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Swiss Re Food For Thought 2018 Conference

Discussion in 'Community Submitted Guides & Links' started by Indy51, Jun 15, 2018.

  1. Indy51

    Indy51 Type 2 · Expert

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  2. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    I think his COI are too large to make him open minded.. when you build a career on severe calorie restriction would you really want to hear about LCHF being just as effective? Very few are as open to change as Prof Noakes...and when they see what happened there can we be surprised....
     
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  3. Juicyj

    Juicyj Type 1 · Expert
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    Hello @CherryAA please confirm if you wish your thread to be merged with the other thread on this topic ? Thanks J
     
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  4. CherryAA

    CherryAA Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    sure, please do
     
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  5. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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  6. Juicyj

    Juicyj Type 1 · Expert
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    Hi @CherryAA Thanks for advising, that's done :)
     
  7. CherryAA

    CherryAA Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I have been priviliged to attend both of the conferences, and being the slightly noise lady that I am, also both make a few points and have conversations with a few of the experts including both of the diabetes.co.uk representatives
    Nina Teicholz, Gary Taubes, Zoe Harcombe, Eric Westman, Georgia Eades, Adele Hite, Dr Aseem Malhotra, Dan Mozzafarian and Salem Yusuf , Carolin Zinn and Dr Unwin and many more. All truly fascinating characters.

    I was also asked to give interviews for a couple of different documentaries.

    I had a rather vehement conversation with Mr Mozzafarian where he informed me in no uncertain terms that regardless of my own health improvements, if I did not move towards the recommended diet I would develop future health problems as a diet rich in meat was clearly less than optimal and that no matter how many N=1 come forward, they will never be valid science compared to the results obtained by epidemiology - needless to say that particular opinion got short shrift with him ( and is now recorded as part of a potential documentary) .

    I was also privileged to spend some time with Dr. Rod Taylor . Interestingly whilst it is very clear that for him the use of shakes is entirely a matter of convenience and of course one should use real foods, he is also totally convinced one needs to lose weight in order to recover even if you are already slim. (ie your personal fat threshold is too high) To me that was an example of exactly what happens in science. You find a solution and it quickly becomes the only solution. In practise I have improved my hba1C by 10 more points ( 44 to 34 ) whilst putting ON some weight as I try to maximise my good uality nutrient intake after many years of deficiency.
    On Roy Taylors, definition Iam now clearly within my " personal fat threshold" and yet I am still outsize and I would still much prefer not to haev the extra bits healthy or not.

    This study from Japan in 2008 which informed my own journey uite clearly shows that massive improvements in metabolic health can occur in already slim people already only weighing 59kg as a result of CARBOHYDRATE RESTRICTION and by looking at myself, in obese people who stay remain obese if they eat the right things . Eating the right things will naturally bring weight down to a certain level in any event, after that it will still rquire hard graft.

    I did undertake to send the study to Dr Taylor

    https://nutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-7075-6-21

    My take away message was two fold
    a) the traditional community knows it is on the ropes because there is too much robust evidence starting to come forward, but it will be a long fight for capitulation
    b) the low carb commuity needs to get its act together - in a few areas :

    Properly defining what its terminology means,
    Co-ordinating efforts across different countries, practises and specialites
    Ensuring that in fighting for their own particular proposed solution we do not dissipate the bigger message which is
    T2 CAN BE REVERSED THROUGH NUTRITION and the easiest way to get started is restricting STARCH and SUGARS and SNACKS

    The definition of reversal needs to be clear andclealry linked to nutrition

    c) N=1 Needs to become N=1 Million
    We need to overwhelm epidemiology with data of our own.
     
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  8. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    That is exactly why I was angry!
     
  9. Indy51

    Indy51 Type 2 · Expert

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    Finally reached the final interview of Day 1 - I think I'm going into major fangirl mode over Des aka John Ionnidis ;)
     
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  10. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    Well, I would buy a second hand car from him!
     
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  11. CherryAA

    CherryAA Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Oh I knew I was speaking for many of us . I was kinda incadescent to be honest and interestingly I noticed a sound boom hovering over us as we were speaking. So I assume someone actually caught the conversation with Mozzafarian on tape. Later I was asked by two separate film crews to record interviews with them about the situation - so who knows what is going to turn up from that.
     
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  12. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    When I had finished viewing I put the kettle on to make a coffee. I was shouting at the kettle so much I swear the steam was blue. I found it (the conference) really balanced until the end when these 'unguarded' comments were made. It is a shame that there was dissent from the vegetarian gentleman with the white moustache and the younger woman (Spanish? Italian?) who shouted over Ionnides at one point. That was unprofessional and graceless.
     
  13. ringi

    ringi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Remember that losing fat is not the same as losing weight, it is very possible that someone with a low carb diet high in protein will lose fat while gaining weight. A bit of exercise makes this more likely.

    Hence some people can get below their personal fat threshold without losing weight.

    Also even without losing any fat, we can get better BG results with low carb. Clearly these will not translate into better GTT test results, or 'first inslin response rates'.
     
  14. CherryAA

    CherryAA Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I think whenever your long held belief system is under threat it is bound to cause ill feeling.

    I do think its easy to understimate what Swiss Re achieved in organising this. Actually get Watter Willet and Dan Mozaffarian and Jennie Brande Miller into the same room and presenting their own case to a knowledgeable audience, where there were experts on hand to repudiate some of the more preoposterous claims was wonderful.

    For me , hearing Mozaffarian repeat what is clearly utter claptrap to any diabetic who has worm a libre freesyle for more than ten minutes brought home to me, just how hard we are going to have to fight to change he face of epidemiology. Even if it so happened to come up with a coherent result, it would still be overtaken by personal data now becoming available in bulk via supermarket records, and phone apps. Traditional epidemiological studies using questionaires are dead anyway just like fax machines. I guess the scientists that remain standing will be those who find a way to work with new technology. On the face of it I dont't put Mozafarain in that group no matter how eminent.

    Interestingly I was contacted by a university that wanted me to participate in something last week, only to be told that I could ONLY send them info by FAX. I guess it will take awhile for them to also recognise that faxes are not exactly necssary anymmore and indeed if you do get one its only bcause soemeone made one up looking like a fax on the interent!

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/191863/sales-of-fax-machines-in-the-us-since-2005/
     
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  15. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    My perspective is different. I have never viewed a conference of any kind before so had no preconceptions. Yes, I recognised a few faces, Malhotra, Teicholz, Hallberg, Taylor and Unwin but I am not in awe of any of the boffins (yet). This means that even though I am a fan of LCHF I am still open to ideas and concepts that might not sit well with many. I wouldn't argue that Swiss Re havn't pulled off a major feat getting all these experts in one room at the same time
    Perhaps I am asking too much when I think that such an intelectual pool cannot find consensus at the most basic level. As Sarah Hallberg put it, there are three known, proven approaches to the T2/obesity epidemic, I found myself thinking that these boffins can and do influence government policy and yet there doesn't seem to be a cohesive effort to make the changes necessary quite as quickly as the situation demands.
    I was left with the overall impression that there were egos involved that were perhaps hemmed in by the size of the auditorium. Colour me cynical but this problem isn't going away anytime soon.
     
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  16. CherryAA

    CherryAA Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I too am utterly frustrated about the speed of change and the disparate interest groups. I do think that Swiss Re involvement is a game changer becuase they truly do have an interest in making this work.

    The LCHF guys have been working in isolation and shunned by the establishment for so long that we who simply tried it cannot begin to see why they dont just announce it and get on with it and they know the uphill battle they have faced so far.

    To me the next steps are

    a) find a way to consolidate the various diabetes groups into a coherent umbrella
    b) find a way to describe reversal consistently that enables the three basic methods
    i) carb restriction ii) rapid weight loss iii) intermittent fasting into a single presentation that all three groups can sign upto and that can be done as a vegan,vegetarian, omnivore or carnivore
    c) push the message out reliably and consistently through the popular press
    d) find a way to truly make NEquals1million people a viable goal
    e) change the guidelines to ensure that T2Prevention and Reversal Through Nutrition are clearly stated dietary options.
    f) get the ridiculous saturated fat warning removed off food labels to allow industry to reformulate foods properly.

    All the pieces are in place, we need some proper co-ordination to take the thing global and we need some PR support to get the message out relentlessly using the same starting point in terms of hashtags

    eg #T2RTN. T2 reversal through Nutrition
    and #T2PTN T2 prevention through Nutrition

    All doctors need to be aware that T2PRN is possible
    All doctors need to know that T2PTN is necessary with elevated Hba1C or other metablic syndrome markers
    and reversal should be defined as achieving Hba1C at 42, or 6% or less and keeping it there

    the same message needs to go to insurers the create a category for life insurance etc that allows people to take credit for their efforts in premiums

    None of the above is rocket science ! not that it makes it any easier to do. (Oh if only I ruled the world lol )
     
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  17. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    That would be an interesting world to live in!
     
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  18. CherryAA

    CherryAA Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    ( I can't be worse than Trump ! - there again - its hard to see who could )
     
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  19. Safi

    Safi Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    This talk/Q&A was the highlight for me - he put some boo boos on some feelings but was so polite, calm & rational (& correct!) compared to some others......
     
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  20. Indy51

    Indy51 Type 2 · Expert

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    @MrsGruffy - again on the subject of salt, you might want to watch Salim Yusuf's presentation at around 6 hours into the video above at post #7 (Day 2 of the conference).
     
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    #40 Indy51, Jun 19, 2018 at 12:38 PM
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
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