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The Cure for Type 2 Diabetes

Discussion in 'Diabetes Soapbox - Have Your Say' started by carefix, Jan 2, 2008.

  1. xyzzy

    xyzzy Other · Well-Known Member

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    Oh how I love this thread it's really bitchy :lol:

    and to make things better I now learn that as well as the "H" word we now have the "F" word as well.

    Let's stir it up some more :twisted:

    Sometimes I do wish my GP a couple of years ago at my annual check up had said "Well Mr xyzzy my diagnosis is that you are turning into a weight challenged b****d (note the avoidance of the "F" word) and I do suggest you do something about it given your family history of diabetes." He was quick enough to encourage me along with the rest of the NHS to give up smoking (which I did) so what is the difference?

    Of course if you have or had any kind of medical condition (physical or psychological) as to why you are "ahem" :oops: overweight that's an entirely different matter and I have the utmost sympathy for you otherwise the answer seems to be pretty obvious, eat less and if you're overweight and diabetic eat less and make sure what you are eating isn't killing you.

    Let's add some more banned words how about the "E" word. I hate E. When I realised I had to make a permanent life change choice and weighed up eat less as opposed to eat slightly less but do loads of E, eat less won hands down. I do some E as I walk my dogs for around an hour a day and some mornings if I wake up with high BG's I'll do a 10 minute fast walk around the block that includes a reasonable hill climb just to kick my metabolism into action. Apart from that I am pretty much and happily sedentary. The trouble with E as far as I'm concerned is that its a law of diminishing returns imo, you have to do more and more to get the same effect and I know in my case it is not a sustainable life change long term. If you enjoy loads of E then good luck to you!

    Another banned letter. How about the "C" word. There seems to be two kinds of "C" each having a fanatical and in some an almost religious following on these forums. We have the Low C's and the High C's Surely what's important is what suits the individual? To keep my BG's in a safe range at the moment I can only eat around 50-60g of C a day max which puts me in the Low C category (although some of the real Low C fanatics would dispute this). However I do look enviously at the likes of Grazer who has a less than 6 HbA1c yet manages around 180g / day and think one day perhaps... ... but not yet.
     
  2. Grazer

    Grazer · Well-Known Member

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    AAh, but us sheep have a different metabolic rate! So we can eat more C without getting so F and don't need so much E and thus don't get H!
     
  3. borofergie

    borofergie Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Check out his photo on the other thread xyzzy, I'm starting to suspect that he isn't really a diabetic at all. If he keeps this up then he'll give us "weight challenged" T2s a bad name!
     
  4. daisy1

    daisy1 Type 2 · Legend

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    These recent posts have nothing whatsoever to do with the title of this thread "The Cure for Type 2 Diabetes". Please get back on topic or I shall lock this thread.

    daisy1
    Forum Moderator
     
  5. Anonymous

    Anonymous · Guest

    Dear carefix,
    I was most interested to read your 'cure diabetes' post and the effects of Transfats. Like you, I believe that Type 2 Diabetes is a man made disease caused by Hydrogenated and partially Hydrogenated Vegetable Oils. After a little reasearch on the internet I found a very interesting article on www.cancertutor.org entitled 'the cure for Type 2 Diabetes' the cure concerns the Budwig protocol developed by Dr. Joanna Budwig, the core treatment of which consists of Flaxseed Oil and Cottage Cheese mixed thoroughly to a ratio of 2 parts Cottage Cheese to 1 part Flaxseed Oil with added ground Flaxseed, the mixture results in a water soluable Omega 3 which, when taken over time, can soften and make 'elastic' the cell walls damaged and made rigid by Trans Fats. [the website goes into further detail and explains the science behind the theory]
    I have incorporated this into my current diet which consists of no Trans Fats, sugars, Salt, Red Meat or Carbohydrates. I eat organic Chicken and Fish, I filter my Tap water and try to eat as much raw 'Live' vegetables as possible. I was diagnosed Type 2 on the 6th of January 2012 and since then I have implemented and maintained my diet and have seen my Blood Sugar levels come down quite a lot since the alarmingly high levels pre diagnosis.
    I take 1 x 500mg of Metformin daily however, my GP advised a high Carb/lo Fat diet [which increased my Blood Sugar levels] and perscribed 1500mg of Metformin which I was not entirely happy with, I wanted to avoid taking Medication if possible and try to control my condition with diet and exercise, I hope to stop taking Metformin completely as my Blood Sugar levels come down.
    Before I was diagnosed my diet was full of convenience food, refined sugar, pastry, biscuits [a lot!] etc with virtually no vegetables or fruit and although I was not obese I was just over a stone heavier than my ideal weight of 12 st for my height [6.0] with pronounced girth around my waist and upper Abdomen.
    I find it interesting to note the advice given on www.cancertutor.org states
    that considerably more Omega 3 must be taken than Omega 6 and must be taken in high doses which is consistent with the information you have provided. After my diagnosis I purchased a copy of Dr. Neal Barnard's book 'Reverse Diabetes Plan' which advocates no oils of any description and is totally vegan although I found this too difficult to implement with any success. Dr. Barnard's teachings seems to centre around the theory of 'starving' the body of any oils to reverse Diabetes and seems similar to the research carried out by Prof. Roy Taylor of Newcastle University whereby test subjects were restricted to 600 calories a day for 8 weeks with positive results.
    I am a little confused as to which method of treatment is the most effective, the starvation method or the increased Omega 3 method? Your comments regarding this would be much appreciated, in the meantime I am continuing with my current diet but I have also added Hemp Oil as per your recommendations.
    Many thanks for your post which has given hope to me and no doubt many others.
     
