Swiss Re Food For Thought 2018 Conference

NicoleC1971

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I too am utterly frustrated about the speed of change and the disparate interest groups. I do think that Swiss Re involvement is a game changer becuase they truly do have an interest in making this work.

The LCHF guys have been working in isolation and shunned by the establishment for so long that we who simply tried it cannot begin to see why they dont just announce it and get on with it and they know the uphill battle they have faced so far.

To me the next steps are

a) find a way to consolidate the various diabetes groups into a coherent umbrella
b) find a way to describe reversal consistently that enables the three basic methods
i) carb restriction ii) rapid weight loss iii) intermittent fasting into a single presentation that all three groups can sign upto and that can be done as a vegan,vegetarian, omnivore or carnivore
c) push the message out reliably and consistently through the popular press
d) find a way to truly make NEquals1million people a viable goal
e) change the guidelines to ensure that T2Prevention and Reversal Through Nutrition are clearly stated dietary options.
f) get the ridiculous saturated fat warning removed off food labels to allow industry to reformulate foods properly.

All the pieces are in place, we need some proper co-ordination to take the thing global and we need some PR support to get the message out relentlessly using the same starting point in terms of hashtags

eg #T2RTN. T2 reversal through Nutrition
and #T2PTN T2 prevention through Nutrition

All doctors need to be aware that T2PRN is possible
All doctors need to know that T2PTN is necessary with elevated Hba1C or other metablic syndrome markers
and reversal should be defined as achieving Hba1C at 42, or 6% or less and keeping it there

the same message needs to go to insurers the create a category for life insurance etc that allows people to take credit for their efforts in premiums

None of the above is rocket science ! not that it makes it any easier to do. (Oh if only I ruled the world lol )
I agree with all your points and have asked our (Diabetes UK local group) rep on the local CCG hcp and patient group to mention:
T2 Rtn as a true first line of treatment (usually given lip service but undelivered) now that Taylor et al have a proof of the concept for shrinking visceral fat to achieve reversal quickly in most cases...The other methods (low carb, bariatric surgery and/or fasting are different ways of skinning that liver/pancreatic fat cat). NICE may go on to evaluate this dietary approach and I hope they will now also add low carb into that comparison with Low Fat and Mediterranean diets.
Secondly, I believe there should be more honest conversations with patients about the overall risks of taking a medication versus nutrition approach. I saw my CCG guidelines in which the main criteria appeared to be ability to lower bgs and cost with little regard for the drugs' impact on diabetic co morbidiites. Patients assume that if they reduce their blood glucose with medication then this is just as cardio protective as doing it via diet and lifestyle and as far as I know this is not the case with most of the drugs and particularly insulin and S U s if no dietary changes are made.
So if we can't rule the world we can start in our own surgeries and CCGs whose collboration we need to get the message out to the public.
 
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ringi

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One issue we have is that low carb diet advice works so much better when it is wrapped in HOPE and given by someone who have experienced the benefits in themselfs or others. Hence it is not enough for a GP to say "try low carb, then come back in 12 weeks time for the pills".

We have a big issue in GP not spending time with people who health is improving, hence GP have little hope, as they spend most of theor life's with people who are getting worse.
 
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NicoleC1971

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One issue we have is that low carb diet advice works so much better when it is wrapped in HOPE and given by someone who have experienced the benefits in themselfs or others. Hence it is not enough for a GP to say "try low carb, then come back in 12 weeks time for the pills".

We have a big issue in GP not spending time with people who health is improving, hence GP have little hope, as they spend most of theor life's with people who are getting worse.
True hence the false belief that diabetes is progressive and irreversible (it is if you treat with drugs only) but the likes of David Unwin are leading the way and offer support to GPs directly on DietDoctor if you can get the GP or perhaps at least the Diabetes GP lead in any practice, to look at it! I work with the local Diabetes UK group and we are totally frustrated about our ability to get to our target community and talk to them. We find it difficult to do this from outside the NHS and to date have not had much support from within.
 

Guzzler

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Hope. It's a powerful driver, without it there is no change. We see it every day on this forum, people giving hope and getting it through our little triumphs, our little stories. Our stories matter to us and to those coming up behind us. It is what David and Jen Unwin are all about and for them, working with us little people, it works and it has been proven to work. The responses he got from the panel must have been frustrating for David, I got the distinct smell of patronise from the boffins, are they so far from the goal that it has now become indistinct?
 

MrsGruffy

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@MrsGruffy - again on the subject of salt, you might want to watch Salim Yusuf's presentation at around 6 hours into the video above at post #7 (Day 2 of the conference).
I've just finished watching those 2 very long streams from the conference and I am just sitting here gobsmacked - lucky my fingers are still finding the keys. I know I have my own bias - it is really hard to ignore your very own n = 1 results when you aren't telling any fibs or misleading yourself, and you know you aren't really a precious little individual flower from planet mars, but a fairly standard run of the mill human.

The GP at the end - who asked about how GPs could get involved in research and his subsequent rebuff - it felt like he was told "do your own little feel good bizzo, but leave the real stuff to the real scientists" just made me realise how completely cut off from the real world a lot of the scientists/academics are. The only glimmer of hope was that the people I've been watching/learning from in the last few months were very well represented, so even the scientific community recognise their impact/power and possibly fear the impact that they're having.

