Technically not diagnosed yet but.. sorry long post.

[kazd63]

So I haven't actually been to the doctors yet.

I got tested a couple of years ago, my blood sugar levels were after fasting 6.8, they tested again the next day and the test was the same so they referred me for a glucose tolerance test. The wait for the test was 3 weeks so in that time I went as sugar free as I could, followed the low GI principles but still had bread (really nice rye bread from Waitrose) but this was not daily, started eating fish (eek!) but served with broccoli, creamed spinach and new potatoes with butter. Result was that when I had my fasting test prior to the glucose drink my levels had dropped to 6.3, two hours after test 5.8. Therefore diagnosed as not diabetic but high blood sugars due to being 4 to 5 stone overweight.

Roll on a couple of years and I felt that I was really out of control, not necessarily eating cakes and biscuits but I would regularly have a dessert after dinner (Magnum etc) and several times a week this would be followed by a large bag of giant buttons or the like. We also eat a lot of pasta and rice which I love (sob). During the three weeks of curbing sugar I did switch to brown rice which I actually like, I also made stews with barley (also love).

So last week I ordered a blood sugar monitor and there the fun began

Got home from work, opened it up and tested straight away (10.9) eek, tested husband to make sure it wasn't a duff monitor and he tested at 5.9.

Since then I have kept a spreadsheet and have tested several times a day, have also upped the amount of steps daily and cut out as much carb as possible. Still getting some through fruit (strawberries, raspberries, blueberries). Salad for lunch, eggs, salad, 1/2tsp balsamic, Tesco finest coleslaw, 1-2 new potatoes (I know). Dinner has been salad again and protein, also slimming world style chips (usually about 8 -10 fat chips). Dessert completely eradicated, even went on a brewery tour this week with friends, at the end we were served steak and ale pie, chips and gravy. I didn't touch any, had eggs, bacon and beans before we went.

Have upped water intake, aiming for a minimum of a litre a day (I know it should be more) but a normal day for me is cup of tea first thing, cup of coffee at work and then one or two cups of tea in the evening.

A couple of days I have come home from work and tested before dinner and the level have gone back into the green but the rest of the readings are fairly high.

Date After Sleep/Bef Brkfst Bef Lunch Bef Din Aft Din 2 Hrs Bef Bed Steps Weight
30/04/18 10.9 (18:00) 8.1 (21:00) 11,135 216.5 1 Hour walk after dinner
01/05/18 11.1 (6:43) 8.3 (18:18) 11.4 (20:45) 5,111 215.9
02/05/18 11.2(6:39) 9.6 (12:49) 7.4 (17:29) 7.6 (20:45) 7.8 (22:47) 6,295
03/05/18 9.6 (6:26) 7.1 (18:29) 10.8 (20:56) 8.4 (22:53) 7,231 215.6
04/05/18 9.8 (6:13) 8.4 (12:01) 5.8 (18:22) 13 (21:42) 8.9 (23:54) 12,282 214.6 1 hour walk at 10pm
05./05/18 10.1 (7:58) 8.5 (10:20) 6 (18:22) 9.5 (21:31) 10.2 (23:46) 11,673 213.9 1 hour walk after dinner
06/05/18 9.5 (8:07) 213.1


Tried to copy and paste my spreadsheet but it went a bit ary. Hope it makes sense (time taken in brackets). The notes on walking were to show where I had walked straight after dinner so before the 2 hour test and then one where we walked after the two hour test but before the bed time test. You can also see that my weight is starting to come down, oh and by the way I am 5'8" if that makes any difference.

I have this morning performed my own blood glucose test.

after sleep (8:07) 9.5
Pre test (8:45) 9
30 mins (9:27) 18.8
60 mins (9:57) 17.5
90 mins (10:28) 16.6

Still testing for a bit longer, but as it is going down so slowly I think this is suggesting that I have now managed to tip myself over into being diabetic.

Now a lot of people ask can this be reversed by diet but does that actually mean they are controlling it rather than it is reversed, by that I mean for those who have "reversed" it, if you had a slice of cake or similar would your body be able to produce the insulin to mop up the excess sugar or have I knackered my pancreas for good.

