The Hidden Killer. Type 2 Diabetes.

Shar67 said:

Does type 2 make you fat, or being fat gives you type 2.

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That's a good question, I was prescribed Rosiglitazone and gained 8 stone without changing my diet and despite many whinges to my (then) GP who considered it a side effect worth tolerating. I also gained when I started taking Gliclazide without changing my diet.

Also, if you are insulin resistant and your pancreas produces more insulin to make up for it, guess what insulin does? Insulin is a fat-storing hormone, the more of it that circulates in the body, the harder it becomes to burn body fat.

Shar67 said:

Does type 2 make you fat, or being fat gives you type 2. Bearing in mind not all fat people are diabetic and not all type 2s are fat

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I think there is a case for the former

Jo123 said:

But most people are fat!

So is the increase in diabetes just coincidental to the increased bmi of the population?
I don't know but it would be interesting to look at the figures.

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Most T2s get insulin resistance years, if not decades before they gain weight and develop T2.
Once the weight gain starts, the insulin resistance increases even more, and a fatty liver often develops.

The common feature for T2s is NOT being overweight and having a fatty liver. It is the insulin resistance which then causes the weight gain and fatty liver - which then becomes a vicious cycle of increasing fat, increasing insulin resistance and increasing T2.

Slim T2s may not be fat, but they DO have insulin resistance, and MAY have fatty livers. They may also have damaged beta cells which reduces their capacity to produce their own insulin.

Plus, of course, that not all T2 insulin resistance is caused by eating carbs. It can be genetic, environmental, caused by drug treatments... there are many other causes.

Personally, my insulin resistance comes from
- genetics
- a drug I take for another medical condition
- that medical condition itself
- AND being overweight.

The first 3 reasons pre-date my being fat by about 15 years.

As a result of these, my carb tolerance (before my blood glucose rises) is well below that of the carb intake recommended by the NHS. If I followed their diet, I would feel dreadful, have uncontrolled blood glucose and/or be on several medications. I would also be fatter.

I prefer low carbing.

Thank you to all posters on the thread. It really does make an interesting read with some excellent, valid points.
I watched the programme after lapsing from my low carb diet for about 5 months. I am type 2 and my head was definetly buried in the sand. I had already decided that my diet, weight gain was unacceptable and I needed to get back on track. The timing of this programme was excellent as it really scared me seeing the possible results of uncontrolled bs levels. It is a great pity that they are not screening a part 2 where they examine strategies for dealing with type 2 , like the low carb diet. This is certainly an opportunity missed. Surgery is the only option they showed .

Not been on here for ages but for any new T2s (and any who would like a refresher) my guides are still on the forum (links in my sig below).

I think the most disturbing for me was the conversation with the 15 year old. The doctor asked him what he ate last night and just said "That's too much".

What I still don't understand, in all diabetes, is why so many healthcare professionals don't link increased blood glucose levels to increased carbohydrate levels, when there is a 100% 1-to-1 mapping between the two? Surely that's where we should be starting?

It was quite scarey and definitely gave me a reminder of why keeping your BG low is a good idea!!!! I thought it disappointing that the solution to it was just surgery. After all, it doesn't mean you will eat healthily after the surgery.

I certainly empathised with the chap on the show, I rarely drink and gave up smoking (which is when I put on all the weight) but my weakness is definitely chocolate. However, he had clearly not been educated about the correct way to eat and certainly not low carb - four weetabix topped with Frosties - OMG! Not everyone, including myself, is successful on LCHF but I definitely LC and this is shown through testing. What about the 15 year old? He didn't even realise how much sugar was in his drink. Where is the education?

As others have suggested - there needs to be a follow up with some food advice.

