1. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2021 »
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Guest, stay home, stay safe, save the NHS. Stay up to date with information about keeping yourself and people around you safe here and GOV.UK: Coronavirus (COVID-19). Think you have symptoms? NHS 111 service is available here.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

Taking insulin without food

Discussion in 'Insulin' started by LeanneSpain., May 26, 2018.

  1. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

    Messages:
    8,613
    Likes Received:
    5,179
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Here's my B.Sc coming out again - adults do not make fat cells, once you are starting to pull yourself up onto your back legs and causing consternation about the ornaments, fat cells no longer divide, they just expand and contract in size.
     
  2. LeanneSpain.

    LeanneSpain. Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Just a follow up to this. Spoke to a different nurse AND doctor today and the first nurse was wrong(as we all knew)
     
    • Like Like x 3
  3. skph

    skph Type 2 · Active Member

    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    28

    It's very dangerous to do what you did.

    Insulin will cause your blood glucose to be used up either metabolise into energy fuel for the cells or store as fats reserves. In any case if your glucose goes extremely low you get hypoglycema and you start to feel dizzy body starts to hyperventilate might even faint if you do not administer a countermeasure of sugary food.

    If you do not eat, your body may not have enough fats to produce glucose then you experience that hypoglycema attack.
     
  4. skph

    skph Type 2 · Active Member

    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    28

    You need water fasting. Meaning fasting and drink only plain water. Let your body self heal and repair. Burn off your excessive body fats. Rejuvenate your liver and let your own body insulin take back control. Burn ketones instead. It's more efficient fuel as compared to glucose. Ketogenesis in ketosis metabolism function.

    Insulin resistance is because your cells rejects glucose and not because any of them nor insulin are not working (wrong diagnostic conclusion). The cells just can't take in anymore of the glucose - be it as fuel or as fat reserves.
     
  5. tim2000s

    tim2000s Type 1 · Expert
    Retired Moderator

    Messages:
    8,914
    Likes Received:
    11,784
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Hi @skph - I'm afraid you are simply wrong in almost everything you say here.

    1. It is only dangerous to take insulin without food if the amount of insulin you take is inappropriate for your current glucose level. The whole essence of "Correction doses" is that they bring your glucose levels back to your target without food. And that's before we start on dawn phenomenon where your liver produces glucose that needs countering.

    2. Glucose is not produced in any meaningful way from body fat. The process for producing glucose when there is no external source of glucose is known as Gluconeogenesis and is the conversion of protein to glucose by the liver.

    Please make sure you're aware of the facts before posting statements such as these.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  6. skph

    skph Type 2 · Active Member

    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Well said.

    But whatever the case be, anyone under the medical care of a certified doctor must be made aware of any dietary changes before embarking on it.

    The doctor must agree to whatever changes you gonna implement.

    Next, I must here correct you as Glycogeneonesis the liver will use glycogen and not protein stored as reserve fuel and convert to glucose to supply to wherever needed. If everything else depleted, then protein be used. I'm not expert. I'm just stating whatever been researched. I'm no doctor either. Just quoting from the real McCoys.

    Not to be rude. But whatever it is, we all are here to get educated and eventually cured.

    If I'm wrong. Then it's just not my name or reputation at stake. Perhaps the Creator should intervene here. It's His Design anyway. We are just the victims trying to get well. Can you get that truth? Hope so. So don't get me wrong ok!?
     
  7. LeanneSpain.

    LeanneSpain. Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    68
    What? How is it dangerous to correct a high blood sugar reading? I do understand hypos and how to treat them. The nurse that told me this informed me as recent that she picked me up wrong that me correcting my bs was the right thing to do?!
     
    • Like Like x 3
  8. LooperCat

    LooperCat Type 1 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,219
    Likes Received:
    7,628
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Jumping in a little late to the party here, as everyone (and your doc etc) has said, the nurse it plain wrong. Insulin very basically just unlocks the door in the cell membrane to allow the glucose to enter from the bloodstream to be burned as fuel by the mitochondria. It doesn’t need slices of bread to “work on”. All it does is hoover the glucose out of your blood and shove it into the cells.

