Those not doing low carb

[AnnieC]

Been on this forum for about three weeks now and find that the thing most talked about on here is the low carb diet Some will even go as far as saying it is the only way to control BG but I am interested in other ways to do it and how those who do not low carb control theirs sucessfully .
There must be plenty of diabetics and especially a lot of elderly people who do not even use a computer so would never hear about low carbing as health pros do not recommend it so they just follow what their GP and dietians recommend so does that mean they are not controlling their diabetes properly.

 

[catherinecherub]

I did write you a reply in your other topic, Confused about diets.

I have never used LC/HF and from my results, my G.I. diet works for me.

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/confused-about-diets.50173/#post-453018

It's all about finding a way of eating that suits you and your diabetes. Everyone can tell you what they do and how it works for them.

 

[Sid Bonkers]

There are many diabetics who are very well controlled but dont follow a lchf diet, but those who do seem to talk about it all the time so its easy to think that most low carb, they dont.

For some a lchf diet might be a good way to control T2 but for the vast majority it is unsustainable in the long term and also when you restrict carbohydrates to the extreme ie under 40g or 50g a day you run the risk of becoming more sensitive to carbs which is obviously not a good thing as those carbs that you do eat affect you much faster and much more.

Most T2 diabetics are overweight and that is a fact, around 80% of those diagnosed are overweight and the best way to gain control is to loose weight and maintain that weight loss, low carb diets are great for weight loss but only in the short term and then for most people the weight loss slows down or even stops, you will read many threads by low carbers that testify to this phenomenon.

I believe the biggest problem of the low carb diet is the high fat element as fat has double the calories of both carbs and protein so any increase of fat in a diet is counter productive to weight loss which as I have already stated is the biggest aid to good control, and even in those T2's who are not over weight will still have amassed visceral fat around there organs which is the main cause of insulin resistance which in turn is the biggest factor in T2 diabetes.

There is absolutely no need to increase fat in a diet as anyone who is overweight will require x number of calories to maintain their weight, by reducing the calories ie cutting back on carbs you will loose weight and as your weight reduces so you require fewer calories to fuel your everyday living needs, by adding more fat you just add more calories and weight loss stalls. The vast majority of people in the west overeat which is why our countries waistlines are expanding year on year. Rather than add fat just eat less of everything and you will loose weight.

The diet I used to loose weight was a reduced carb diet with no added fat and I substituted low GI carbs where ever possible and that is also what I use 5 years after shedding 5 stone to maintain my weight loss, I eat a lot less food than I used to and as I need less food to thrive I have never needed to increase the fat in my diet. I dont avoid fat I just dont add it to my diet.

 

[smidge]

Hiya!

The sad truth is that the vast majority of diabetics in this country do not attain and maintain safe HbA1cs. That is the case for both Type 1 and Type 2.

In terms of diet, I believe low-carb is the most effective way to maintain good BGs - and I don't add lots of fat to my low-carb diet - like Sid, I just don't avoid fat.

If you want to try other ways, I would suggest you cut back portions significantly. If you are overweight it will help you lose weight which might improve your BG enough depending on your pancreas's ability to produce insulin. But the harsh fact is that most diabetics have to reduce their carbs considerably even if they don't low-carb.

Smidge

 

[AnnieC]

There are many diabetics who are very well controlled but dont follow a lchf diet, but those who do seem to talk about it all the time so its easy to think that most low carb, they dont.

For some a lchf diet might be a good way to control T2 but for the vast majority it is unsustainable in the long term and also when you restrict carbohydrates to the extreme ie under 40g or 50g a day you run the risk of becoming more sensitive to carbs which is obviously not a good thing as those carbs that you do eat affect you much faster and much more.

Most T2 diabetics are overweight and that is a fact, around 80% of those diagnosed are overweight and the best way to gain control is to loose weight and maintain that weight loss, low carb diets are great for weight loss but only in the short term and then for most people the weight loss slows down or even stops, you will read many threads by low carbers that testify to this phenomenon.