Again, very useful to read the contributions to this thread. This programme was a tabloid-newspaper puff piece, not up to normal Panorama standards, and nowhere near as gripping as "Fixing Dad". I too was appalled by the inaccuracies sprinkled throughout and the use of misleading statistics to drive home a one-eyed viewpoint.
If anyone thinks it worthwhile they could contact Jeremy Vine's Points of View this Sunday - pov@bbc.co.uk
If enough of us ask for a balanced second programme on success v diabetes, who knows what might happen?

ally1 said:

I will be watching the programme.
I must admit that i eat porridge every morning. My levels are not too bad post reading so i will stick to it

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If you can try a teaspoon of Cinnamon in your Porridge it seems to offset the carbs

I am definitely of the opinion that the whole problem is Insulin Resistance + bad advice on diet. These come before the excess hunger and the weight gain, in my opinion. Prior to the dietary guidelines we did eat fewer carbs. I remember in my childhood regularly having a boiled egg for breakfast, school dinners were fresh cooked from real food, food manufacturers now set out to make their food addictive and irresistible. I feel really sorry for these poor people, stuck in a cycle of food poor choices, ever increasing medication - deteriorating health and finally the best they are offered is life restricting surgery. It is a huge, avoidable sadness. If they spent the thousands that will be spent on each gastric bypass on proper education, on nutrition, maybe even cookery lessons, one to one support, group therapy for, say a year, maybe much less for those, like us low carbers, who 'get it' straight away - the out comes would be so much better.

I can not understand why LCHF was not mentioned in this programme surely this could avoid these terrible surgeries.
Why don't we all write to our Prime Minister (a T1 Diabetic) asking her to set up a study on LCHF without input from the drug companies.

sanguine said:

Not been on here for ages but for any new T2s (and any who would like a refresher) my guides are still on the forum (links in my sig below).

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That thread based on your first year is an inspiration and is exactly what I am aiming for- thanks for sharing.

I'm not surprised there are a lot of comments about this discussion. I watched it last night and felt very depressed about it all. It basically made you think that once you have diabetes, that's it, you are on a downwards spiral leading inevitably to complications. It did worry me to hear the ex-cricketer who has lost weight and has well controlled diabetes still ended up on kidney dialysis. I'm going to speak to my GP about it on Friday when I see him to get my Hbaic results. Did others feel the 'doom and gloom' that went with the one hour programme?

nomoredonuts said:

Again, very useful to read the contributions to this thread. This programme was a tabloid-newspaper puff piece, not up to normal Panorama standards, and nowhere near as gripping as "Fixing Dad". I too was appalled by the inaccuracies sprinkled throughout and the use of misleading statistics to drive home a one-eyed viewpoint.
If anyone thinks it worthwhile they could contact Jeremy Vine's Points of View this Sunday - pov@bbc.co.uk
If enough of us ask for a balanced second programme on success v diabetes, who knows what might happen?

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Just done this. Still fuming.

Shar67 said:

Does type 2 make you fat, or being fat gives you type 2. Bearing in mind not all fat people are diabetic and not all type 2s are fat

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Good question because the orthodoxy is that it is the sins of gluttony and sloth that are punished with diabetes by some bizarre Weight Watchers obsessed Old Testament God. That view has come up in this thread already (not the bit about the Old Testament God...) and is in fact a perennial argument on this forum.

Here is an article that frankly knocks that idea on the head. You cannot make a statement like 'Type 2 diabetics bring it on themselves' if there are multiple confounding bits of evidence proving you wrong.

Type 2 diabetes, weight gain and lack of energy are symptoms of underlying metabolic dysfunction not the causes of it.

Over to Dr Kendrick:

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2015/01/23/thinking-about-obesity-and-diabetes/

Best

Dillinger

Edited by a mod

....if I could like a post, I'd have liked that one Dillinger.

Hornplayer almost but not quite overcame her phobia of hitting the like button +1 for Panorama!

No control of chocolate, but then says he doesn't turn to alcohol or drugs, an addiction is an addiction no matter what, don't be a hypocrite, people with addictive personalities swap addictions, the program didn't look at type 2's who were proactive, just those that needed surgery, typical biased BBC looking at the worst case scenarios, rather than those looking to lead a normal life.