The Men Who Made Us Fat

[Truffle]

I agree.... but one Jaffa cake was never enough!

 

[borofergie]

I've mentioned before, there just isn't the temptation to snack when you're out and about here. You can have a coffee but no food and You can get lunch between 12 and 2pm The only exception is Mc Ds, which is right on the edge of town. Apart from the tourists eating ice creams in summer, I don't often see anyone eating in the street either.

+1

That's almost certainly a major reason why France has less obesity than the UK.

More resistance to American cultural imperialism, and a stricter adherence to a more traditional diet.

I wonder if obesity is just an American cultural virus, that is slowly contaminating the whole world?

I never went to MacDonalds before I was about 12. Take-away food meant fish and chips on a Friday (if we were lucky).

 

[Dillinger]

I recorded this but haven't seen this yet.

Just on the subject of losing weight and the energy in /energy out thing when I started taking Metformin at the beginning of last year my LCHF diet did not change at all, my insulin requirement went down, and my exercise went down as Infant Dillinger #2 (as we so imaginatively called him) arrived and put an end to me running at the weekend. And my weight? Well over 6 months I think I lost almost 10 kg. Anecdotal? Of course, but for me it is the 'black swan' * to the eat less do more argument for weight loss.

Energy in / energy out as an explanation of weight gain and weight loss is ok if you are a combustion engine but not if you are an interconnecting system of sophisticated homeostatic systems (which we all are) that behaves in different ways depending on the amount and type of energy coming in and the amount of energy going out.

Best

Dillinger

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability

 

[phoenix]

I wonder if obesity is just an American cultural virus, that is slowly contaminating the whole world?

In retreat?
http://www.wphna.org/2012_feb_hp2_mcdonalds.htm

 

[borofergie]

Energy in / energy out as an explanation of weight gain and weight loss is ok if you are a combustion engine but not if you are an interconnecting system of sophisticated homeostatic systems (which we all are) that behaves in different ways depending on the amount and type of energy coming in and the amount of energy going out.

+1

"Humans are not bomb calorimeters"

I love the idea of the Black Swan thing, but the book was tedious and awful (the science book, not the ballet dancing thing).

 

[Paul1976]

I've mentioned before, there just isn't the temptation to snack when you're out and about here. You can have a coffee but no food and You can get lunch between 12 and 2pm The only exception is Mc Ds, which is right on the edge of town. Apart from the tourists eating ice creams in summer, I don't often see anyone eating in the street either.

+1

That's almost certainly a major reason why France has less obesity than the UK.

More resistance to American cultural imperialism, and a stricter adherence to a more traditional diet.

I wonder if obesity is just an American cultural virus, that is slowly contaminating the whole world?

I never went to MacDonalds before I was about 12. Take-away food meant fish and chips on a Friday (if we were lucky).

Similar story really,my parents were old school and so takeaways were as you say,fish 'n' chip supper on a friday with the chips cooked in beef dripping which were very moreish as I remember,my mum always cooked in butter,lard or dripping when I was small and I was slim,full of energy and life was good.When I moved out of home to live with my girlfriend(now wife) I discovered Maccy 'd's,pizza Hut,Bella Pasta and a whole load more,I then started to gain weight and became 5st heavier than the 10st I had always been,just put it down to contentment,the mad carb fests and blowouts didn't enter the equation AT ALL and then I got diagnosed,found this place,learned about LCHF diet regimes and well,the rest is history...

 

[xyzzy]

Undue influence?

Kellogg’s

According to Kellogg’s 2006 annual report, sales in North America equaled US$7.4 billion (67.3 percent of total sales, up 8 percent from 2005). Full-year revenues were US$11 billion, making Kellogg’s the world’s leading producer of ready-to-eat cereal products. It commands 40 percent of global breakfast cereal sales and makes about 50 percent of Asian prepackaged cereals. However, Asia represents only 2 percent of total company revenues.

