Tannith's views on reversing T2

[Dr Snoddy]

Unfortunately children swigging fizzy drinks with their sweeties after school (and often before) is what is fueling the obesity epidemic and decreasing the age at which some of these children are diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes. These eating patterns are not normal.

 

[Oldvatr]

Thank you. At least its about OGT and not all sorts of irrelevant stuff that others (not you) have posted without reading it first to check if it's actually about OGT being dangerous, instead of just finding something that mentions OGT (or maybe is about something quite else.) It applies only to bariatric patients though.

What do you think triggered the research into ND in the first place Taylor and his team were trying to find a chemical analog to bariatric surgery that would be cheaper to apply but have the same effect as gastric bypass. They succeeded, but the calorie-reduced diet for post-surgery is very similar to the shakes used in the ND diet. So the article I posted is still relevant. The second report of that pair reinforces this aspect of the diet even with the hypos, but perhaps not as severe as in the surgical case. That one was potentially fatal if there had not been medical intervention, which is why we ask you not to do a home remedy approach without taking care for your safety, Just because it is feasible does not make it a good idea. It also will not tell you if you have recovered first stage insulin response and does not really track the stage 2 response either.

 

[lucylocket61]

. If I am mistaken perhaps people would repost them, but I suspect that no one has found anything whatsoever about it being dangerous.

1) we are not your servants to repost things you can't be bothered to find.

2) the ogt doesn't come with warnings specifically against repeated home use because that is not what they are designed for, and the manufacturer and scientists don't imagine anyone is stupid enough to use them the way you are

 

[Oldvatr]

I have read almost every one of them diligently. None I have read are about the OGT being dangerous. The majority are about completely different topics discussed much earlier in the thread. If I am mistaken perhaps people would repost them, but I suspect that no one has found anything whatsoever about it being dangerous.

If 75 g carbs were dangerous -even high GI carbs ingested at one go, the world's population would have been extinct by now. And all the kids outside the sweetshops after school, swigging their fizzy drinks would not have lived to see another day. Not that I am advocating high doses of high GI carbs on a daily basis but there is sometimes a good enough reason to check how fast your beta cells can process a standardized amount of carbs, so that the results can be compared with an internationally recognised scale. And as Oldvatr's previously linked article said, it is best not to diagnose T2 without using all 3 tests together to get a more reliable result. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/586717/ ( thanks oldvatr)

Errrm! look at the date of that article. 1977, I believe, and things have changed since then. The OGTT used to be used by doctors as part of the diagnosis where the margin of the other two tests is not severe to make a definite decision, but they are not using it now. They use the term pre-diabetes to define people who need to take care and start monitoring on an annual basis, (for which the GP gets paid by the way) and this was not in the picture when I was DX'ed. I would say by the way that tachycardia and tremors induced by the test are perhaps not dangerous, but some would consider that a potential risk especially if someone had heart problems. A doctor looking at a patient's records can make the call, a newly diagnosed Newbie reading this thread may not understand why I keep batting this hot potato back to you. Please have regard for those who will be tempted to follow you in their own quest for REMISSION. That is where the danger lurks. You are dangerous IMHO.

 

[Dr Snoddy]

Current WHO recommendations are that this should be 75 g of anhydrous glucose (not glucose monohydrate which is 10% water by weight). For three days before the test, the subject should be on an unrestricted weight-maintaining diet, with at least 150 g carbohydrate per day, and should exercise normally. The subject should fast overnight for at least 10 h, and should remain seated and not smoke during the test. Oral glucose tolerance tests are not recommended for subjects with fasting plasma glucose ≥7.1 mmol/L or hospitalized, acutely ill or immobile patients. Interpretation may be difficult in subjects taking β-blockers, diuretics, nicotinic acid or high doses of glucocorticoids.

https://www.sciencedirect.com

The validity of a OGTT relies on the above criteria being met. Tannith, am I right in thinking that you would eat 150g of carbohydrate each day for the 3 days before the rest then give yourself a huge hit of glucose? Is your blood glucose level below the stated 7.1 mmol/L? What is your most recent HbA1C?
Your approach would be dangerous for someone who is already prediabetic or diabetic.

 

[Lamont D]

I did say I wouldn't but I would be missing a chance to educate someone.

Thank you. At least its about OGT and not all sorts of irrelevant stuff that others (not you) have posted without reading it first to check if it's actually about OGT being dangerous, instead of just finding something that mentions OGT (or maybe is about something quite else.) It applies only to bariatric patients though.

