expensive, even down to my £15 a kilo for organic almonds :| (i think these have higher carb amounts than non organic, i keep meaning to check- brain fog again) I buy them as don't like the idea of killing bees!

 

[Resurgam]

Try swapping to some cheaper meats - I get chicken thighs, with bone and skin - they are about £2 a kilo which is a big difference compared to fillets.
Organic is no advantage for treating diabetes - though I always get free range organic eggs as I kept poultry in the past and know how they love a more natural way of life. I used to grow things in the garden when I had a garden of any size.