Popular cereal brands include Kellogg’s Corn Flakes and Rice Crispies. Typical ingredients of cornflakes include;

Milled Corn
Sugar (Sucrose)
Malt flavoring
High fructose corn syrup (HFCS)
Salt
Iron

Kellogg’s is also a leading seller of convenience foods such as fruit snacks, cereal bars, crackers, toasted pastries, cookies and frozen waffles.

One of DiabetesUK (DUK) sponsors is of course Kellogs. What on earth is a Diabetic charity doing accepting their patronage. A direct conflict of interest if ever there was one. I have tried to find out how much they donate but haven't been able to yet.

Not just me who questions this kind of thing and its influence

From http://www.foodmagazine.org.uk/articles/royal_endorsement_/ which questions why several companies have a royal warrant.

Breakfast cereals

Kellogg’s, Quaker, and Weetabix have all been granted the Royal Warrant by The Queen, with Weetabix getting a second approval from The Prince of Wales.
Kellogg’s has been repeatedly criticised for producing high sugar cereals, and for irresponsible marketing practices – but it has also managed to win the Readers Digest ‘most trusted cereal brand’ for the last three years. The company is adept at marketing itself as a trusted brand despite the poor nutritional profile of some of its products, and the placement of the Royal Warrant on Kellogg’s products is sure to bolster this image.
Quaker also display the Royal Warrant on their packaging, but they do at least produce healthier breakfast cereals, as do Weetabix, who choose not to display either The Queen’s or The Prince of Wale’s Warrants at the present time.

 

[noblehead]

There is one other thing that was mentioned in last nights program that has until now not been discussed and that was 'snacking' or eating between meals, which is something that was never ever done when I was growing up. And nowadays a whole industry has developed to sell us stuff to eat between meals or to sell us things to eat 'on the go', there is now a Greggs or similar on every high street selling nothing but sandwiches, rolls and pastry items, sausage rolls, pies etc etc. Instead of the Cadbury's chocolate bar that I would get as a treat as a lad, today there are a million different chock bars and sweets that are there to tempt the passing consumer.

But, it is not mandatory to eat these things, when you walk past a Greggs no one rushes out and says "wanna buy some carbs mate" Greggs arent drug dealers they are selling perfectly legal and legitimate food items, but what did we eat before they came along? Well breakfast, lunch and dinner thats what, when we filled the car with petrol a 'man' ran out of the garage and did it for us so we didnt have to queue next to a display of chocolate bars and crisps. Oh and crisps lol, when I were a lad lol, it was Smiths potato crisps that came with a little bag of salt, that was it, there were no other flavours, no choice, today you can buy pretty much any flavour you can think of in any shape you can imagine.

So whats the point of this historical rant, well there is now all this stuff available 24 hours a day to tempt us BUT it is still up to us whether we eat it or not. I have been overweight since my late teens as I stated earlier in this thread or another one, not obese, that came later but certainly overweight, and I got to be overweight by eating and drinking too much, I cant blame the food industry because I ate too much, I have no one to blame but myself for eating 3 chocolate bars a day and having twice as much for lunch as I needed. It wasnt till my diabetes diagnosis that I started looking at what I was eating and I was staggered at the amount of rubbish I was stuffing my face with.

We cant turn back the clock to the 1950's or 60's we have moved on, we have to decide what we will eat and if we chose to overeat that is our choice, I think to blame the food industry for obesity is naive, a bit like blaming the automotive industry for the general lack of exercise today, we need to temper convenience with self discipline, I could drive to the local shop or I could leave the car at home and walk or I could eat a whole packet of Jaffa Cakes or I could just have one and put the rest back in the cupboard or better still just buy them for a treat for the kids to have occasionally, cos lets face it, no one needs a Jaffa Cake, ever, do they?

+ 1 Sidney

When I was a lad ( :roll: ) we never had the money to buy snacks or sweets between meals and the food we consumed at meal-times was soon burnt off playing outdoors and walking to and from school, most meals were made from fresh ingredients and bread was the only processed food consumed on a regular bases.

