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Thoughts of Luna

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by luna50, Jun 23, 2019.

  1. luna50

    luna50 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    There was an old person of Dean,
    Who dined on one pea, and one bean;
    For he said, 'More than that,
    Would make me too fat,'
    That cautious old person of Dean.

    If You use metformin then you have DM T2 and not DM T1.

    This Forum is dominated with postulations for curative treatment of Diabetes Type 2 by “Low carbo method”. For that I can say: Latin “ Quot homines tot sententiae”

    Diabetes T2 is not represented by every person on the same way.

    LC method is effective by the persons on prediabetic and the persons on the beginning for DM T2.

    The treatment for these persons is with diet, exercise, Metformin and Sulphonylureas drugs.

    The DM T2 treatment with Insulin and metformin can be difficult to control it effective.

    The problem is the missing knowledge by the persons who have DM T2 and the useless explanation from the medical staff. NO one of this medical person explain exactly how to control the illness. All explanations are very superficially. Most people think if they take insulin, then all problems with DM T2 are away.

    The intake of exogen insulin depend of the grade of insulin resistance.

    I can tell You about my way how I control my DM T2.

    I have very high insulin resistance. I take on the morning 15 IE- Insulin Tresiba (degludec), the best insulin on the marked, and 4 IE – insulin Novo Rapid and 1.5 g Metformin. My BG on the morning is from 4.0 to 5.0 mmol/L.

    On the morning I eat 2 egg and one bread with butter and honey. (Ordinary office job)

    On 12.00 my BG is 4.00 mmol/l and I eat a moderate meal (I eat what I like to eat, no diet meals and no LC- meals). After 1.5 hour I measure my BG. Normally the BG is about 10 mmol/l. After that I take my Electrical Bicycle and drive about 10 to 15 kilometers. (You can RUN if you prefer that) All that take about 0.5 hour. My BG after that is only 4.5 mmol/l. By 18.00 hour I eat normal meal and do not make exercise. On the morning my BG is 4.5 – 5.0 mmol/l.

    If You control your BG only with insulin, without exercise, then you must take more insulin and the carbs will not be catabolized but they will be deposit in your adipose tissues. It will be difficult to control your weight.

    If You are an obese person, then You can use Insulin Tresiba (degludec) mixed with Victoza. You will have 100% positive results for los of weight. Your “doctor” must be involved in that.

    For all this the start point is to find what is your BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate).

    You body use 24 Cal / kg weight and if you like to have a weight of 60 Kg, then you can multiplicate 24 x 60 = 1440 Cal / day. The composition of This daily energy of 1440 Cal is: 50% must be from carbs, 30 % from fat ad 20 % from protein.

    The carbs and the proteins have 4 Cal / gram and the fat has 9 Cal/gram.

    You MUST eat carbs because your body need the energy molecule ATP (Adenosine Triphosphate).

    This energy molecules are used by every biochemical process in your body.

    You can read on the English Wikipedia about ATP and Metformin. It is very important to understand how this molecule works in your body.

    Ask me for all what you wish and you will get always a true answer.
     
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  2. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    This is factually incorrect. The liver can endogenously manufacture all of the body’s glucose requirements. Additionally, mitochondria can also use ketone bodies as well as glucose to synthesise ATP.
     
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  3. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Expert

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    sorry but no, not correct. There have been several T1's on here who take metformin for many years.
     
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  4. luna50

    luna50 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Is incorrect that Your body need ATP for all biochemical process?

    The hepar (Liver) do not generate ATP, but mitochondrial process produces ATP in the respiratory chain.

    It is not possible to write on the little place all about this very complicated problem.

    You can correct me for all wrong spelled words and sentence syntax. IT IS OK from me.

    Thank You
     
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  5. luna50

    luna50 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Mitochondria do not use ketone bodies, but mitochondria produce ketone bodies if your body catabolizes FAT, because you do not have glucose.

    The risk by DM T1 is the person can get KETOACIDOSE and the consequence of that is DED.
     
  6. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    No. It’s just incorrect that you need to consume exogenous carbohydrate in order for any of this complex process to take place. The liver does not need to manufacture ATP. ATP is made inside the cell from glucose or ketones passing through the cell membrane. The body will normally maintain glucose homeostasis within a very narrow corridor, irrespective of whether or not the individual consumes glucose. Therefore the rationale that one must consume carbohydrate in order to supply ATP is erroneous. One can of course choose to consume it if they wish, but that is another matter.
     
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  7. WuTwo

    WuTwo Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    There is a difference between diabetic ketoacidosis (which a T1 with very high glucose could end up with) and ketosis .... where as @Jim Lahey says, the ketones aids in the process of creating ATP in the body where carbs are not consumed.

    https://www.diabetes.co.uk/blood-glucose/ketosis.html

    Is ketosis the same as ketoacidosis?

    Nutritional ketosis occurs when there is not enough carbohydrate in the diet to meet the body’s energy requirements. In this situation, the body switches over from burning sugar to burning fat as its main fuel.

    Fat, whether from the diet or the body’s stores, is broken down into ketones in the liver. These ketones are an efficient energy source for many organs, particularly the brain.

    Everyone has ketones in their blood at very low levels, under normal conditions. When the body enters ketosis, and so switches to burning mostly fat, levels of ketones in the blood increase.
     
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  8. luna50

    luna50 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    To Jim Lahey

    Thank for your answer on my contribution

    You write something right and something wrong.

    By DM T2 the insulin function is impaired.

    By non-diabetics the hormones insulin and glucagon work like in the warming system in your home.

    When there is lot of glucose in your blood vessels then glucagon goes low.

    When the glucose falls to about 4 mmol/l the glucagon goes high and insulin low.

