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The one show discussion

Tannith said:
What I have been trying in vain to say is that Prof Taylor's METHOD ie getting the fat off the liver and pancreas to reverse diabetes works, nd it works for as long as the subject keeps the fat off.
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But that's not necessarily 'curing' diabetes, just controlling diabetes via diet. And it may also highlight issues around generalising T2. So Prof Taylor's theory is fine, ie there's an ideal or safe ratio for pancreatic/visceral fat. That's a testable hypothesis, and Prof Taylor's done trials to do that. The null hypothesis would be if people end up in the 'normal' ratio, but remain diabetic. This may also explain the 'thin but T2' issue, ie those people may still have high pancreatic fat, but it's not obvious from just looking at them. Or it's about more than just pancreatic fat.

To me though, 'reversing' or 'curing' diabetes would mean I could eat what I want (or just Eatwell) and not worry about weight gain or high BG levels. And by normal, I mean a typical man-sized 2,000 calories a day.

What ND may be showing is it's possible to have a transient T2 in some patients. But other studies, like the Lim paper I cited earlier show a shrinking pancreatic volume in people who've been diagnosed T2 for 5-10+ years. If the media promote this as a simple cure, people may assume they've cured themselves, but their underlying T2 progresses, leading to permanent and severe damage. Prof Taylor's comments have usually been professional and cautious, the media reporting, much less so.
 
ND only works for some. My objection is that it is touted as the Be All and End All Cure For All. It isnt that simple. It is effective for some, not all. This heralding it as a cure all, and blaming people for not trying hard enough when it doesnt work for them, is unfair and unreasonable, but typical of the stuff coming out of many medic and researchers mouths.

Media twisting and reporting of results is also harmful to both those of us for whom dieting doesnt work, and for those who will think they are cured, then find they are not.
 
Mr_Pot said:
If you are on a very low carb diet I understand that you need to have some higher carb meals for a while beforehand to make the test valid. I don't know the details unfortunately.
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I found this:-

http://penlanhealthcare.com/what-is-an-oral-glucose-tolerance-test

Usually the OGTT is performed in the morning as glucose tolerance can exhibit a diurnal rhythm with a significant decrease in the afternoon. The patient is instructed to fast (water is allowed) for 8–12 hours prior to the tests.
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So that would be breakfast sorted! Now I just need to find some Rapilose.. And see if I can tolerate it. I've never really liked full-fat soft drinks due to the syrupy mouth feel. But this is for science! :)
 
lindisfel said:
Hi Zand,
He thinks it's similar to bariatric surgery.
But I would have thought that is the last resort.

Until our kind of diets become main stream we will get all sorts of cures thrown around.

Some of these science guys keep to the mainstream and keep their funding.
Basically his shakes are a shrunken eat well! :)
regards
Derek
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Yes and it's a good alternative to bariatric surgery. My feeling is that if you don't need bariatric surgery you would be better off doing Dr Mosely's real food version or LCHF.
 
first14808 said:
So that would be breakfast sorted! Now I just need to find some Rapilose.. And see if I can tolerate it. I've never really liked full-fat soft drinks due to the syrupy mouth feel. But this is for science!
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https://www.gpsupplies.com/catalog/...pilose-ogtt-glucose-solution-300ml-pack-of-1/

Instructions for use

1. Patient Preparation
The test should only be carried out on patients who are on a stable diet, at a constant weight and
with no acute illness. The patient should have maintained an adequate carbohydrate intake (125-
150g/day) for three days prior to the scheduled OGTT. The patient is required to fast overnight
before the test for a minimum nine hours with nothing by mouth except water (no medications,
caffeine or tobacco).
Other factors can weaken the diagnostic power of the test and should be avoided as far as possible.
These include severe inactivity over the preceding weeks, bed rest for several days, medical or
surgical stress, fear of venepuncture, smoking during the test and certain drugs including thiazides,
ß-blockers, glucocorticoids and phenytoin.
 
Tannith said:
But I am trying to say that it is grossly unfair to blame Prof Taylor or imply his METHOD doesn't work just because many of his subjects are unwilling or unable to stick to either the initial diet or the refeeding/follow up arrangements. That is to do with human failure not the failure of the pancreatic/liver fat theory. That is not a jibe at anyone.
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But that is simply incorrect.. his method of effectively starving people to lose weight is, as most people know, almost impossible to maintain afterwards as your metabolism slows and you start to regain. If however you lose weight whilst eating properly without severe restriction it becomes far easier to maintain. That is why I have such a huge problem with the ND. Prof Taylor is simply setting people up to fail in much the same way as the Biggest Loser program does. If you can't maintain the slimmer state then whilst you may have had the benefits for a few months in the long term its a bit pointless. Stop blaming the people for whom this is ineffective and look at the methodology which may be what is at fault.
 