When we were all discussing our modern sedentary lifestyles in a other thread last week Unbeliever (I think it was you but apologies if it wasn't) said that exercise is now something we see as a chore rather than something that is part of our everyday life whether we liked it or not, our lifestyle have changed so much in recent years and although we are more comfortably well off we are paying the price for relying on convenience/ fast foods and our reluctance to ditch the motor car and walk.

 

[xyzzy]

When I was a lad ( :roll: ) we never had the money to buy snacks or sweets between meals and the food we consumed at meal-times was soon burnt off playing outdoors and walking to and from school, most meals were made from fresh ingredients and bread was the only processed food consumed on a regular bases.

When we were all discussing our modern sedentary lifestyles in a other thread last week Unbeliever (I think it was you but apologies if it wasn't) said that exercise is now something we see as a chore rather than something that is part of our everyday life whether we liked it or not, our lifestyle have changed so much in recent years and although we are more comfortably well off we are paying the price for relying on convenience/ fast foods and our reluctance to ditch the motor car and walk.

Ah I see, its got nothing whatsoever to do with food companies filling low fat products full of carbohydrates and sugar and marketing them as healthy then ?

The fact I've walked an average of 3 - 5km a day for donkey's years and have never particularly eaten fast food as I loathe the companies that push it (and stated that on this forum many times) doesn't enter into it?

I see its all MY fault for being stupid, lazy and slothful, thanks for putting me straight on that.

 

[Sid Bonkers]

Best

Dillinger

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability

Sadly not a very good analogy Dillinger as Mute Swans (Cygnus olor) and Whooper Swans (Cygnus cygnus) are always white.

Only the Black Swan (Cygnus atratus) is black and is only found naturally in Australia, although it is the same family 'Anatidae' it is a totally different genus.

 

[Sid Bonkers]

Ah I see, its got nothing whatsoever to do with food companies filling low fat products full of carbohydrates and sugar and marketing them as healthy then ?

The fact I've walked an average of 3 - 5km a day for donkey's years and have never particularly eaten fast food as I loathe the companies that push it (and stated that on this forum many times) doesn't enter into it?

I see its all MY fault for being stupid, lazy and slothful, thanks for putting me straight on that.

Confrontational as always I see xyzzy, if you have never eaten fast food then you cant blame it for your being overweight can you? So in your case it obviously has nothing to do with sugar or the food industry, how could it if you have never eaten it?

 

[noblehead]

I see its all MY fault for being stupid, lazy and slothful, thanks for putting me straight on that.

Your words not mine xyzzy! :?

 

[hanadr]

I watched most of it. I was pleased to see John Yudkin praised and to hear Robert Lustig and Gary Taubes, both of whom I've corresponded with. However I wish a bit more had been made of Ancl Keys's bad science.they did say he'd tried for 50 years to prove his theory of "Heart healthy low fat diet". However they didn't comment that he "massaged" the data and still failed. Since he managed to take the American establishment and thus The UK with him,. I suppose he succeeded.
I've tried to get a copy of Yudkin's "Pure, White and Deadly", but the last one I located on the web was priced at something like $1000 Bit beyond my budget. I did read the interlibrary loan copy a while back
Hana

 

[xyzzy]

I see its all MY fault for being stupid, lazy and slothful, thanks for putting me straight on that.

Your words not mine xyzzy! :?

Ah I see, its got nothing whatsoever to do with food companies filling low fat products full of carbohydrates and sugar and marketing them as healthy then ?

The fact I've walked an average of 3 - 5km a day for donkey's years and have never particularly eaten fast food as I loathe the companies that push it (and stated that on this forum many times) doesn't enter into it?

Perhaps you'd like to try answering my questions this time Noblehead.

 

[Sid Bonkers]

Suggesting I don't eat ANY processed food is hardly helpful, since is very difficult (not to mention expensive) not to.

+1 Swimmer

-1 (sorry Swim).

It's called Paleo. You can do it, and it isn't that expensive. In fact in some ways it is less expensive, processed food isn't cheap compared to the raw ingredient. You're paying for the convenience.