Final note, maybe I had better go to the doctors, I have taken all these measurements in the hope that they will just send me straight for the three month test. Your thoughts please.

 

[urbanracer]

Hi @kazd63 , don't know if you've been welcomed to the forums (so welcome!) or seen the newbies info from @daisy1 ? (You can also click on the links in the signature of any moderator.)

If you're a T2 then your condition is more about insulin resistance so your pancreas is unlikely to be knackered as such, you just cannot use the insulin that it's producing. Weight loss (as you've admitted to being overweight) usually helps to improve this situation.

If you have cut down on the carbs and you're still getting massive highs then yes, it's time to tell the quack what you're going through and get the correct diagnosis/medication.

Good luck.

 

[EllieM]

I know we're not doctors and aren't supposed to diagnose BUT, those figures look diabetic to me. (Normal readings are 4-7). I'm going to assume you're T2 diabetic here, I could be wrong, but you should definitely see your doctor asap for a diagnosis. So, assuming you're T2 (I''m not a doctor, or even a T2 diabetic, I'm a T1 who produces no insulin at all).

The problem isn't really your pancreas, it's the fact that you've become insulin resistant, so you're having to produce more and more insulin to metabolise the carbohydrates you're eating. So, as regards a "cure", it's likely you'll always be bad at metabolising carbs, but many T2 people here control this, and attain normal blood sugars, just by cutting down on the carbohydrate and having high fat instead. And, amazingly, this also makes them lose weight.

And no, most people stay bad at metabolising carbs, though everyone's different and some people can tolerate things that others can't. Also, it's likely that things will improve once you've lost any excess weight. Good luck.

 

[kazd63]

Thank you for your replies, will aim to visit Dr this week.

I have a question re metformin, a lady was diagnosed a year or so ago in fact two were, one particular lady wears diabetes like a badge of honour, god forbid you have a birthday and bring in cake without considering her diabetes. She is on Metformin but does not test her blood, she has reduced sugar in her diet but her desk is loaded with carb high treats. Sugar free sweets which are high in carbs, crisp and biscuits all low sugar so she considers them fine, lunch may be left over lasagne or two massive white rolls. So my question is, is she just using the metformin to keep her blood sugars low and still enable her to eat badly albeit cutting out refined sugars in the form of the sweet stuff. She is also walking daily and swimming once a week but she is still grossly over weight for her height. I have tried to point out to her that she is consuming large amounts of carbs (which essentially is sugar) but she just tells me to look at myself as I have not managed to lose weight through lack of will power (which is true).

 

[Guzzler]

Thank you for your replies, will aim to visit Dr this week.

I have a question re metformin, a lady was diagnosed a year or so ago in fact two were, one particular lady wears diabetes like a badge of honour, god forbid you have a birthday and bring in cake without considering her diabetes. She is on Metformin but does not test her blood, she has reduced sugar in her diet but her desk is loaded with carb high treats. Sugar free sweets which are high in carbs, crisp and biscuits all low sugar so she considers them fine, lunch may be left over lasagne or two massive white rolls. So my question is, is she just using the metformin to keep her blood sugars low and still enable her to eat badly albeit cutting out refined sugars in the form of the sweet stuff. She is also walking daily and swimming once a week but she is still grossly over weight for her height. I have tried to point out to her that she is consuming large amounts of carbs (which essentially is sugar) but she just tells me to look at myself as I have not managed to lose weight through lack of will power (which is true).

Metformin is not prescribed to actively lower blood glucose levels and has a minimal effect on these. It is taken and works in the background to reduce (slightly) the liver dumps that T2s see and other reasons.

