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The Guardian

[...] what evidence there is demonstrates that high fat / low fibre diets increase the chances of cardiovascular disease

What about high fat, low fibre, high sugar? Or medium fat, low sugar, high protein? etc. etc. etc. These studies don’t care because their MO is to discourage low carbohydrate eating at any cost.

And again, none of this has to have anything to do with low carbohydrate eating, as it is entirely possible (in fact likely) for low carb eaters to consume vast quantities of fibrous vegetables. In fact I would imagine that there are more low carbers eating vegetables than there are carb-grazers. Certainly I would think the majority are clean eaters of real food, which is more than can be said for the general public at large.

Fibre only has to be linked to low carbohydrate if that is your mission objective.
 
I think the fact that we don't need carbohydrates refers to its use as a source of glucose as we can synthesize glucose. Dietary fibre may well have different benefits so the logic that we don't need carbohydrates so we don't need fibre doesn't stand up.

Not having some essential nutrient does not necessarily result in instant death but may cause a long term problem, like rickets, iron deficient anemia or goitre. If you are still a carnivore and healthy in 20 years time that will be more of an argument.
 
The Guardian has written that low carb and low fibre leads to early deaths,

Since removing bread, pasta, rice and potato from my diet and increasing my vegetable intake plus nuts, tomatoes, mushrooms the one thing I have noticed is the lack of need for anything to make me go, quite the opposite. If I was to consume only a portion of their suggested way of consuming 25 - 30 gms of fiber I would be in great need of medication to cope with the carbs. My weight problem would be even worse, even before taking the required medication. Anything making my pancreas produce more insulin than it is now would just make that weight problem worse still. So no matter what the scientists say, more fiber would shorten my life.
 
At last someone who understands the difference between relative risk and abolute risk . It also remains to be seen if they are using RR or HR to express risk. I remember a similar study on a certain statin med that ended up showing a very significant drop in risk (RR) for a CVE event. When this was turned into an absolute risk value by a researcher, it showed that the statin required to be max dose for 3 years to possibly increase life expectancy by 1 day.
 
One flaw, not of the study itself, but of the connection to the LC diets is:-
The metastudy looks at many reports from the past, which given that many will be long term studies on large populations, will be that the evidence theyare looking at was collected many years ago. Now Bantings diet has certainly been around for a hundred years at least, but its modern derivatives (Paleo and LCHF) and even Atkins are newcomers in the last few years, so are much less likely to be forming part of the database being used,

So the media is wrong to draw this conclusion since it has no basis at all either in the report or its substudies. It used to be Atkins bashing, now it is anything LC.
 
Of course carbs/fibre are not essential. You can live without them.
However, there is a mountain of evidence suggesting that you will not live as long as if you do eat them.

>>>>>......<<<<<<<<
Is this really true. and how does it fit in with your previous postings? carbs kill???? Not what you were saying earlier......
 
Is this really true. and how does it fit in with your previous postings? carbs kill???? Not what you were saying earlier......
To quote myself " You will not live as long as if you do eat them".
i.e. you will live longer eating carbs/fibre than if you don't (unless you have no other way of controlling BG)/
 
To quote myself " You will not live as long as if you do eat them".
i.e. you will live longer eating carbs/fibre than if you don't (unless you have no other way of controlling BG)/

One of the most oft reasons given to disuade people from a diet lower in carbs is that there are 'no long term studies'. There were no long term studies that proved the SAD was good for human health but it swept the west anyway. Now that groups such as Virta Health are recording clinical data in an effort to provide evidence it is only a matter of time. My point is that you can't have it both ways and selecting data that shows association rather than trials which prove causation is weak, very weak.
To close, I have yet to see/hear of real evidence that there is definitive causation of negative effects.
 

So you are OK telling people they shouldn’t criticise a report they haven’t read in depth (you say this in several posts on this thread).

But then you happily criticise a book you haven’t read at all? Actually, your post comes across as mocking said book.

Can’t have it both ways, or you look hypocritical.

Incidentally, I have not read the report OR the book, since I know EXACTLY how much fibre my body tolerates (very little), and I will take my own unfortunate Disaster Pants experiences over any historically questionable* study any day.

*. By historically questionable, I mean that Low Carbing as an identifiable ‘thing’ is new. So asking people decades ago how they ate, and then assuming that a contemporary low carb way of eating is comparable is just a nonsense. Smacks of grandstanding to increase pay per view.
 
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"
What are the symptoms of too much fiber?

The recommended daily intake of fiber is 25 grams per day for women and 38 grams per day for men. However, some experts estimate as much as 95 percent of the population don’t ingest this much fiber.
While it appears most people fall short of their recommended fiber intake, it’s actually possible to have too much fiber, especially if you increase your fiber intake very quickly. Too much fiber can cause:
bloating
abdominal pain
flatulence
loose stools or diarrhea
constipation
temporary weight gain
intestinal blockage in people with Crohn’s disease
reduced blood sugar levels, which is important to know if you have diabetes
Call your doctor right away if you’re experiencing nausea, vomiting, a high fever, or a complete inability to pass gas or stool."

So it would seem you can after all have too much of a good thing.

https://www.healthline.com/health/food-nutrition/too-much-fiber
 
How many people eat whole grain breads and whole grain breakfast cereal?
They generally eat refined foods loaded with sugar and salt and bigfood rub their hands together in delight.
If it helps diabetics I reckon it's complete mature male bovine excrement.

They just have to get a cheap blood glucose meter to actually know what happens.
D.
 

Yes, and I get those symptoms with less than 10g of fibre a day.

Thank you for this @JohnEGreen

It is another great example of why one portion of fibre really doesn’t fit all.

Mind you, I am perfectly happy for all those who need/flourish on 30+g of fibre to carry on doing so.
In fact, they can have mine!
 
actually Prof J Cummings MD who is a co author of the report in the OP does seem to know his onions, He has co written several WHO studies and reports and sits on several of their comittees.

https://www.dundee.ac.uk/medicine/staff/profile/john-cummings.php#tab-Publications

He seems to enjoy gut fermentation and the outcomes of it, so could be said to know his s**t better than I do. His treatise on carbohydrate classification is an interesting read - not all carbs are equal. But it is published in Nature.......erm

https://www.nature.com/articles/1602936
 
I know I do not eat anywhere near the amount of this latest recommended amount of fibre.
Out of interest I have been googling for symptoms of insufficient fibre.

This seems to be:
constipation (less than 3 bowel movements a week and/or hard stools)
weight gain
always hungry
high cholesterol
constantly nauseous
high blood sugar
tummy ache during digestion (diverticulitis)

I will continue as I am with my low carb eating plan. I have none of those symptoms
 

Back in the day Nature was one of the Tops, been sometime since I have closely followed the ranking of SciJournals.
 

I am probably lowish fibre and have two listed.
bricks
high cholesterol.... but we all know about that one...

Need to work on No1

Hj
 
Back in the day Nature was one of the Tops, been sometime since I have closely followed the ranking of SciJournals.
My Goto was Omni - all sorts of weird and wonderful stuff there. The Lancet is a good source now since they review before publication, but only in the proper medical journal, Same cannot be said for their online magazine of the same name that is a pure commercial venture. Both are owned by Elsevier.

New Scientist can be entertaining, but again I think its halo has slipped a bit too.
 
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