@Tannith until you do an OGTT you don't really know whether your own diabetes has gone or not. It could be merely temporary just like mine was.
 
zand said:
@Tannith until you do an OGTT you don't really know whether your own diabetes has gone or not. It could be merely temporary just like mine was.
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And, @Tannith, for as long as you keep ignoring my offer to send you some Rapilose, and ignoring my pledge to do the ND for 8 weeks if you get a good result in an OGTT, I'll have to assume you are not, in fact, remotely curious about the Newcastle Diet, its effects, and spreading the health benefits that you apparently strongly believe it has.

I really cannot comprehend your complete lack of response. You have repeatedly, in this thread and others, told people to do the ND, now finally you have someone saying they are willing to do it, but you ignore that.

I am at this point seriously suspicious of you. I hope you will prove me wrong.
 
rab5 said:
You think so. Time to stop the science then. That should save a bit of money
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800 calories meal replacement diets have been around for at least 35 years. I don't see what's new about this one. So the diet hasn't changed, it's just that a Professor thinks that starving people can help them reverse their diabetes by removing fat from their organs. Gosh, really who would have thought it?!
 
Why don’t you give @Tannith a f******g break. If he wants to believe he is cured or not he is entitled to have his own opinion. I sometimes think on forums people can be quite ott
 
rab5 said:
Why don’t you give @Tannith a f******g break. If he wants to believe he is cured or not he is entitled to have his own opinion. I sometimes think on forums people can be quite ott
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I think you are mis-reading the situation.

Tannith is not a 'he', and she has made sweeping statements about people which people are defending themselves against, and I think your post was ott.
 
rab5 said:
Why don’t you give @Tannith a f******g break. If he wants to believe he is cured or not he is entitled to have his own opinion. I sometimes think on forums people can be quite ott
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And Tannith is another one of those ott people! Telling us that if the diet didn't work we didn't do it properly, riding roughshod over the rest of us calling us weak etc.

Oh and in post no 100 in this thread SHE says

'Why is it no one expects to have to do anything difficult any more? Can it be a generational thing? If I can do it and I am a little old lady in my seventies why can't big strong middle aged men? '

Just letting you know Tannith is a lady. :)
 
zand said:
And Tannith is another one of those ott people! Telling us that if the diet didn't work we didn't do it properly, riding roughshod over the rest of us calling us weak etc.

Oh and in post no 100 in this thread SHE says

'Why is it no one expects to have to do anything difficult any more? Can it be a generational thing? If I can do it and I am a little old lady in my seventies why can't big strong middle aged men? '

Just letting you know Tannith is a lady. :)
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Well said. There is only one person, unless I've missed it, who has made OTT, and misleading, and potentially offensive remarks in this thread. I think people are generally doing a very good job in responding to them politely.
 
your like a pack of dogs lads/ladies.....
 
AdamJames said:
I think you are mis-reading the situation.

Tannith is not a 'he', and she has made sweeping statements about people which people are defending themselves against, and I think your post was ott.
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Are you the diabetics police... its the internet....
 
rab5 said:
Are you the diabetics police... its the internet....
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No, I'm not trying to police anything here, nor am I making antagonistic posts to anyone. What about you? Again, I think you are mis-reading the situation.

If you feel somebody is being harassed in this thread, please press the 'report' button on the offending posts and let the mods decide.
 
zand said:
And Tannith is another one of those ott people! Telling us that if the diet didn't work we didn't do it properly, riding roughshod over the rest of us calling us weak etc.

Oh and in post no 100 in this thread SHE says

'Why is it no one expects to have to do anything difficult any more? Can it be a generational thing? If I can do it and I am a little old lady in my seventies why can't big strong middle aged men? '

Just letting you know Tannith is a lady. :)
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you must be very proud... 'a little old lady in her seventies'........
 
AdamJames said:
No, I'm not trying to police anything here, nor am I making antagonistic posts to anyone. What about you? Again, I think you are mis-reading the situation.

If you feel somebody is being harassed in this thread, please press the 'report' button on the offending posts and let the mods decide.
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not my style......
 
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