 

[NicoleC1971]

Agree with the other posts. You have made some fantastic changes (cutting down on carbs, walking after dinner and becoming aware of how your body is responding) but you may need some extra pharmaceutical help to ge those bgs down especially the fasting ones.
Choices to discuss with your quack!
The process of reversal of this situation will take time and you will need to be careful with carbs for the rest of your life or you can choose the route of medication and a higher carb diet but its likely that you will need increasing amounts of the meds and also that you will get complications and find it difficult to manage your weight.
The high fat/low carb route offers you the chance to lose the fat from around your liver and pancreas that is causing you to be insulin resistant (the most likely cause) such that before you have lost all that you need to lose you will see an improvement in your blood sugars. Another route to the same goal is fasting of some type e.g. 5: 2 or a restricted eating window of some type.
I know that a mod will be supplying thenewbie info soon but just to say do check out the DietDoctor site which also contains useful information for your GP from Dr David Unwin (a successful low carb GP in the North West).
Finally your GP may not be clued up on the nutritional approach which is why I suggest visiting that site so that your are forearmed if you think the dietary aproach might be the way to go!
Good luck xx

 

[urbanracer]

Thank you for your replies, will aim to visit Dr this week.

I have a question re metformin, a lady was diagnosed a year or so ago in fact two were, one particular lady wears diabetes like a badge of honour, god forbid you have a birthday and bring in cake without considering her diabetes. She is on Metformin but does not test her blood, she has reduced sugar in her diet but her desk is loaded with carb high treats. Sugar free sweets which are high in carbs, crisp and biscuits all low sugar so she considers them fine, lunch may be left over lasagne or two massive white rolls. So my question is, is she just using the metformin to keep her blood sugars low and still enable her to eat badly albeit cutting out refined sugars in the form of the sweet stuff. She is also walking daily and swimming once a week but she is still grossly over weight for her height. I have tried to point out to her that she is consuming large amounts of carbs (which essentially is sugar) but she just tells me to look at myself as I have not managed to lose weight through lack of will power (which is true).

Unfortunately, and perhaps due to mis-information, there are a good number of T2's who treat Metformin as a wonder drug, (I know of one myself - my mate's wife) and think that they can pop a pill and carry on regardless. This is most certainly not the case and if she's not testing her glucose levels then she's likely to be doing damage to herself.

Your liver stores and then releases a steady trickle of glucose throughout the day and Metformin works to lower this, it does not cope with ingesting large amounts of carbs.

 

[KK123]

Thank you for your replies, will aim to visit Dr this week.

I have a question re metformin, a lady was diagnosed a year or so ago in fact two were, one particular lady wears diabetes like a badge of honour, god forbid you have a birthday and bring in cake without considering her diabetes. She is on Metformin but does not test her blood, she has reduced sugar in her diet but her desk is loaded with carb high treats. Sugar free sweets which are high in carbs, crisp and biscuits all low sugar so she considers them fine, lunch may be left over lasagne or two massive white rolls. So my question is, is she just using the metformin to keep her blood sugars low and still enable her to eat badly albeit cutting out refined sugars in the form of the sweet stuff. She is also walking daily and swimming once a week but she is still grossly over weight for her height. I have tried to point out to her that she is consuming large amounts of carbs (which essentially is sugar) but she just tells me to look at myself as I have not managed to lose weight through lack of will power (which is true).

Mmmm, if a non diabetic were to make comments on a diabetic's habits, waistline or intently watch what they eat, we would ALL be furious. The way I see it is that it is just as bad when one diabetic does it to another diabetic. If she chooses to eat left over lasagne or stuff herself with crisps then that is her decision. If I were you I would keep out of her business and make sure she keeps out of yours. As with any individual, no matter their health conditions, we are all different and have different approaches be they good or bad. All I know is if anyone at work told me I was eating too many carbs...well...let's just say I would be up on a misconduct charge.

 

[Rachox]

Hi Kaz
Reading your top post I do wonder if you skewed your results a couple of years ago when you went back after three weeks and got a normal result, because you’d already implemented some changes.
As the others have said we can’t diagnose but those numbers appear elevated, I agree time to see you dr.
I take Metformin, eat low carb and self test and now have non diabetic blood sugar tests and HbA1cs and have (easily) lost over 5 1/2 stone in the year since my diagnosis. I don’t believe for one minute I could go back to eating high carbs, I’m well controlled or in remission not cured. Metformin does very little to directly reduce your blood sugars, it works on your liver to help your metabolism in general. Your friend is definitely not doing the right thing snacking on carbs.
If you get diagnosed, come back here and we’ll help you show your friend how to do it!

 

[Bluetit1802]

As you have a glucose meter, why not ask your T2 work colleague if you can test her? There is no need to comment on her eating habits. Be aware she may be very shocked. As said above, Metformin is no miracle drug. I does not keep blood sugar levels down after eating. Only some of the stronger drugs do that. Someone I know was similar to her. He was on Metformin and was fairly active, but ate exactly what he liked and did not test. He thought he was doing OK until he needed an operation. At the pre-op they tested his blood sugars and refused to operate because they were too high. He is now on insulin.

In your case, you do need to see a GP and ask for the HbA1c test. I would not be surprised if your oral glucose tolerance test was inaccurate because you had been eating differently in the time leading up to the test.

 

[kazd63]

Mmmm, if a non diabetic were to make comments on a diabetic's habits, waistline or intently watch what they eat, we would ALL be furious. The way I see it is that it is just as bad when one diabetic does it to another diabetic. If she chooses to eat left over lasagne or stuff herself with crisps then that is her decision. If I were you I would keep out of her business and make sure she keeps out of yours. As with any individual, no matter their health conditions, we are all different and have different approaches be they good or bad. All I know is if anyone at work told me I was eating too many carbs...well...let's just say I would be up on a misconduct charge.

Trust me this is not a woman who would keep out of my business. However, I only made the comment when we had both bought the blood sugar diet book, I haven't ever commented since. Nor have I commented on the food she eats just observed it which is why I questioned does the metformin allow you to do this. Her partner was diagnosed 2 years prior to her and she just said that when he went on the metformin he lost two stone and she hasn't lost any. If anything she could be getting bigger, again I have not said this to her.

 

[kazd63]

I believe she has a blood test quarterly, she also has tests for eyes, tests for her feet. I know she also sees a diabetic nurse, so maybe she is on some other medication that brings her sugars down because she hasn't ever come in and said that the nurse has told her results were high.

 

[kazd63]

The thing bothering me is that I am a Northern lass who grew up on comfort food, meat and three veg, two types of potato with Sunday dinner. It is my favourite vegetable, I have made celeriac chips and sweet potato fries. I only really tolerate veg when I am eating it combined with some potato! Is there any hope, can I reduce everything else and just keep my beloved potato.

 

[Rachox]

.....can I reduce everything else and just keep my beloved potato.

Only testing will tell you. I can tolerate one small roast or hasselback potato, but I only found this by testing.

Edit for typo!

 

[Bluetit1802]

The thing bothering me is that I am a Northern lass who grew up on comfort food, meat and three veg, two types of potato with Sunday dinner. It is my favourite vegetable, I have made celeriac chips and sweet potato fries. I only really tolerate veg when I am eating it combined with some potato! Is there any hope, can I reduce everything else and just keep my beloved potato.

You have to use your meter to guide you. There are quite a few of us on the forum that can eat small portions of spuds without too much of a reaction. I'm one of them. My meter has told me I can eat 2 small new potatoes, or 2 small roast potatoes, or 6 or 7 homemade chips. It is 4 years since I last tried mash, jackets and stewed. At that time my meter said no. I haven't really missed them and have not eaten them since. You just have to be very careful with gravy - that can raise levels more than the spuds. Butter is a better choice than gravy.

 

[kazd63]

It's bit addictive constantly testing my blood. Have just tested again after getting up and showering etc. I stayed in bed relaxing whilst I was testing after the lucosade test, my test after 2 hours had only dropped to 13.9 but then as I say I got up showered etc and tested again 1.5 hours later and it was down to 6.3. In the 1.5 hours whilst showering etc I still had not drunk or eaten anything, the only thing I had was the lucosade drink at 8:45 this morning when I began the test. Am now tucking into raspberries, blueberries, muller light and creme fraiche. (Fruit needs eating), not hungry either so just making myself eat and am also drinking water.