It is not irrelevant or to be taken lightly. An oral glucose tolerance test is a diagnostic tool. It is always supervised. Why?
My condition uses an extended OGTT (that is the proper abbreviation) to track readings and blood samples taken and most important is if I go hypo.
Hypoglycaemia is not only in diabetes, my fasting Hba1c and my fasting finger prick readings are in normal range. But if , like in the test, I derive too much glucose, that will trigger, too much insulin as a secondary response. There are quite a few types of Hypoglycaemia. And there are many causes, such as insulinoma or pancreatitis.
If you didn't know Hypoglycaemia is dangerous and can lead to going unconscious or even worse a coma. I was very ill before diagnosis. My organs were not working properly because of the visceral fat, my BP was out of control, I was having about five to six hypoglycaemia episodes a day. And over a few years, my weight increased to nearly eighteen stone. It was the fact that carbs and sugars were killing me slowly and surely. I would not be here to try and make you see sense about how stupid doing a diagnostic test with no medical professional attendance.
When I went hypo on my first eOGTT, they had never seen someone who was supposed to be T2, taking no meds with a normal fasting reading go hypo, they assumed that I was T1, but the c-peptide test had already been done and my pancreas created too much insulin. Only my specialist endocrinologist who is a professor of endocrinologist. Was aware that this might happen.
The sister and house doctor were aware of the hypo and tried to treat it by giving me carbs via a sandwich and a fruit drink. I was not feeling well and I needed to get back up into normal range, I couldn't drink the juice or eat the sandwich, they gave me some biscuits because all they had on the ward was cereal or toast and fruit drinks.
The number of biscuits caused what is called a rebound effect that sent my blood levels high again, and then I crashed again. It was only after about ten hours they sent me home with orders to keep in touch before I went to bed with a reading and symptoms.

If you can understand what happened to me. And the hypos I was having. Having continuous hypos is not good for your health. So not having glucose when you have T2, could produce a very different outcome than what you thought.
The rarity of Hypoglycaemia is now becoming less now. And the symptoms are very similar. If only the GPs could do insulin tests along with Hba1c, you would be likely to find more Hypoglycaemic conditions, such as mine, in a lot more T2s. Because most GPs and dsns, are either not aware of Hypoglycaemia or what to look for, because they are not taught the difference between T1, T2, and hypoglycaemic conditions.
Only specialists can get the supervised tests necessary for diagnosis and the reason why you are getting the symptoms.
Do you really know, if you are not prone to Hypoglycaemia?
How will you react to something that you don't understand, if you get symptoms, that you are not aware of?
Will you be able if you are unconscious to get help?

I can see what you are trying to find, but is your diagnosis correct?
Are you certain that you are diabetic?

By my experience, your diagnosis is only because of a GPs diagnosis. And the interpretation of that test could be different depending on many things. There are many on here, who have stories of being told they are one type or another and it is completely wrong.

Only supervised tests will tell you.

Please, see your GP, get a referral to a specialist. You never know, you might not be diabetic like me!

 

[Jaylee]

Not my red Someone must have messed with it. Or my bold either. The original is: "round here often drink more than one bottle (with their sweets) on the way home from school. I wouldn't let my kids do it, but it's definitely not dangerous (unless they are T1s and haven't had their insulin)."

Hi,

Thanks for your facinating response. I bolded the red in the quote of your comment to highlight the fact.
That bolusing for Lucozade is not always needed? A certain or measured amount of the of the beverage can be used to treat a hypo caused by excess exogenous insulin in the body for T1s.

Best wishes.

 

[Tannith]

And once again, you prove that you have entirely missed the point.
But I know that if I explain the point for the 3rd? 4th? time in the last 2 pages, you will once again miss it and go off on some strange tangent to distract yourself from the unpleasant truth you so busily avoid.
So I shall spare myself the effort.

The point is that you claim people have produced links to scientific proof that OGT is dangerous and you have been asked to produce this alleged proof. But you can't. You have certainly all stated it over and over. But never proved it.
No one has linked to any scientific back up that OGT is dangerous. Because there isn't any. Because it isn't. So how could there be? You are just being evasive to avoid being expected to produce these mythical links to proof.

 

[Tannith]

I did say I wouldn't but I would be missing a chance to educate someone.