I feel so angry. I feel I've done everything I've been advised in the last few years to improve my health, and the truth is, if I had continued to listen to the conventional advice, I'd be getting sicker and sicker. Notwithstanding I have abused my body for many years in very many ways, so I can't expect to reverse a lifetime of abuse by a few years of good responsible health behaviour, but the thing is, that's exactly what would have got the blame if I had done exactly as advised and died early anyway (rather than their advice and guidelines actually making me sicker than I need be). I'm not the sharpest crayon in the box, but I'm not the bluntest or most broken either. I fear for those many, many people who won't take their health in their own hands, and who don't have the resources to question and dispute what their HCPs tell them. Apart from this community in this forum, I have zilch support for the new lifestyle of LCHF and fasting I have embarked upon. My family, friends and HCPs all think it's somewhere between a fad and extremely dangerous. It's not that I need anyone to agree with me, it's that I'd like to feel respected for my choices and encouraged for taking a very active role in my own health recovery. Hopefully the proof of the pudding will be in the eating, in the longer term. Why aren't they interested in us?
 

Guzzler

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I've just finished watching those 2 very long streams from the conference and I am just sitting here gobsmacked - lucky my fingers are still finding the keys. I know I have my own bias - it is really hard to ignore your very own n = 1 results when you aren't telling any fibs or misleading yourself, and you know you aren't really a precious little individual flower from planet mars, but a fairly standard run of the mill human.

The GP at the end - who asked about how GPs could get involved in research and his subsequent rebuff - it felt like he was told "do your own little feel good bizzo, but leave the real stuff to the real scientists" just made me realise how completely cut off from the real world a lot of the scientists/academics are. The only glimmer of hope was that the people I've been watching/learning from in the last few months were very well represented, so even the scientific community recognise their impact/power and possibly fear the impact that they're having.

I feel so angry. I feel I've done everything I've been advised in the last few years to improve my health, and the truth is, if I had continued to listen to the conventional advice, I'd be getting sicker and sicker. Notwithstanding I have abused my body for many years in very many ways, so I can't expect to reverse a lifetime of abuse by a few years of good responsible health behaviour, but the thing is, that's exactly what would have got the blame if I had done exactly as advised and died early anyway (rather than their advice and guidelines actually making me sicker than I need be). I'm not the sharpest crayon in the box, but I'm not the bluntest or most broken either. I fear for those many, many people who won't take their health in their own hands, and who don't have the resources to question and dispute what their HCPs tell them. Apart from this community in this forum, I have zilch support for the new lifestyle of LCHF and fasting I have embarked upon. My family, friends and HCPs all think it's somewhere between a fad and extremely dangerous. It's not that I need anyone to agree with me, it's that I'd like to feel respected for my choices and encouraged for taking a very active role in my own health recovery. Hopefully the proof of the pudding will be in the eating, in the longer term. Why aren't they interested in us?

Couldn't have put it better myself. The GP at the end is Dr. David Unwin, he was so intrigued by a patient who had made a remarkable improvement in her diabetes management that he looked further. That patient had been/is a member here and had taken up LCHF and Dr. Unwin joined this forum to learn more. To cut a long story short, he runs a low carb practice, has saved his practice thousands of pounds and helped his staff and his patients improve their health. He also teaches other GPs on how to help T2 patients. This is why I was so angry at the way he was dismissed at the conference, my overriding feeling was that the scientists have lost touch to a certain extent with the people, they just scream number cruncher at me now.
 

CherryAA

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Well it turns out that epidemiologists may not bel istening but the BMJ is going to be on the side of helping us get our message across. I wrote an article to the BMJ in response to the " epidemiology" note that Dan Mozzafarian put out before the conference.

Much to my astonishment - the BMJ have published it ! My very first scientific publication lol .

https://www.bmj.com/content/360/bmj.k822/rr-15

(Actually I got the harvard bit wrong , it turnss out the nwspaper that reported it was a Harvard study got that wrong it was actually one done in Canada by an outfit sharign the stage with harvard at the conference...... oops ! Not to worry. )

well well well!
 

bulkbiker

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Well it turns out that epidemiologists may not bel istening but the BMJ is going to be on the side of helping us get our message across. I wrote an article to the BMJ in response to the " epidemiology" note that Dan Mozzafarian put out before the conference.

Much to my astonishment - the BMJ have published it ! My very first scientific publication lol .

https://www.bmj.com/content/360/bmj.k822/rr-15

(Actually I got the harvard bit wrong , it turnss out the nwspaper that reported it was a Harvard study got that wrong it was actually one done in Canada by an outfit sharign the stage with harvard at the conference...... oops ! Not to worry. )

well well well!

Brilliant effort well done! And Moseley writing a LCHF piece in the Daily Fail so even he was listening...
 
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CherryAA

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Brilliant effort well done! And Moseley writing a LCHF piece in the Daily Fail so even he was listening...

That might explain why a boom suddenly appeared above Mozafarian's head recording our conversation ! :)
 

Robbity

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Just as an aside, when I see the vid before I expand it the gentleman on the right in the white suit looks like Des O'Connor! Can't wait to hear what he has to say. :)
I thought he looked familiar too but being slightly befuddled at the moment couldn't say why - but now you've mentioned it...!!

Robbity