Meat and 2 veg is what your Granny probably ate every night for her dinner. There were no ready-meals or microwaves in site back then. People even used to boil their own rice! Can you imagine such a thing....

I have always boiled my own rice, the only time I have ever eaten pre cooked or 'quick cook' rice was when I used to take it fishing and I used to think it was awful TBH :lol:

But I make you right about 'real' food not being that expensive, you just have to look at vegetables, not so long ago when money was not an issue I would buy those pretty ready to go packs of carrots and green beans and baby sweet corn from the supermarket, what could be easier? Now I no longer work and we need to be a little more canny with the dosh we buy loose carrots, beans, onions, broccoli etc etc not only do you not throw so much away as we only buy what we need, two carrots or a small floret of broccoli etc, it is so much less expensive. OK it doesnt look as pretty as the ready to cook packs but its the same product at a fraction of the price.

Chicken is pretty cheap too at present so two chicken breasts and a couple of bits of veg and you have a meal for two for less than £3.00 whereas two TV dinners would cost that much each or more. Plus if you prepare and cook it yourself you know whats in it :thumbup:

 

[xyzzy]

he'd tried for 50 years to prove his theory of "Heart healthy low fat diet". However they didn't comment that he "massaged" the data and still failed.

Would like to read about that Hana. Could you PM me any links or similar things you may know of. It doesn't surprise me in the least as it's exactly what the program was successfully stating in the sense that money and corruption are what won the day not good science.

 

[noblehead]

Ah I see, its got nothing whatsoever to do with food companies filling low fat products full of carbohydrates and sugar and marketing them as healthy then ?

The fact I've walked an average of 3 - 5km a day for donkey's years and have never particularly eaten fast food as I loathe the companies that push it (and stated that on this forum many times) doesn't enter into it?

Perhaps you'd like to try answering my questions this time Noblehead.[/quote]


Of course it's part of the problem and the government need to address the issue like they have done with fat and salt content in our foods. Could you please answer me a question then, where did I use the words Stupid Lazy Slothful in my previous posts or where it was directed at you?..........if you can't then I would ask you not to try and twist people's posts out of context in future.

 

[Dillinger]

However I wish a bit more had been made of Ancl Keys's bad science.

He was a piece of work wasn't he? He is responsible for the modern fixation with the Body Mass Index as a tool for use in individuals (designed as it was as a way of evaluating average weight in a population) and the K-Rations used by the US Army. Shows what you can do if you are super pushy and don't allow yourself to be troubled by 'facts'.

Dillinger

 

[xyzzy]

Ah I see, its got nothing whatsoever to do with food companies filling low fat products full of carbohydrates and sugar and marketing them as healthy then ?

The fact I've walked an average of 3 - 5km a day for donkey's years and have never particularly eaten fast food as I loathe the companies that push it (and stated that on this forum many times) doesn't enter into it?

Perhaps you'd like to try answering my questions this time Noblehead.

Of course it's part of the problem and the government need to address the issue like they have done with fat and salt content in our foods. Could you please answer me a question then, where did I use the words Stupid Lazy Slothful in my previous posts or where it was directed at you?..........if you can't then I would ask you not to try and twist people's posts out of context in future.

.... but isn't as you state "like they have done with fat " exactly the problem. They have addressed fat by removing it and replacing it with something called "low fat" which really means "more sugar". Don't you agree? Seems blatantly obvious to me and lots of other people.

I can certainly explain my "Stupid Lazy Slothful" statement. It was meant entirely rhetorically without malice as in "to inform, persuade, or motivate particular audiences". It certainly got your attention and now we are happily discussing the pro's and cons of "low fat" which is central to what the TV program was talking about.

 

[Sid Bonkers]

Just for a bit of balance some of you may care to read this piece in the Guardian from Jan 1999 its entitled 'Pure, White and No Longer Quite So Dangerous' http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/1 ... ures11.g25

And for those who really want to read 'Pure, White and Deadly' it is available as a PDF download if you know why to look. Google is your friend :wink: