Type 2 Testing Foods Question

[Ponchu]

So...6 months in, off all meds, weight loss complete, I’m now testing food.

Question: does volume matter in testing BG?

Ex: Einkorn flour bread sent me from 80 BG to 180 and slow to return.

Would it matter if it was one slice or four slices?

Thanks.

 

[Rachox]

Absolutely it would. 4 slices of bread has 4 x the amount of carbs than one slice. So more carbs = more sugar = higher blood sugar.

 

[Deleted member 308541]

Would it matter if it was one slice or four slices?

The bread I eat is 5 grams for two slices, so that would be 10 grams for four slices roughly.

 

[Ponchu]

I mean for BG testing to see how one reacts.

If testing a low carb cookie, does the volume matter to the BG spike?

 

[Guzzler]

I mean for BG testing to see how one reacts.

If testing a low carb cookie, does the volume matter to the BG spike?

Yes.

There's going to be a big difference between having a biscuit after a low carb meal and having one on an empty stomach. And having four biscuits on an empty stomach will make make your meter have a nervous breakdown. This is why we count the carbs, the more carbs the higher the reaction.
Of course as we all differ, smaller portions of a higher carb food may make a difference.

 

[lucylocket61]

I mean for BG testing to see how one reacts.

If testing a low carb cookie, does the volume matter to the BG spike?

the spike is affected by the amount of carbs you eat at one time.

 

[Member496333]

Yes.

There's going to be a big difference between having a biscuit after a low carb meal and having one on an empty stomach. And having four biscuits on an empty stomach will make make your meter have a nervous breakdown. This is why we count the carbs, the more carbs the higher the reaction.
Of course as we all differ, smaller portions of a higher carb food may make a difference.

Or more accurately, in my case, this why I don’t count the carbs, because I don’t eat any besides overground vegetables. Personally preferring to keep carbohydrate in exile than do deals with it all day every day where I’m always the loser. That’s just my personal choice of course, and everyone is free to make theirs

 

[Member496333]

the spike is affected by the amount of carbs you eat at one time.

Also, your overall control is affected by the amount of carbs you continue to eat over time, it’s not just meal-to-meal spikes that should be a point of focus. The more glucose you put into your body over any time period, the more it gradually fills up with sugar and lessens insulin sensitivity. This is at least partially responsible for what I call the “elastic effect” that causes your blood glucose concentration to start trending upwards even if the pre or postprandial isn’t initially excessive. It’s why many people are pleasantly surprised by their reasonable reaction to a bar of chocolate, and are then left wondering what’s going wrong a week later after another three bars. This is how you became diabetic over a period of decades - it wasn’t one bowl of sugar puffs that did it.

Speaking only from my own personal experience and requisite research. Everyone is somewhere on their own sliding scale of insulin sensitivity

 

[Guzzler]

Or more accurately, in my case, this why I don’t count the carbs, because I don’t eat any besides overground vegetables. Personally preferring to keep carbohydrate in exile than do deals with it all day every day where I’m always the loser. That’s just my personal choice of course, and everyone is free to make theirs

Did you ever count them, not even at the beginning? Not even if you were to come across something you had never had before? When I was first testing I tested everything and I tested portions, too. I still keep an eye on them though I no longer weigh foods. Each to their own. Btw, I do not have a sweet tooth so I do not eat biscuits, even low carb ones. I have read about carb creep so I prefer to test.

 

[Member496333]

Did you ever count them, not even at the beginning? Not even if you were to come across something you had never had before? When I was first testing I tested everything and I tested portions, too. I still keep an eye on them though I no longer weigh foods. Each to their own. Btw, I do not have a sweet tooth so I do not eat biscuits, even low carb ones. I have read about carb creep so I prefer to test.

Oh god yes. Absolutely I used to count them! Experimented for about a year. It led me down a path of deprivation, depression and diabetes burnout. Only in exiling them completely with keto did I free myself from the shackles of weighing food and negotiating with a plate.