I believe the biggest problem of the low carb diet is the high fat element as fat has double the calories of both carbs and protein so any increase of fat in a diet is counter productive to weight loss which as I have already stated is the biggest aid to good control, and even in those T2's who are not over weight will still have amassed visceral fat around there organs which is the main cause of insulin resistance which in turn is the biggest factor in T2 diabetes.

There is absolutely no need to increase fat in a diet as anyone who is overweight will require x number of calories to maintain their weight, by reducing the calories ie cutting back on carbs you will loose weight and as your weight reduces so you require fewer calories to fuel your everyday living needs, by adding more fat you just add more calories and weight loss stalls. The vast majority of people in the west overeat which is why our countries waistlines are expanding year on year. Rather than add fat just eat less of everything and you will loose weight.

The diet I used to loose weight was a reduced carb diet with no added fat and I substituted low GI carbs where ever possible and that is also what I use 5 years after shedding 5 stone to maintain my weight loss, I eat a lot less food than I used to and as I need less food to thrive I have never needed to increase the fat in my diet. I dont avoid fat I just dont add it to my diet.

I spoke to my GP about low carb diets and she said almost the same as you that it was ok in the short term if you needed to loose weight but not as a long term diet. She was quite horrified when I said that some very low carbers did high fat and she said an awful lot of protein and fat would have to be eaten to make up for the lack of carbs and that it was not good for the body to eat much more of one thing to try to compensate for not eating another and certainly not fats. No one recommends high fat these days for anyone do they
So I think I will be sticking to my low fat low sugar diet with plenty of low fat dairy veggies and fruit and some starchy wholmeal carbs.
Just interested to know how many people have been doing low carb for and are there any that have done it really long term say five years or more

 

[mrman]

Well.... I don't low carb have good hba1c, not overweight from eating carbs, and no other problems. controlled by getting basal correct, this is key to basal/bolus. Thing is if you are on reduced carbs and decide not to for a few days your basal will also need adjusting and vice-~versa. Once that sorted concentrate on bolus ratios. Also depending on quantity of carbs eaten at a meal ratios can vary. For eg, at lunch if I eat an 80 carb meal, my ratio would be 1\12, if I was to eat 150 carbs my ratio would be 1/10 to cope with the bigger meal. Other things to consider would be gi of meal, higher the gi, the quicker the sugar is in your blood, so I leave an appropriate time after bolusing before eating to give the insulin a head start. Time of day needs to be considered, as well as a host of other things such as activity levels, illness, etc.

Now, heres the good bit, the above would apply weather low carbing or not. So is your original question relevant to low carb or not. Not really as if using insulin, the individual requires to test,record,learn to use the right amount of insulin for their body, and lifestyle.
would I low carb, can honestly say I would never go to that extreme. Would I reduce carbs ~ if needed to loose weight wouldn't I automatically do that by reducing my calories. also to point out that someone who does not low carb does not mean they eat anything, everything in sight. I just choose a low fat diet, which involves eating in the main complex carbs,salad, veg, lean meat with the occasional treat that I now know how to insulate for as to not cause a spike.
Whatever you choose to do, .needs to sustainable in the long term and be safe to do so. Is any persons diet safe these days....


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[chubbyian]

I am also with Sid on this one, I have reduced my carbs, I do not count them, and I have changed the way I eat, I do not eat a punnet of grapes in one day anymore. But the thing that really determines my diet is the GL index. I have found that bu mixing low GL type food with medium GL food you can slow the release of glycogen, I am still in the early days of losing wight, but I enjoy what a I am eating now so I think I will stay with it

 

[smidge]

Hi Brett!

I didn't see any evidence that Annie is on insulin. If she is, fair enough, there are other choices - although they're not as effective as low-carb in my opinion, they are OK for some people. If she's not on insulin she has very few choices. Lose weight assuming she is overweight, do more exercise, reduce the carbs in her diet (either alone or in conjunction with reducing portion size) and/or more Type 2 meds.