It is not irrelevant or to be taken lightly. An oral glucose tolerance test is a diagnostic tool. It is always supervised. Why?
My condition uses an extended OGTT (that is the proper abbreviation) to track readings and blood samples taken and most important is if I go hypo.
Hypoglycaemia is not only in diabetes, my fasting Hba1c and my fasting finger prick readings are in normal range. But if , like in the test, I derive too much glucose, that will trigger, too much insulin as a secondary response. There are quite a few types of Hypoglycaemia. And there are many causes, such as insulinoma or pancreatitis.
If you didn't know Hypoglycaemia is dangerous and can lead to going unconscious or even worse a coma. I was very ill before diagnosis. My organs were not working properly because of the visceral fat, my BP was out of control, I was having about five to six hypoglycaemia episodes a day. And over a few years, my weight increased to nearly eighteen stone. It was the fact that carbs and sugars were killing me slowly and surely. I would not be here to try and make you see sense about how stupid doing a diagnostic test with no medical professional attendance.
When I went hypo on my first eOGTT, they had never seen someone who was supposed to be T2, taking no meds with a normal fasting reading go hypo, they assumed that I was T1, but the c-peptide test had already been done and my pancreas created too much insulin. Only my specialist endocrinologist who is a professor of endocrinologist. Was aware that this might happen.
The sister and house doctor were aware of the hypo and tried to treat it by giving me carbs via a sandwich and a fruit drink. I was not feeling well and I needed to get back up into normal range, I couldn't drink the juice or eat the sandwich, they gave me some biscuits because all they had on the ward was cereal or toast and fruit drinks.
The number of biscuits caused what is called a rebound effect that sent my blood levels high again, and then I crashed again. It was only after about ten hours they sent me home with orders to keep in touch before I went to bed with a reading and symptoms.

If you can understand what happened to me. And the hypos I was having. Having continuous hypos is not good for your health. So not having glucose when you have T2, could produce a very different outcome than what you thought.
The rarity of Hypoglycaemia is now becoming less now. And the symptoms are very similar. If only the GPs could do insulin tests along with Hba1c, you would be likely to find more Hypoglycaemic conditions, such as mine, in a lot more T2s. Because most GPs and dsns, are either not aware of Hypoglycaemia or what to look for, because they are not taught the difference between T1, T2, and hypoglycaemic conditions.
Only specialists can get the supervised tests necessary for diagnosis and the reason why you are getting the symptoms.
Do you really know, if you are not prone to Hypoglycaemia?
How will you react to something that you don't understand, if you get symptoms, that you are not aware of?
Will you be able if you are unconscious to get help?

I can see what you are trying to find, but is your diagnosis correct?
Are you certain that you are diabetic?

By my experience, your diagnosis is only because of a GPs diagnosis. And the interpretation of that test could be different depending on many things. There are many on here, who have stories of being told they are one type or another and it is completely wrong.

Only supervised tests will tell you.

Please, see your GP, get a referral to a specialist. You never know, you might not be diabetic like me!

Thank you for this and other posts. Your condition is so very different from mine that much of your experience would not compare easily with mine.

 

[Lamont D]

Not my red Someone must have messed with it. Or my bold either. The original is: "round here often drink more than one bottle (with their sweets) on the way home from school. I wouldn't let my kids do it, but it's definitely not dangerous (unless they are T1s and haven't had their insulin)."

Obviously you're not aware of Hypoglycaemia as a condition.
Type 1s are not the only condition that people go hypo. Insulinoma, pancreatitis, pancreatic cancer, dumping syndrome, and many more including my condition.
It will produce seizures in those with epilepsy. Children can be ill because of childhood Hypoglycaemia.
So without researching the effects, you are blindly carrying on with something that can and will harm you.
Shaking my head in disbelief!

 

[zand]

Honestly guys I think Tannith is just playing games with us. She is ignoring some posts and twisting others.

To any newbies out there...please don't copy Tannith by doing home OGTTs. They are pointless as they don't prove a thing. They raise your BGs unnecessarily without provided any nutrition. Pointless.

A meter and an HbA1c test will tell you all you need to know.By all means try the Newcastle diet for a short time if you think it would suit you, but remember that you need a maintenance plan afterwards and low carb seems the sensible option, so many people decide to start with that right away.

 

[Jaylee]

Honestly guys I think Tannith is just playing games with us. She is ignoring some posts and twisting others.

To any newbies out there...please don't copy Tannith by doing home OGTTs. They are pointless as they don't prove a thing. They raise your BGs unnecessarily without provided any nutrition. Pointless.

A meter and an HbA1c test will tell you all you need to know.By all means try the Newcastle diet for a short time if you think it would suit you, but remember that you need a maintenance plan afterwards and low carb seems the sensible option, so many people decide to start with that right away.

To be fair....

Tannith would be a lifesaver for any T1 having a hypo with the Rapilose OGTT Solution..

 

[zand]

To be fair....

Tannith would be a lifesaver for any T1 having a hypo with the Rapilose OGTT Solution..

I don't suppose that many of them would be reading a T2 thread

 

[Goonergal]

All, this thread is now being locked.

The conversation has become circular and is no longer serving a useful purpose.