this should be called the insulin forum

Well yes, or it could be the pancreas forum.

I suppose you're right but if T1's could make it and T2's could use it there would be no diabetes and no need for this forum. So it seems only reasonable that we spend our time on here learning about it and discussing it

Insulin seems to be fairly central to this diabetes thing...... who knew?

I think it’s much more complex than just insulin!
@johnme , you could always email DCUK with your suggestion, but I doubt it will be changed
If we were told we absolutely had to change the forum’s name I think metabolism.co.uk would probably be a more encompassing name to use? (And that domain name is available! )

People tend to Google "Diabetes" when first diagnosed or suspicious of having diabetes. The word needs to be in the name for them. It's the first word we think of. Our knowledge about other aspects tends to come later. Plus, insulin is only one part of the condition and complications we discuss.

johnme said:

Yes of course. You've given a serious answer which maybe I didn't deserve. What I meant was, wherever I go with this diabetes issue I come up against insulin. Isn't it Jason Fong who says T2 is a disease of insulin resistance?

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And you’d be amazed (or maybe not) how many type 2 diabetics out in the world at large know little of how insulin affects their condition. A huge % assume it’s like type 1 and they simply don’t make enough of it and the only difference is whether or not they inject more. Few know about insulin resistance or hyperinsulemia or the relationship to other metabolic issues.

If you're type 1 (Dead Pancreas Society) you have too much glucagon if you'd like a new twist but yes I am minded to agree with you, insulin is the Tsar of all Hormones.
If we did a YouGov of the general public though I feel they'd mention blood sugar as the key 'thing' about diabetes unless hey done a biology gsce rescently.

Then there are those that produce too much insulin!

NicoleC1971 said:

If you're type 1 (Dead Pancreas Society) you have too much glucagon if you'd like a new twist but yes I am minded to agree with you, insulin is the Tsar of all Hormones.
If we did a YouGov of the general public though I feel they'd mention blood sugar as the key 'thing' about diabetes unless hey done a biology gsce rescently.

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Having seen what they taught my son’s girlfriend at A level biology about diabetes I doubt even those students would say differently. Hopeless would be an understatement

When I was just out of nappies, and for most of my youth, I wartched as my mother prepared her kit - steralizing her syringes and long thick needles in a saucepan, then gettting a phial out of the fridge and piercing the rubber bung to fill the syringe, and then applying it. I vowed from an early age that me and injections were not a happy fit,

Then I got diagnosed as T2D and immediately went on a trip down De Nile. The doc told me it was progressive and that I would be on insulin in about 7 to 10 years. That was over 30 years ago. Some 5 years ago the day came when my doc's words came about, and I was max'ed out on oral meds, and my HbA1c came in at 106. Insulin for you my boy he said. Nope I said, and joined this site. I learnt all I could about insulin and metabolism and voila, I am now still diet controlled, on a holding dose of medication to keep my prescriptions going, and happy to report I am in the pre-diabetic range and low carbing quite happily.

i am happy because diabetes forced me to look at how my body works, and gain an understanding of my condition that probably surpasses what my doctor knows, I am not burnt out after all, and my pancreas still produces insulin. You could call the T2D section The C-Peptide Club.

johnme said:

Okay, an exaggeration but… you’ve got no insulin - type one. Too much insulin? Type two probably. Don’t respond to insulin? Right here. Want to lose weight? Insulin. Spent your life fat? How’s your insulin? What happens if you are given insulin? You put on the pounds. Keto diet? What are you doing on keto except driving insulin down? Hungry all the time? Insulin/grehlin/leptin

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I think I get what you mean. Every conversation about diabetes (and I don't mean this forum as such, as all areas are considered and spoken about thankfully), is always about 'sugar' or weight loss or food, etc. Of course those things are an integral part of it, but out in the big wide world you don't hear much about the insulin aspect (unless you are type 1 or a diabetic on insulin) and even then it's only spoken about in terms of 'eat this, take insulin' as if insulin was a medicine, ie, 'take 2 a day', nothing is said about if the insulin taken is too much or too little then its interaction with those hormones you still have that are working fine can also be negatively affected.

The role of insulin in every human is critical and works in conjunction with many other hormones. I am no biologist but my understanding is that when you eat carbs, an insulin response is required to process them. That insulin response may be a small one or a ginormous one depending on what's been eaten, and dependent on how your body is working no matter the type, the body will struggle to utilise that insulin properly or be unable to because of a lack of it. Even when injecting it, it still depends on interaction with your other hormones which may be working perfectly or may not.

I think you are saying that insulin and its role is almost casually tossed aside (especially in type 2 conversations) and its function across all diabetics is treated almost as an aside. I believe it should be right up there as a crucial factor in what diabetes is about and its causes, instead of this 'you eat too much rubbish and don't follow a healthy lifestyle' claptrap. I am not saying following a healthy lifestyle doesn't matter, of course it does especially when you have a health condition but I for one, am sick of this attitude of 'Your fault'.

johnme said:

Yes of course. You've given a serious answer which maybe I didn't deserve. What I meant was, wherever I go with this diabetes issue I come up against insulin. Isn't it Jason Fong who says T2 is a disease of insulin resistance?

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Prof Ben Bikman would say hyperinsulinaemia.. and to be honest I'd probably agree with him.

I joined this forum to talk about gardening

Insulin is massively important. T2 Diabetes is a consequence of insulin resistance. You will have insulin resistance long before you have any symptoms of T2 diabetes and long before you get diagnosed. Consistently high insulin levels even with controlled BG levels is bad news. Consistently high insulin and consistently high BG, even worse news. We are lucky that at least there has been a lot of good research done in the last 10 to 15 years that provides insight as to why T2 Diabetes is becoming such a huge problem globally. A trend to a much higher carb diet, a very processed diet and promoting overconsumption in general, alongside much less active lifestyles have lead to a matching trend in increasing T2 Diabetes. We need balance in our lives. Once you are out of your adolescent years you have no need for consistently higher insulin levels, we should not have high carb or sugary foods in our diets all the time. We should not be grazing all day long. We should be more active. We should have some regular periods in our lives when we are eating less than our maintenance calories and forgoing starchy and sugary foods altogether (leads to low insulin and high glucagon, a combo which has lots of benefits for health and longevity). Healthy fats have always been and still are really important in our diets. The problem is that the message is not being changed by those in charge of public health yet. It is not always just about BG levels. Sometimes fasting can induce a slightly higher that your usual BG level, still not excessively high, but as a T2 you worry if it goes higher than the high 4s or the low 5s you worked so hard to get to. But for a short while a fast with intake from healthy fats and proteins gives you low insulin and high glucagon, for brief periods this is really good as it promotes autophagy, higher growth hormone (high GH to keep your muscle mass while you fast) as well as the loss of excess fat due to your calories deficit. All of which protects you from getting into the state where insulin resistance can arise again. There are more hormones and interaction being discovered all the time (e.g. resistin produced by marrow and adipose cells etc.). There is a lot to do to get people in general and in the health care sector to see things differently. Some of the problems do arise solely due to the influence of money both in the food industry and the pharmaceutical industry.

Kudos to johnme for initiating the discussion. But the problem is massive and it is the human/cultural side of the problem that is hard to tackle. The science is there. And it is always a tough fight against big money. Same reason we're still intent as a species on making our planet uninhabitable for ourselves, despite the fact we know the science is telling us we need to change radically. We live in interesting times. But then again we pretty much always have. Can we change things for the better? Let's hope so.