Smidge

 

[mrman]

Apologies, thought it was in ask a question section non specific of type

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[smidge]

Hi Brett!

Yeh it is in ask a question. I wasn't criticising, just pointing out that it might not apply to Annie. She seems to be a very newly-diagnosed diabetic trying to find the best way forward for her.

Smidge

 

[mrman]

Fair enough smidge

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[Daibell]

A lot depends on how advanced your diabetes is and the cause of it. Some posters on the forum only have 'mild' diabetes i.e. they have a pretty good HBa1C from a diet only approach. They may only need a small degree of carb reduction to maintain good blood sugar and weight. That's fine. Others like myself have always struggled regardless despite reducing carbs and needing tablets early on and then insulin. For those, low-carbing is not a choice it is the only way forward and means delaying further meds for a while. I agree with some of Sid's points but not all. You don't need to have high fat with the low-carb. Protein is very good apart from veg etc. You only need the fat to have the calories you actually need. Fat does not cause weight gain to the extent carbs do. Low-Carbing can mean anything from 200gm/day or less down to 30gm/day or even less. I've was low-carbing for 8 years before insulin as I had no choice, but I never went below around 100gm/day. My wife who isn't diabetic has been low-carbing for many months below 50gm/day for weight reduction and has lost a lot of weight and has never been healthier, so you can maintain a low-carb diet for many months. Choose a low-carb food mix that is sustainable. Whatever diet approach you choose remember carbs, not fats to any real extent, do result in blood sugar increase, so they have to be controlled to maintain good sugar levels.

 

[hanadr]

Hiya!

The sad truth is that the vast majority of diabetics in this country do not attain and maintain safe HbA1cs. That is the case for both Type 1 and Type 2.

In terms of diet, I believe low-carb is the most effective way to maintain good BGs - and I don't add lots of fat to my low-carb diet - like Sid, I just don't avoid fat.

If you want to try other ways, I would suggest you cut back portions significantly. If you are overweight it will help you lose weight which might improve your BG enough depending on your pancreas's ability to produce insulin. But the harsh fact is that most diabetics have to reduce their carbs considerably even if they don't low-carb.

Smidge

There's a BIG problem with people counting calories in their food. It's what led to the current "Fat Phobia". certainly fats contain double the stored chemical energy of carbs or proteins. This can be shown in a bomb calorimeter very clearly. However, animal metabolic processes do not resemble bomb calorimeters. Foods are used differently with enzymes which change what happens. I found a neat quote for this
" It's not physics, it's physiology!" Actually according to Ernest Rutherford, everything is either physics or stamp collecting, but calorie counting still doesn't apply well to human physiology.
In addition fewer than half the diabetics in this country hit HbA1cs below 7.5% [58] and non-diabetic HbA1cs are about 4.2% or 22. Our local diabetes centre frequently sees double figures
If you think 7.5% is good control, good luck to you, you will need it. If you choose to achieve it by high doses of medication, you'll need even more good luck. If you currently can keep bg down without medication you already have a lot of luck
I personally prefer not to rely on luck and to avoid eating the stuff that puts my bg up. Since I don't actually need the carbs, why eat them? Yes I ate some over the 2 celebration days of Christmas, but I'm back on track again. I'm waiting for my daughter who has a hungry husband and 2 children, to collect pretty much all the high carb Christmas goodies left here.
And Yes I do talk about low carbing, because I have found it to be a low risk way of managing bg, which MUST work for anyone with a basically normal human physiology

 

[Andy12345]