  6. phoenix

    phoenix Type 1 · Expert

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  7. noblehead

    noblehead Type 1 · Guru
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    Well if someone is getting frustrated then it's better to walk away then resort to personal insults, as I said earlier we have members old and new struggling with their weight and to read such posts could cause offence.
     
  8. xyzzy

    xyzzy Other · Well-Known Member

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    dodd4721

    Are you sure you're method of curing yourself is sustainable long term as I believe it needs to be. I was diagnosed a month before you and can say that simply reducing carb intake down to around 50g / day plus taking Metformin has "detoxed" my system from initial BG readings in the 20's to a now under control range of 5 to 6.5 range at all times of the day. I am aiming for 4 to 6.5 at all times i.e. the range an average non diabetic would show. If I do this I will be in CONTROL not CURED.

    Are you claiming this diet will lead to a permanent CURE of your Type 2 or simply CONTROL it? If its a cure then after its success (how long does the treatment last?) you will be able to eat a non diabetics average daily carbohydrate intake and have the blood sugar responses where 19 out of 20 non diabetics will return a BG reading of 6.5 or less within two hours and sit at fasting levels in the 4's (someone correct me if that's rubbish and I will retract).

    Will you ever risk eating a "normal" amount of carbs to see if has worked I wonder? How will you feel if you do and find out it was all a con.

    Although like me you seem to be researching your new condition I would honestly look at the easier ways of controlling your Type 2 that are sustainable and would be very suspicious of any magic bullet claims. Like me you have probably found the NHS recommendations out-dated and idiotic but that doesn't mean the zero carb fanatics are right either. As I said in my earlier post beware the fanatics on both sides and by all means look at real validated scientific research as indications of how to take charge of your condition yourself.
     
  9. Anonymous

    Anonymous · Guest

    From everything I have read I can only 'control' my condition through lo carb intake, diet and exercise, however, the Budwig method of Cottage Cheese and Flaxoil seems to make sense when you read the theory behind it, www.cancertutor.org explains how it works with science not hokum, many people have rubbished it's claims but many people have testified as to how effective it is [breastcancer.org and the Yahoo 'Cottage Cheese/Flaxoil' Group has some testimonies from sufferers that have tried the protocol with sucess]
    You must thoroughly research the Budwig method and decide for yourself as I did. I have only used part of the protocol in that I use the Cottage Cheeseand Flaxoil in addition to eating as much raw food as I can with a little cooked food, I eat protein in the form of Organic Chicken and Fish.
    Maybe it's not a magic bullet only time will tell but it makes a very pleasant breakfast when fruit is added to it [strawberrys or blueberrys] and is completely natural, when faced with this condition anything is worth a try so long as it's safe.
    My current diet is easy to maintain and seems to be effective as the numbers are coming down [fasting around 5, 2 hours after meals around 6] after only 4 weeks. As far as eating a 'normal' amount of carbs I can only say I don't miss Bread, Pastry, Biscuits, etc anyway and I enjoy my new diet a lot, ironically I feel a lot better for it, I have more energy than I've known in years, my vision is a lot better, my skin looks great and I've got rid of the tyre around my waist that I've had for the last 10 years!
    I have considered the 'Newcastle' diet to eliminate Diabetes but I have decided to wait for more testimonies from people that have tried it to see if they were sucessfull in 'curing' Diabetes completely.
     