Additionally it’s also worth noting that in excess, for some people, protein also contributes to their overall glucose load, particularly over the course of time. It’s been said by some that a high protein diet is a high glucose diet. The body has no mechanism by which it can store unused amino acids, so excess will be converted to glucose or excreted by the kidneys. It’s not just carbohydrate that we need to watch. It was this realisation that enabled me to eliminate dawn phenomenon and finally get off my last 500mg of Metformin

 

[Guzzler]

Oh god yes. Absolutely I used to count them! Experimented for about a year. It led me down a path of deprivation, depression and diabetes burnout. Only in exiling them completely with keto did I free myself from the shackles of weighing food and negotiating with a plate.

Additionally it’s also worth noting that in excess, for some people, protein also contributes to their overall glucose load, particularly over the course of time. It’s been said by some that a high protein diet is a high glucose diet. The body has no mechanism by which it can store unused amino acids, so excess will be converted to glucose or excreted by the kidneys. It’s not just carbohydrate that we need to watch. It was this realisation that enabled me to eliminate dawn phenomenon and finally get off my last 500mg of Metformin

As is often said here 'your mileage may vary'. I became underweight and decided that I had to raise the protein level in my diet along with the fats to stall weight loss and because of a different condition to guard against sarcopaenia. I am lucky in that I seem not to be as sensitive to protein as some people unfortunately are.

Counting carbs has become second nature but that does not mean taking food off my plate, I have not suffered burn out and in no way feel that carb counting is or has left me feeling miserable.

 

[Member496333]

As is often said here 'your mileage may vary'. I became underweight and decided that I had to raise the protein level in my diet along with the fats to stall weight loss and because of a different condition to guard against sarcopaenia. I am lucky in that I seem not to be as sensitive to protein as some people unfortunately are.

Counting carbs has become second nature but that does not mean taking food off my plate, I have not suffered burn out and in no way feel that carb counting is or has left me feeling miserable.

Absolutely agree. Whatever works for the individual. Worth noting though that you can’t gain weight without insulin, which kind of indicates that the increased protein, and to a lesser extent fat, did increase your insulin secretion. Where it may seem that it has no deleterious effect for you, is likely because your level of insulin sensitivity is sufficient to cover that increase without a measurable rise in blood glucose.

Everyone is somewhere on their own sliding scales, which is why we all report different findings

 

[Ponchu]

It may sound silly, but I didn’t know.

If a cookie sends BG to 200, was it a response to the presence of sugar OR the presence of the volume of sugar?
I’m grateful for the answers here.

I don’t know if I’ll try again.

1 hour PP 180
90 min PP 160

6 hours later?

I woke up overheated (it’s not warm here) and tested

205.

Holy “@@&)

 

[KK123]

Oh god yes. Absolutely I used to count them! Experimented for about a year. It led me down a path of deprivation, depression and diabetes burnout. Only in exiling them completely with keto did I free myself from the shackles of weighing food and negotiating with a plate.

Additionally it’s also worth noting that in excess, for some people, protein also contributes to their overall glucose load, particularly over the course of time. It’s been said by some that a high protein diet is a high glucose diet. The body has no mechanism by which it can store unused amino acids, so excess will be converted to glucose or excreted by the kidneys. It’s not just carbohydrate that we need to watch. It was this realisation that enabled me to eliminate dawn phenomenon and finally get off my last 500mg of Metformin

Hi Jim, that's interesting about the protein. I follow lowish carb (60g) but do eat eggs, meat and far too many nuts (all protein). I do notice that my levels rise when I have eaten a protein only meal (not excessive amounts). The problem is, if I eat low protein and lowish carb, what's left????

 

[Member496333]

Hi Jim, that's interesting about the protein. I follow lowish carb (60g) but do eat eggs, meat and far too many nuts (all protein). I do notice that my levels rise when I have eaten a protein only meal (not excessive amounts). The problem is, if I eat low protein and lowish carb, what's left????

Fat

 

[KK123]

Fat

Yum!