There's a BIG problem with people counting calories in their food. It's what led to the current "Fat Phobia". certainly fats contain double the stored chemical energy of carbs or proteins. This can be shown in a bomb calorimeter very clearly. However, animal metabolic processes do not resemble bomb calorimeters. Foods are used differently with enzymes which change what happens. I found a neat quote for this
" It's not physics, it's physiology!" Actually according to Ernest Rutherford, everything is either physics or stamp collecting, but calorie counting still doesn't apply well to human physiology.
In addition fewer than half the diabetics in this country hit HbA1cs below 7.5% [58] and non-diabetic HbA1cs are about 4.2% or 22. Our local diabetes centre frequently sees double figures
If you think 7.5% is good control, good luck to you, you will need it. If you choose to achieve it by high doses of medication, you'll need even more good luck. If you currently can keep bg down without medication you already have a lot of luck
I personally prefer not to rely on luck and to avoid eating the stuff that puts my bg up. Since I don't actually need the carbs, why eat them? Yes I ate some over the 2 celebration days of Christmas, but I'm back on track again. I'm waiting for my daughter who has a hungry husband and 2 children, to collect pretty much all the high carb Christmas goodies left here.
And Yes I do talk about low carbing, because I have found it to be a low risk way of managing bg, which MUST work for anyone with a basically normal human physiology

the "like" button wasnt enough, LIKE LIKE LIKE

 

[mrman]

If it works for you great,

would disagree that if you eat carbs, take medication to control spikes maintain good control, have regular exercise then its wrong.
Just cause it works for you does not mean its the only way which is how it is coming across.

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[Andy12345]

unfortunatly there is not A way

i try really hard not to bang on about low carbing, its hard not to as i believe in it so much, i think people that do "bang" on about it are only doing so because they want to help other people do what has worked for them and the same applies to everyone elses methods so i reckon people should treat low carbing evangelists as people trying to help them, not trying to endulge themselves. as for the OPs doctor not agreeing with it, pffft so what? i have heard of good hcp's but am yet to meet one

 

[tonyS54]

"For some a lchf diet might be a good way to control T2 but for the vast majority it is unsustainable in the long term and also when you restrict carbohydrates to the extreme ie under 40g or 50g a day you run the risk of becoming more sensitive to carbs which is obviously not a good thing as those carbs that you do eat affect you much faster and much more."

I don't find the LCHF diet unsustainable in the least and the longer I've been on it the easier it gets , as for being more sensitive to carbs I don't believe that to be true a slice of burgen still gives me a similar spike to four years ago.

 

[Sid Bonkers]

i think people that do "bang" on about it are only doing so because they want to help other people do what has worked for them and the same applies to everyone elses methods

Oh if only that were true Andy, the problem is that many of those who "bang on" about low carbs are not able to loose or maintain weight loss and many have also increased their meds so it just makes me smile when they continue to beat the low carb drum. They talk the talk but many dont actually walk the walk

As to your other point "the same applies to everyone elses methods" who other than low carbers "bang on" about their diets? I certainly dont and in fact I rarely even talk about diet now as I am fed up to the back teeth with all the arguments and even aggressive comments made by certain members towards those who dont low carb, I am convinced that the evangelical low carbers only do so to try to convince themselves because theyre not kidding me or anyone else either I suspect.

I certainly dont feel the need to defend my lifestyle to anyone, it works for me and many others (the silent majority) so I really dont care what others think. I would not have mentioned it today other than the OP asked a question specifically of those who dont low carb.

There are many ways to control T2 diabetes and anyone who says otherwise is suffering from tunnel vision.

 

[Mongoose39uk]

And once again the OP asks about alternatives and those managing quite well thank you are shouted down and told they are only "mild" diabetics.

Well no we are not all "MILD" some of us were quite the opposite.

A lot of expletives deleted.

 

[noblehead]

I don't technically low-carb although I do eat below the RDA, currently eating between 150-180g a day..... but admittedly eaten much more over the Christmas period.

Being a type 1 using insulin and adjusting insulin to the food I eat makes it much easier to be flexible with food than someone who is type 2 controlling their diabetes through D & E or minimal meds, however I believe no matter how you control your diabetes or what type you are it's important to control portion sizes when it comes to carbs.

It's all about finding a balance, exercise, carb control, foods lower on the glycemic index are all useful tools in diabetes management as is reading and learning from experience, I personally wouldn't want to restrict carbs any more than I needed and all my recent diabetes checks have all come back fine therefore I'll continue as I am.

As we say many times on the forum, we are all different and and it's all about finding what works for the individual!