 

[Resurgam]

Of all the fruits called berries blueberries are the highest carb by quite a way - but they are in some fairly low carb mixtures - but the ones without them are noticeably lower. I buy frozen fruits so there is no temptation to eat them up before they go off.
I am 18 months from diagnosis and I could eat more carbs - but I don't. Firstly it would mean rapid weight gain - I have had problems with my weight for decades, but for me, low carb eating changes the situation from walking a tightrope over Niagara to having a broad bridge to get across a peaceful lowland river.
I have eaten a few things which are high carb - but very few - like one biscuit - one piece of cake - rather a lot of the high protein Yorkshire puddings the first time I made them - but those amount to one incident in a month of low carbs, and they do not result in high blood glucose levels.
Diabetes made me feel old, the tablets made me feel that life was not worth living - but finding out that low carbing has got me back into the normal range, and caused me to need all new clothes and even shoes, has made me resolve to stick to the low carb foods just to show people just how lively a 67 year old can be.

 

[Bluetit1802]

It's bit addictive constantly testing my blood. Have just tested again after getting up and showering etc. I stayed in bed relaxing whilst I was testing after the lucosade test, my test after 2 hours had only dropped to 13.9 but then as I say I got up showered etc and tested again 1.5 hours later and it was down to 6.3. In the 1.5 hours whilst showering etc I still had not drunk or eaten anything, the only thing I had was the lucosade drink at 8:45 this morning when I began the test.

This is because the Lucozade gave you a huge insulin spike, which carried on working and dropped your levels, albeit slowly. When I did an OGTT last year I was back down to where I started at 2hrs 45 minutes but then carried on dropping over the next hour to the low 4s. This was due to too much circulating insulin. It may well have continued to drop but I had a cup of tea with milk as I was gasping.

Why did you do a Lucozade test, and are you sure you drank exactly 75g of pure glucose? It is very difficult to calculate that these days with Lucozade as it now has less sugar in it. Many GP surgeries use a pre-mixed drink called Rapilose. (available for the public to buy)

 

[daisy1]

@kazd63

Hello Kazd63 and welcome to the Forum Here is the Basic Information we give to new members and I hope you will find it both interesting and useful. Ask as many questions as you want and someone will be able to help.


BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEW MEMBERS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you'll find well over 235,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.

There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:

• Reduce your carbohydrate intake
• Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates

Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes.

Over 145,000 people have taken part in the Low Carb Program - a 10 week structured education course that is helping people lose weight and reduce medication dependency by explaining the science behind carbs, insulin and GI.

Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)

• Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l

However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips

The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

• structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
• self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to blood glucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic.

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.
Take part in Diabetes.co.uk digital education programs and improve your understanding. Most of these are free.

• Low Carb Program - it's made front-page news of the New Scientist and The Times. Developed with 20,000 people with type 2 diabetes; 96% of people who take part recommend it... find out why
  
  
• Hypo Program - improve your understanding of hypos. There's a version for people with diabetes, parents/guardians of children with type 1, children with type 1 diabetes, teachers and HCPs.
  

 

[kazd63]

This is because the Lucozade gave you a huge insulin spike, which carried on working and dropped your levels, albeit slowly. When I did an OGTT last year I was back down to where I started at 2hrs 45 minutes but then carried on dropping over the next hour to the low 4s. This was due to too much circulating insulin. It may well have continued to drop but I had a cup of tea with milk as I was gasping.

Why did you do a Lucozade test, and are you sure you drank exactly 75g of pure glucose? It is very difficult to calculate that these days with Lucozade as it now has less sugar in it. Many GP surgeries use a pre-mixed drink called Rapilose. (available for the public to buy)

I was tested at the doctors a couple of years ago and I did not take anything in, the nurse said that people normally took Lucosade in for testing but nobody had told me to do that. She took my fasting blood then gave me some disgusting concoction to drink and then I had to sit in the waiting room for 2 hours, she then took my bloods again. The results were fasting 6.3 after glucose and two hours 5.8. Therefore I was told I was not diabetic but needed to lose some weight.

So hence when I did my own test I bought original formula lucosade.

I have to confess I feel a little bit let down by the NHS over this one, a bit more guidance would have helped, maybe helped me see where the continued eating of rubbish was going to lead. Tbh don't eat loads of rubbish, i.e life is not one long takeaway but portion control is not the best and always followed by a dessert. Don't particularly eat between meals but if I was out and about and we stopped for a cup of tea then it would usually include a nice cake but tbh these were few and far between.