    DKA is caused by an unholy trinity of no insulin, high BG and dehydration - not insulin being injected as a correction dose with no food. The very worst would be a hypo if you got the dose wrong.

    Insulin doesn’t act on fat and you can’t make glucose from fat - just carbs and protein.

    I regularly inject without food - Small corrections of just a half or a whole unit to nudge my levels into line, and a bigger shot foe the dawn phenomenon. As long as you keep track of how much insulin you have sloshing around (I use the bolus calculator in the MySugr app), even stacking small doses shouldn’t be a problem, although it’s quite an advanced trick that not all health professionals like us to do.

    Sounds like you’re doing all the right things :)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. LooperCat

    LooperCat Type 1 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,219
    Likes Received:
    7,628
    Trophy Points:
    198
    The OP is type one, not two. Insulin resistance isn’t our issue, it’s a dead pancreas - we don’t produce any “body insulin” at all.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. skph

    skph Type 2 · Active Member

    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    28

    Pardon me for that I am not aware that you have consulted your doctor.

    Please always ask your doctor before attempting any changes as I always do for myself. My doctor must agree to my plan before I proceed.
     
  11. skph

    skph Type 2 · Active Member

    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    28

    Noted. And apology. As the title did not state clearly of T1 or T2.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  12. skph

    skph Type 2 · Active Member

    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I will only share my experience as a T2 sufferer.
     
  13. LooperCat

    LooperCat Type 1 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,219
    Likes Received:
    7,628
    Trophy Points:
    198
    No worries, it wasn’t terribly clear. It was obvious to me as a T1 that it was a T1 issue, many of us have to deal with this sort of thing all the time. Just FYI, most of our doctors expect us to self manage doses, timings etc, as it varies so much from day to day - once we are experienced enough at it to handle it confidently. Unless there is a problem or a major change needed, we don’t tend to need to contact the DN or doctors.

    @LeanneSpain - might be worth updating your profile with your type to avoid confusion like this?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. LeanneSpain.

    LeanneSpain. Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    68
    My doctor does not have to agree. Example. he doesn’t think low carb works so he doesn’t want me doing it or to carb count. I got my hba1c down with both and now hes all for it. Yes i went against my doctor but hes Happy i did now.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 2
  15. skph

    skph Type 2 · Active Member

    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Honestly, I had been told that T2 eventually will turn into T1 and that really scare the living daylights out of me. But then, after so long, I'm still T2. So who is right!?
     
  16. skph

    skph Type 2 · Active Member

    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Happy for you as long as you are fine. Stay good then. Sorry about the wrong statement. But now it's clear. Please take care.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. LeanneSpain.

    LeanneSpain. Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Just to clarify. I am not telling people to ignore their doctors.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. JoKalsbeek

    JoKalsbeek I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,635
    Likes Received:
    3,415
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Type 1 and 2 are completely different conditions. (The long & short of it: Ones don't produce insulin at all, and it often hits in childhood or early teens. Two's do make the stuff, in often rediculous, huge amounts, so we become insulin resistant as adults. Pancreas can get worn out though and reduce output.) One doesn't progress to the other. You'll be a T2 forever. Not nice either, but me... I'm glad I'm a T2. I'd mess up horribly if I had to use insulin, my maths suck. I have a hard enough time counting carbs!
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  19. skph

    skph Type 2 · Active Member

    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    28
    In all hope, I pray a cure be found for T1.

    As for T2, I'm counting on those who have breakthrough and live as normal.

    Meanwhile, I have to control by diet to stay in the right range. Hope it's not really a true disease.
     
  20. novorapidboi26

    novorapidboi26 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,831
    Likes Received:
    1,858
    Trophy Points:
    178
    a correction dose is fast acting without food......argument over.....;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook