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The one show discussion

Stepping in with my mod hat on..

Thread is going way off topic, with personal attacks, which must stop.
Everyone needs to be aware of rules and ethos....
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/community-ethos-forum-rules.50278/
In particular:
'1. The Diabetes Forum is our Member interaction area, where questions are asked and exchanges of views take place. Please ask questions, provide answers, start debates and challenge where appropriate - but please be compassionate, considerate and kind towards others. Civil debate is healthy, but rudeness, bullying and/or Member belittling is not acceptable and will not be tolerated.'
 
rab5 said:
you must be very proud... 'a little old lady in her seventies'........
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is there something wrong with challenging a little old lady in her seventies who is both wrong and insulting? in fact, is there anything wrong with challenging anyone, regardless of their height/size or age or gender anyway?

You should tackle my MIL, she is 85 and take no prisoners : ) she would be livid at being patronized and condescended to due to her height, gender or age.
 
lucylocket61 said:
is there something wrong with challenging a little old lady in her seventies who is both wrong and insulting? in fact, is there anything wrong with challenging anyone, regardless of their height/size or age or gender anyway?

You should tackle my MIL, she is 85 and take no prisoners : ) she would be livid at being patronized and condescended to due to her height, gender or age.
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Yeh there is...... especially the way I was reared and maybe the way I respect little old ladies
 
meanwhile, back on topic: this programme only featured 4 people. The ND has had a small testing pool. Anyone know if there is a big study happening or in the pipeline and a follow up of the original people involved in earlier ND studies?
 
lucylocket61 said:
meanwhile, back on topic: this programme only featured 4 people. The ND has had a small testing pool. Anyone know if there is a big study happening or in the pipeline and a follow up of the original people involved in earlier ND studies?
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I think the DiRECT study intends to follow up regularly for some years. They reported after the first year as that was their first measuring stick - what the participant's HbA1c was after a year. At that first report they said they wanted to assess the long-term benefits or adverse effects of the approach.
 
rab5 said:
your like a pack of dogs lads/ladies.....
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Now who is being offensive. woof woof..

I kept to 800 and less calories for two years and low carbs without shakes or any form of meal replacement

But I will never be free of diabetes as I take prednisolone so can never truly reverse my diabetes or properly achieve remission no matter what my diet is ND or what ever.

Edit
Sorry definitely got a case of the shakes there so removed one
Edit again had to replace the l in replacement
 
Last edited:
If my softly softly request for members to be considerate and polite to each other does not take effect, deletions of posts and sanctions will be necessary.
 
zand said:
800 calories meal replacement diets have been around for at least 35 years. I don't see what's new about this one. So the diet hasn't changed, it's just that a Professor thinks that starving people can help them reverse their diabetes by removing fat from their organs. Gosh, really who would have thought it?!
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I think I'm the cat that curiosity killed. I'm still willing to give the ND a go in spite of things like this.

From my own reading around, the way I see it, anyone who has been obese is going to have big problems getting and staying thin. Doesn't matter whether you try fast or slow weight loss, your resting metabolism is going to be greatly reduced, and the amount of food you will need to eat in order to stay at that weight is going to be shockingly small.

All it would take to push me over the edge to try it would be evidence of its effect on glucose tolerance. This was sadly lacking in the DiRECT study, and sadly poorly investigated in this documentary. If @Tannith or anyone else who has been diagnosed T2 can clearly show a graph of great glucose tolerance after doing the ND, that would definitely persuade to to give it a go.
 
AdamJames said:
what the participant's HbA1c was after a year
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I must have missed that .... I read that he said the successful ones (48% of not very many) had an HbA1c under 48. No mention of how near or far from the magical 48. All the initial criticism on this forum on the original thread revolved round the "under 48", which was after a year, with 2 months or more off meds. It seemed to be a general consensus that "under 48" was a bit optimistic, and that the criteria used to announce reversed" was a bit too generous without knowing the actual numbers.

By the way, before anyone jumps in and disrespects me, I am also a little old lady in her 70's. ;)
 
Bluetit1802 said:
I must have missed that .... I read that he said the successful ones (48% of not very many) had an HbA1c under 48. No mention of how near or far from the magical 48.
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Yes good point, they didn't report the actual numbers. I presume they collected the numbers but I've never seen them reported - yet another frustrating lack of info from this study.
 
AdamJames said:
I think I'm the cat that curiosity killed. I'm still willing to give the ND a go in spite of things like this.
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And that's why I have tried it twice. Once with real food after being diagnosed for just a day.
 