    All this is by the people who do not have DM T2.

    By DM T2 this function is impaired. The person has insulin resistance and the sells can not use the glucose. The process is very slow. If the person takes exogen insulin the problem is the same.

    Insulin “collect “glucose in the liver as glycogen and glucagon release the glucose from the glycogen and the liver moreover make GLUCONEOGENESE, i.e. it takes some amino acids from the skeletal muscle and convert them to glucose. Moreover the process fatty acid oxidation and ketone body production in the liver will be very active if the person has deficiency for glucose. The lipolyze process is activated and there happen to much unwonted processes that are non-healthy for the person.

    To stop this process diabetic person on the beginning get Metformin. Metformin has a lot of functions. It is not necessary to write about that but you can read on English Wikipedia about metformin.

    The catabolism of the nutrients happens in the KREBS cycle in the mitochondria.

    Mitochondria do not use ketone bodies but Pyruvate. The ketone bodies are as substrate for the pyruvate process.

    As You say, all this is very complicated Biochemical process that involve a lot of enzymes.

    You can ask your doctor for the reliability for all I am writing to you.

    This is a very SHORT explanation of the process.

     
  9. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Hi @luna50
    You write very authoritatively yet seem a bit misinformed on a number of topics.
    Why would the liver take amino acids from protein (usually ingested rather than catabolise that already in the body) when there is already an excess of glucose? This is now thought to be a demand driven process rather than as you describe.
    The best way to stop excess glucose build up is to stop eating it completely maybe allied with some fasting.
    That is why those in the ViRTA study can come off most if not all of their T2 medication through eating a ketogenic (ultra low carb) diet. Maybe you need to do a bit more up to date research.
    Very similar results are those seen in a carnivorous way of eating too.
    May I be so bold as to ask you to provide with some of your recent figures that show your levels of control and also what medication you are currently taking to achieve those levels of control.
    It is quite interesting that you believe that you have the "solution" and that the rest of us appear to be well on "the way to suicide"by following the approaches we have taken (mainly through self education).
    Oh and please no latin.. my grade B at O Level is a dim and distant memory.
     
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    #9 bulkbiker, Jun 26, 2019 at 9:15 AM
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
  10. LooperCat

    LooperCat Type 1 · Expert

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    Not so. Diabetic ketoacidosis happens in the presence of three factors - extremely high blood glucose, total lack of insulin and dehydration. Ketosis is the burning of fat for fuel. One does not lead to the other.
     
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  11. Robinredbreast

    Robinredbreast Type 1 · Oracle

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    I had keto's( Ketoacidosis, @30* when admitted to hospital and my little grandddaughter, at 2 1/2 years old, was in hospital on HDU ward with life threatening ketoacidosis, the two may sound similar, but they are not the same as @Mel dCP has posted, therefore different.
     
  12. Robinredbreast

    Robinredbreast Type 1 · Oracle

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    Luna50, what is DED, do you mean dead, as in passed away, died ? and if so, you are wrong, as many of us have landed in hospital very, very ill and lived to tell the tale, I am alive and so is my granddaughter, thanks to Insulin.
     
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  13. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Regardless of all of this, if all humans absolutely require dietary carbohydrate in order to survive, then I should be dead. Instead I am thriving, my very serious insulin resistance and advanced type 2 diabetes has vanished, along with all its already established complications, without medication. That’s all I need to know for now :D
     
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  14. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    I'm not bad at Latin - the quotes are partial ones, and being incomplete the meaning is - let us say subject to misinterpretation, which I find rather revealing of the outlook of the person quoting them. We do need to study the bigger picture, for better understanding.
     
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  15. luna50

    luna50 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    To Mel dCP
    Very simply explained, Ketoacidosis mean Your blood has to much acid from the ketone.

    The human blood has property as buffer. But there is a limit how much acid can accumulate in the blood.

    Ketoacidosis is a condition where in the blood is much more acid then the buffer can accumulate. The consequences of that are fatale and the person die of this acid.
     
  16. luna50

    luna50 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    DCUKMOD. Thank you for your comment

    The link is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basal_metabolic_rate

    The 24 Cal / Kg weight is a THUMB RULE and it is by REST. You must all day stay in the bed and do nothing.

    It is an ease way to lose weight.

    You can find this in: “PRINCIPLES OF MEDICAL BIOCHEMISTRY” on page nr.: 552!

    By: Gerhard Meisenberg and William H. Simmons, 2nd. Edition.

    You eat 2500 Cal and it is about twice of Your BMR.

    If You have a physical activity then You must eat more.
     
  17. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    Hello @luna50 We have had this discussion many times with you in the past year or so. I remember that at the time I established that you were using a very old endocrinology text book for your information. The info you hold dear has in many ways been disproven and superceded by more recent scientific research, and we have moved on from those times.
     
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  18. Robinredbreast

    Robinredbreast Type 1 · Oracle

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    Are you serious ? because I will say this again, ketoacidosis does not have to be a fatality, as I can vouch for that and my granddaughter too. Any comments on that !! Or maybe you like to set the cat amongst the pigeons then stand by and watch the outcome........................ ! Possibly trolling
     
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  19. britishpub

    britishpub Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    @luna50 can you define what you mean by “short period of time”

    I’m only checking as I want to make sure I haven’t been “Ded” for the last few years.
     
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  20. LooperCat

    LooperCat Type 1 · Expert

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    I know exactly what it is, as an ex research biochemist, science teacher, trainee medic and a type one of 20 years who has suffered from it (and survived) twice in the past - due to having the three necessary requirements for DKA - namely extreme hyperglycaemia, no insulin and severe dehydration. I have eaten a very low carb, ketogenic diet for over 18 months now, and I’m still not dead. Sorry about that.
     
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