  10. Grazer

    Grazer · Well-Known Member

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    I wish everyone trying to "cure" their diabetes the sincerest best of luck, be it this Budwig method or the Newcastle experiment, or other ultra-cures. I can't help having my doubts though.
    I think things get confused when people talk about succesful weight loss, and maintaining normal blood sugars with a "near normal" diet, or "reversing" diabetes by having normal BGs when on reduced carbs and so on.
    Good though all these things are, to me, the only way which would enable a person to say "I'm cured" is to pass a couple of glucose tolerance tests at a proper clinic or hospital.
    That's not to say people don't get great benefits from these programs, and if that's the aim (eg weight loss) then that's fine. It's the "cure" part and how you define it that concerns me.
    Personally, I think it perhaps IS possible for a person who is diabetic as a result of insulin resistance through obesity, AND is diagnosed early on, to "cure" their diabetes through rapid weight loss if they can achieve it before their Beta cells are damaged. Also personally, I don't think you CAN cure it once the diabetes is established and Pancreatic damage has set in. Bit like the difference between pre-diabetes and full diabetes; I suppose I'm suggesting that it's in the realms of possibility that someone who has just crossed from pre to full could still affect a cure. But I don't know. I just believe that we need PROPER testing before cures are claimed
     
  11. lucyoo11

    lucyoo11 · Newbie

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    dear carefix, like what you wrote, a lot makes sense to me as i have felt i am being hoodwinked although dieting excersing and taking gliclyzide my blood sugars are all over the place. No two people i have dealings with over my diabetes give me the same story also conflicting advice.
    You have not been on the site for some time hope you are still around
    Lucy
     
  12. xyzzy

    xyzzy Other · Well-Known Member

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    dodd4721 I wish you all the best but like Grazer I won't believe you are cured until you can pass a GTT test after eating a non diabetics average carb intake for a while. I have found no evidence that a study showing such a result has ever been done. If you can show me the evidence I will be very interested. I can certainly see that by eating zero carbs / day you will undoubtedly get control over your BG levels and drive them back into a non diabetic range however the key word is control not cure and its cure which is the keyword in this threads title. From what I've read then many people state if you stop the Budwig method then pretty soon your BG's begin to rise i.e. the cure is purely illusionary because you are on an ultra low carb diet. By stopping Budwig you are then simply losing the control you had.

    I also to got to your BG's (5 to 6) within 4 weeks just by eating no more that 50g of varied carbohydrate each day. Mine are now beginning to run from 4.5 to 6 in the last few days. I started from BG readings in the low 20's and because of a failure at my GP practice to actually tell me I had diabetes I was running at those high levels for many months before my official diagnosis in early December.

    You say you were only marginally overweight. I am "somewhat" overweight having a BMI of 28 at present (6ft 2" currently 15st 8lbs). At 50g / carbs per day and not initially particularly worrying about where those carbs came from I have lost around 22lbs and about 4" off my waist in 6 weeks and am now back in 36/34 jeans for the first time in over 10 years .

    What drives my carb intake are my personal BG level targets not that I must eat zero or I must eat high number of carbs as that seems back to front to me. In Budwig as with other supposed miracle diets and cures the method you choose controls you rather than allowing you to gain the control and expertise you need in the years ahead imo. At my current average of 60g / day I can also vary my diet considerably and try out different foods to gauge their effect. I'm already finding what foods I can eat and not eat despite apparently equal carbohydrate content are you? For example I went to my granddaughter birthday party yesterday and based on the knowledge I now have managed to eat many nice things and kept my 1, 2 and 4 hours reading under 7.

    As I said in my previous post then to me the key is to eat a sustainable healthy diet in the coming years that keeps BG's in a non diabetic range of 4 to 6.5 (here I entirely agree with you). If you think you can potentially do Budwig for the rest of your life then good luck to you but I'll continue eating my wide, interesting, healthy but low carb diet thanks.
     
  13. Ardbeg

    Ardbeg Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I have to agree with your logic on this one.

    I'm two weeks into the Newcastle diet now and already my BG has dropped from over 7 when I was taking Metformin, to 5.2 without any meds. HOWEVER - I am under no illusions that I can return to my old unhealthy eating habits and hope to keep my BG below 7.

    The best I can hope for is to learn from my past mistakes, adjust my diet accordingly going forward and keep diabetes at bay for as long as possible.
     