 

[Member496333]

You betcha. Fat makes everything taste awesome. Pour it on!

 

[brassyblonde900]

As is often said here 'your mileage may vary'. I became underweight and decided that I had to raise the protein level in my diet along with the fats to stall weight loss and because of a different condition to guard against sarcopaenia. I am lucky in that I seem not to be as sensitive to protein as some people unfortunately are.

Counting carbs has become second nature but that does not mean taking food off my plate, I have not suffered burn out and in no way feel that carb counting is or has left me feeling miserable.

I have fallen head over heels and I'm in a torrid affair with Pork shoulder joints at the moment. (I used to shun it pre-dox because in my 'mis-educated' opinion it had an unacceptable meat to fat ratio...little did I know)
I am also finding out that, protein and I are down like four flat tyres.

It neatly ties in which what Ben Bikman had to say about Protein.
According to him, Gluconeogenesis is demand driven and not necessarily supply driven.
Being as I do hard core Keto, It appears that I 'gat natting' to fear when it comes to 'ma proteeeeiiiin'
(No its not dopamine this time - I am in a freezing cold house, with builders hammering and sawing all around me installing a new boiler and God knows what else - life is too short to be miserable)

 

[Member496333]

I have fallen head over heels and I'm in a torrid affair with Pork shoulder joints at the moment. (I used to shun it pre-dox because in my 'mis-educated' opinion it had an unacceptable meat to fat ratio...little did I know)
I am also finding out that, protein and I are down like four flat tyres.

It neatly ties in which what Ben Bikman had to say about Protein.
According to him, Gluconeogenesis is demand driven and not necessarily supply driven.
Being as I do hard core Keto, It appears that I 'gat natting' to fear when it comes to 'ma proteeeeiiiin'
(No its not dopamine this time - I am in a freezing cold house, with builders hammering and sawing all around me installing a new boiler and God knows what else - life is too short to be miserable)

GNG may well be demand driven. In fact I’m sure it is, but that doesn’t change the fact that excess amino acids are either going to get turned into glucose or excreted in the urine. There is no mechanism with which they can be stored in the body without first converting to glucose so that de novo lipogenesis can convert the glucose to fat. The likes of Jason Fung and Tim Noakes hold this view so it’s definitely not a fairy tale. Perhaps it’s this “demand” for GNG that determines whether the protein is either turned into glucose, or excreted? Interesting. In the case of the former occurring, the measurable effect would be greatly determined by your current level of insulin sensitivity. In the case of the latter, some say that it’s damaging to the kidneys, although I have no opinion on that.

I’m not arguing of course. It’s cool if you can consume as much protein as you like. I just find the science of it fascinating

 

[brassyblonde900]

GNG may well be demand driven. In fact I’m sure it is, but that doesn’t change the fact that excess amino acids are either going to get turned into glucose or excreted in the urine. There is no mechanism with which they can be stored in the body without first converting to glucose so that de novo lipogenesis can convert the glucose to fat. The likes of Jason Fung and Tim Noakes hold this view so it’s definitely not a fairy tale. Perhaps it’s this “demand” for GNG that determines whether the protein is either turned into glucose, or excreted? Interesting. In the case of the former occurring, the measurable effect would be greatly determined by your current level of insulin sensitivity. In the case of the latter, some say that it’s damaging to the kidneys, although I have no opinion on that.

I’m not arguing of course. It’s cool if you can consume as much protein as you like. I just find the science of it fascinating

Ben Bikman's theory is the only explanation I have, for having, My fasting reading of this morning, PP reading of last night in the middle and the ketone readings. As you can see from these images.
Edited to add that I am ashamed to state that I went for 2nd and 3rd helpings, and they were quite generous helpings. Having gotten away with previous misdemeanours of eating senseless amounts of Protein, and coupled with the relief of realising I could eat something truly decadent without fearing a BG spike for once, I seemed to have loosened the reigns a bit when it comes to protein intake these past few weeks
My only reason for caution right now, is to make sure I don't put on weight....I would hate to eat my way back to obesity.