AdamJames said:
From my own reading around, the way I see it, anyone who has been obese is going to have big problems getting and staying thin. Doesn't matter whether you try fast or slow weight loss, your resting metabolism is going to be greatly reduced, and the amount of food you will need to eat in order to stay at that weight is going to be shockingly small.
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Disagree. Some, maybe, but definitely not all. "anyone who has been obese" is sweeping. There are several previously obese people on this forum that have managed to achieve thinness or slimness, and I am one, and have maintained it since 2014. Entirely on a LCHF diet and a fairly sedentary life. Also, the amount of food I eat is not shockingly small, and not particularly restrictive. In fact, I actually achieved what Prof Taylor's successful subjects achieved, and better, in a lot less time.
 
AdamJames said:
From my own reading around, the way I see it, anyone who has been obese is going to have big problems getting and staying thin. Doesn't matter whether you try fast or slow weight loss, your resting metabolism is going to be greatly reduced, and the amount of food you will need to eat in order to stay at that weight is going to be shockingly small.
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Interestingly the weightloss was quicker whilst having between 1200-1500 calories on LCHF than it was on 800 and 600 cals. . And then there's the fat fast that I think I already mentioned on this thread where I lost weight on over 2100 cals a day

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/my-5-day-dairy-fat-fast.81433/

My theory is that if you don't cut calories so drastically then your metabolism doesn't suffer so much. I am convinced that it's carbs that matter and not cals. The ND works for some initially because they are greatly reducing their carb intake.

Edit: just looked at my old thread, my average daily cal intake over 5 days was 2312 and I lost 6 pounds.
 
Bluetit1802 said:
Disagree. Some, maybe, but definitely not all. "anyone who has been obese" is sweeping. There are several previously obese people on this forum that have managed to achieve thinness or slimness, and I am one, and have maintained it since 2014. Entirely on a LCHF diet and a fairly sedentary life. Also, the amount of food I eat is not shockingly small, and not particularly restrictive. In fact, I actually achieved what Prof Taylor's successful subjects achieved, and better, in a lot less time.
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Drat, I seem to have fallen into the sweeping statement pitfall! That certainly wasn't my intention. I was referring to the many studies I've read which compare rapid to slow weight loss, and the many attempts to avoid the reduction of resting metabolism all of which seem to have failed in the long term. I could have stated it better!

Anyway it's good to hear it when obese people have found a way to stay truly slim i.e. keep the visceral fat off.
 
zand said:
Interestingly the weightloss was quicker whilst having between 1200-1500 calories on LCHF than it was on 800 and 600 cals. . And then there's the fat fast that I think I already mentioned on this thread where I lost weight on over 2100 cals a day

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/my-5-day-dairy-fat-fast.81433/

My theory is that if you don't cut calories so drastically then your metabolism doesn't suffer so much. I am convinced that it's carbs that matter and not cals. The ND works for some initially because they are greatly reducing their carb intake.

Edit: just looked at my old thread, my average daily cal intake over 5 days was 2312 and I lost 6 pounds.
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Interesting.

I really wish I could get this right. I was definitely going through a very successful period of fairly rapid weight loss and good blood sugar control a few months ago, and having, I seem to remember, about 1,600 to 2,000 calories a day, plus an hour's walking in the evening and lots of good sleep.

It all went wrong when I started doing big hikes at the weekend and I can't seem to compensate for that properly. There seem to be so many variables that I'm almost tempted to ignore them all, stop trying to work things out, and just go back to what was working - give up the hiking, and go back to the same foods, same timing, same pattern of activity of a few months ago.

If I'm going to give up my weekend hobbies though, I'm also thinking this could be the time to try the ND, as one of the reasons I've been avoiding it is because it wouldn't give me the energy for the weekends.

It's just so frustrating not being able to see simple evidence of the effect of various approaches, like a decent plot from an OGTT after trying a certain approach.
 
Bluetit1802 said:
It is good to hear when anyone finds a way to lose weight and keep it off. My visceral fat is 6 according to my Tanita scales. Sadly, I don't know what it was previously.
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No fair, mine's 8 after 7 months of logging:-

April_2018_visceral.JPG

It's also interesting to be able to see the effects of increasing my exercise. So weight loss slowed, but then I've increased muscle mass by 3kgs since beginning this journey. And I feel so much younger! Or I should given what the scales think my metabolic age is :)
 
@AdamJames Have you tried posting on the Fitness, exercise and sport sub-forum about what you need to eat for your hikes? I am sure it isn't necessary to eat a lot of carbs.
 
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