  14. Anonymous

    Anonymous · Guest

    I'm not saying the Budwig diet is a 'miracle' cure, as I have already mentioned I am only using the part of it that involves Flax Oil and Cottage Cheese combined to produce a water soluble Omega 3 Oil in addition to Fish/Hemp Oils and a lo carb healthy diet with exercise however, I find it very interesting to note that the information given by www.cancertutor.com regarding Type 2 Diabetes has much in common with the information given by the originator of this thread.
    I include the following taken from www.cancertutor.com;

    What Causes Type II Diabetes

    Type 2 diabetes can be cured!! But before understanding any cure for type 2 diabetes, it is first necessary to understand the cause of type 2 diabetes.

    First of all, being overweight does NOT cause type 2 diabetes!!! Scientists generate a lot of data, but frequently have no clue how to interpret the data.

    The reason there is a high statistical correlation between being overweight and having type 2 diabetes is that the same thing that causes type 2 diabetes also causes some people to be overweight. For example, bad fats (such as in margarine) are what cause type 2 diabetes, and bad fats can also cause a person to be overweight.

    Thus the statistical correlation is not a "causal" relationship, but rater a "common cause" relationship. It is extremely rare when a scientist discusses "common cause" statistical correlations because they get paid to sell drugs. Let me repeat: being overweight does NOT cause type 2 diabetes.

    Here is more information about what really causes type 2 diabetes:


    •"Another lipid in a cell wall is cholesterol. And you thought it was a terrible thing. The cholesterol in each one of your cells forms a "hydrophobic" bond within the cell wall. Hydrophobic means "fear of water." It’s a cute way to describe this function of our cells, but in our lives it simply describes the reason we don’t melt in a rainstorm or fall apart when we take a shower or bath. Our cells resist water. Without this resistance, we would be water-soluble and we'd all dissolve in a rainstorm.
    Our diets in this country (and in Budwig’s country at the time) lack these highly unsaturated fatty acids and contain an excess of man-made oils known as trans fats (or partially hydrogenated oils). These oils are very much like cholesterol and our bodies cannot tell the difference. These oils get into our cell walls and destroy the electrical charge. Without the charge, our cells start to suffocate. Without the oxygen, the only way the cell can replicate is anaerobically. (They also are very tough oils and have a 20-year shelf life. They impede the process of cellular exchange, or letting nutrition in and letting wastes out. Trans fats are also responsible for Type II diabetes, since insulin is a very large molecule it has a difficult time passing through a cell wall created with man-made fats and not cholesterol.)"


    http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/cancer1/budwig.htm


    In other words, trans-fatty acids attach themselves to the cell walls, and because they are a different type and shape of molecule, make the cell walls "rigid," and the large glucose molecules cannot penetrate the cell walls and get into the cells.

    Here is a more detailed way to explain it (taken from an email from a medical doctor):


    •"Insulin binds with a cell wall receptor that causes a transport molecule to come to the wall and escort the glucose/ascorbate to where it is needed. The trouble is that it can't easily come through a port made of the wrong fatty acids. The cell may still have some good ports so increasing insulin will still help. Over time as the body continues to store excess glucose as triglyceride in fat cells and doesn't burn fat the person becomes obese--just look around you, it's everywhere.
    Most diets are low-fat and the fats they do contain are bad fats and the problem just gets worse."



    Type II or Type 2 diabetes is one of the rare diseases that is not caused by a microbe or impurities in vaccinations. It is caused by our diet of "bad fats" and the lack of "good fats" in our diet.

    These same bad fats cause heart disease and many cases of people being overweight.

    In other words, the same bad fats cause three major health problems:
    1) Type 2 diabetes,
    2) heart disease,
    3) many cases of being overweight.

    There are many other things these molecules cause as well.

    The medical community, having no interest in what causes disease, claims that type 2 diabetes causes heart disease. This is partly true, but most of their statistical correlation is caused by the fact that both of them are caused by the same thing - the ratio of bad fats to good fats.

    If a person were to simply avoid the trans-fatty acids and many other bad fats, eventually their type 2 diabetes would go away because as the bad cells (i.e. the ones with rigid fats on them) died, they would be replaced by new cells made of good fats (assuming there were good fats in your diet). However, this process would take several years since many cells live for multiple years.

    However, there is a way to speed up the process. By avoiding the bad fats, and flooding your body with the right type of good fats, especially water-soluable omega 3, type 2 diabetes is very easy to cure. It generally takes 7-12 months (much less time if it is newly diagnosed).

    It is absolutely critical to avoid ALL trans-fatty acids, ALL hydrogenated oils, ALL CANOLA OIL, ALL margarine and ALL other "bad fats" like the plague, because they ARE A PLAUGUE on humanity!!!

    www.cancertutor.com goes on to include methods of using good fats and water soluble Omega 3 to treat Diabetes, the above is just part of the advice given but as already mentioned I am not claiming it be a 'miracle' cure. I have only been diagnosed 4 weeks ago but decided to try it as it seems to make good sense and thought other Type 2 sufferers may be interested, as far as the treatment is concerned only time will tell...
     
  15. ladybird64

    ladybird64 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I have just had a look around the cancertutor website. Each to their own but some of the stuff I have read has made my hair stand on end.

    Breast cancer is caused by mouth infection..wow.

    Anyway, I did read what you have reproduced up above but also noticed this:

    On Mike's website is a free 9 minute discussion about the audio files, but remember the CDs include all the information necessary to cure type 2 diabetes (i.e. get off of insulin)

    and also this:

    "I know you have the theory on this from some of the e-mails I sent you, but I finally got around to sending the cure to [a PhD who works at a medical clinic] who runs the lab at [medical clinic], and heads the dept. at [a university]. He confirmed it is true and had been around for some time now. The natural therapy will take several months to kick in after which you can flush the medications a person takes down the toilet and pronounce them cured so long as they continue eating right.

    These talk about a cure, yet in the first they equate "getting off of insulin".
    The second saying they will be pronounced cured "as long as they continue eating right".

    I wish you the very best dodd but I am wary of anything that bandies around the word "cure" especially when it claims to cure cancer. This has been touted by R.Webster Kehr as the cure for type 2 when it is obviously anything but, it is simple to see by the above that the best one can hope for is control of the diabetes. Maybe Mr Kehr should explain his definition of cure.
     
  16. Sid Bonkers

    Sid Bonkers Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    There have always been a lot of quacks out there Ladybird who claim that they alone know the cause for this that and the other and that they also know the secret cure for all ills, the truth with diabetes as I see it is that many find that they can control their diabetes in many different ways but as of right now there is NO CURE for diabetes.

    And I wish you all happy lives/diets whichever path you choose to follow, but please be aware that whatever diet you choose you will have to eat it for the rest of your lives to keep your diabetes at bay, unless your Halle Berry of course :lol:
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. Ardbeg

    Ardbeg Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Is that Acai Berry's little sister? :wink:
     
  18. xyzzy

    xyzzy Other · Well-Known Member

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    What REALLY REALLY makes me angry about things like this is it does so much damage to science and scientists of which I count myself as one being a technologist for 30+ years.

    For nigh on a 1000 years science (starting with a chap called Ibn al-Haytham) has relied on something called the scientific method to prove or disprove claims and theories. The modern theory of scientific method can be traced back to Galileo in the late 1500's.

    One of the basics of scientific method is independent peer review, publication for scrutiny in scientific journals and duplication of results by other scientists. Without this verification process any scientific claim regardless of how many correct scientific words, however logical and correct it seems, however many correct mathematical formulae there are, etc. etc. IS JUST COMPLETE B*****KS. . No exceptions ever, ever ever!

    Non scientists may not "get" why scientific method is so critical but without it our society would still be driven by superstition and we would just about be able to rub two sticks together. Scientific method is how science works and is why we nowadays know how to make iPads, have TV's, go to the moon and treat diabetes.

    Maybe another more non science way of looking at these claims is to give good believable answers to the following questions.

    1) Why isn't the method patented. If it's so successful then without a patent anyone can steal the idea and its creators can't make money out of it.

    2) Why hasn't a major drug company seen this as an enormous money spinner, bought the rights (oh yes I forgot they don't need to) and marketed the hell out of it?

    There is evidence that a low carb diet can be an effective treatment for Type 2 diabetes. There are Swedish studies that anyone can read to show this but that's it. The rest of it as super cool Prof Brian Cox would say is just wo wo.
     
  19. Grazer

    Grazer · Well-Known Member

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    Not that you feel strongly about it! :lol: Just joking, I do agree. Now have a nice cup of tea and listen to "Dark side of the moon", or go back even further and go for "several species of small furry animals gathered together in a cave and grooving it with a pict" - best song title ever surely?!
     
  20. xyzzy

    xyzzy Other · Well-Known Member

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    Now that really brings back memories of a severely misspent youth and the track before it on the album "Grantchester Meadows".

    Being a child of the mid to late 70's I was more a "Wish you were here" man, a statement I've always thought would be neat to have on your gravestone and playing at your funeral. :twisted:

    I did punk too, especially the Sex Pistols and the Police! :thumbup:
     
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