thoughts on animal versus analogue versus synthetic human

[megan]

something that has been discussed..... have had some good chats with IDDT....lovely people....

but wanted to see what others thought

i was on glargine one dose a day and for a while it did make a difference.....but it didn't last as long as my dr's insisted. then i was switched to levemir....same thing happened.....i left my dr and then split the dose myself....helped a bit..

then last year switched to bovine hypurin isophane and kept it as a split dose too.

felt an improvement in the first month that i couldn't explain but it was just there. have been on it ever since.....control not great but improving a bit at the moment which could be down to my new antidepressent for multiply reasons.

but my novo is very slow to work ....can do nothing for up to an hour before making any kind of impact...i have tried this when i have had high sugars.......and not actually eaten anything yet.

would like to try a novo alternative.....but dr is not having any of it...will work on it but wondering what best to do and would like to see others experiences of this......have had a couple of really helpful people on this subject before....any thoughts
:?:

 

[iHs]

Re: thoughts on animal versus analogue versus synthetic huma

For getting bg levels down fairly fast, you won't beat Apidra. Apidra starts to make a difference within 15-30mins of it being injected. So that's why people inject it just before or after they eat. It's great for high carb meals and also great for people who experience a lot of hypos as Apidra's action is much shorter than the other bolus insulins. It's not quite 'in and out' but is the closest we've got in the UK at the moment. Novorapid's name is very misleading as there is nothing rapid about it at all but I'm not sure if bovine neutral insulin will work any better than Novo as that too has a delayed onset.

From reading your other message posted the other day you've said that you are overweight. I think what your doctors want you to do is lose weight and by doing so, you will not need to inject so much insulin. However, it's far more important that at the present you inject enough insulin to lower your bg levels regardless of the weight issue insulin and carbohydrate causes and then tackle lowering your weight when your bg levels stabilise by eating less carb and doing some walking every day.

 

[donnellysdogs]

Re: thoughts on animal versus analogue versus synthetic huma

I have never been offered any other insulin than 'human', I would have loved to have tried prok or beef, but I too, always got refused.

I wish I could try it to just find out if my pains decreased even remotely, but haven't been successful. Now on a pump which was the only way that was recommended to get rid of the huge highs I had in the morning 1 hour after getting up, and of course the lows too. Pump sorted out my high's and majority of lows. However, I would just still have been offered the opportunity to have seen whether any f my pains would have diminished. For me on the pump if I do get a high, then besides doing a correction dose, I do put my pump to work extra with the basal rates and bringin me down faster.

What I would actually like to know as well from your posting is whether there is any real benefit to bringing down the levels faster, or should we put up with them coming down in their own time-so long as they are coming down. Pumping Insulin book says that levels should be aimed at in bringing levels down to normal I think within 5 hours....besides the risk of running in to hypo land, just how long do other people think is reasonable to get themselves in to reasonable figures after a high reading...are we actually expecting too much??? On a pump we are lucky that we can adjust an hourly rate of basal (as it is all novorapid anyway) to help in addition if wanted to, but of course on MDI you can't do that....

I look forward to reading any replies that you get.

 

[megan]

Re: thoughts on animal versus analogue versus synthetic huma

For getting bg levels down fairly fast, you won't beat Apidra. Apidra starts to make a difference within 15-30mins of it being injected. So that's why people inject it just before or after they eat. It's great for high carb meals and also great for people who experience a lot of hypos as Apidra's action is much shorter than the other bolus insulins. It's not quite 'in and out' but is the closest we've got in the UK at the moment. Novorapid's name is very misleading as there is nothing rapid about it at all but I'm not sure if bovine neutral insulin will work any better than Novo as that too has a delayed onset.

From reading your other message posted the other day you've said that you are overweight. I think what your doctors want you to do is lose weight and by doing so, you will not need to inject so much insulin. However, it's far more important that at the present you inject enough insulin to lower your bg levels regardless of the weight issue insulin and carbohydrate causes and then tackle lowering your weight when your bg levels stabilise by eating less carb and doing some walking every day.

y t
its a tough one this as i was on about 55 units of insulin a few years back and trying to control the sugars was really hard...i then had my children and during the pregnancies the blood sugar control was great all the time.....with very little effort.....my insulin levels did not go too high either.

i am on between 65 and 85 units a day total now...i have gained weight over the last few years despite being on the recommended amount of insulin for my height etc as worked out by the diabetes team.....

i have always been pretty active....but when i try to up the exercise i get higher sugars.(i know not to exercise on these highs)......i have tried all sorts to change the regimes to try to counter balance this and i just end up getting poorly.

i have asked repeatedly for help and advice with this and to no avail....my team never even told me about the dangers of exercising on high sugars.....

they have told me very little

and so jan of this year i joined a gym and pilates later to help.....i was so dissapointed when this didn't work out....i got high sugars and couldn't get them down...i got pains that got worse...io felt dreadful.

now my gp thinks i have fubromyalgia...whether i do or not...i still want to be able to exercise...feel better and eventually lose that weight....to put the weight issue behind me for the time being is not some thing i have been comfortable with....but i have to for my own sanity......i am 5ft6" and 14 1/2 stone......no i am not pleased with this at all.......but i don't know what else to do......i have gone on lower carb diets before and it has had various unpleasant and detremental effects.....and still no help on lowering the blood sugars.

so perhaps a change of quick acting? and be patient for these new antidepressents to kick in...i have achieved a bit more physically recently......every little positive eh.....

 

[megan]

Re: thoughts on animal versus analogue versus synthetic huma

I have never been offered any other insulin than 'human', I would have loved to have tried prok or beef, but I too, always got refused.

I wish I could try it to just find out if my pains decreased even remotely, but haven't been successful. Now on a pump which was the only way that was recommended to get rid of the huge highs I had in the morning 1 hour after getting up, and of course the lows too. Pump sorted out my high's and majority of lows. However, I would just still have been offered the opportunity to have seen whether any f my pains would have diminished. For me on the pump if I do get a high, then besides doing a correction dose, I do put my pump to work extra with the basal rates and bringin me down faster.

What I would actually like to know as well from your posting is whether there is any real benefit to bringing down the levels faster, or should we put up with them coming down in their own time-so long as they are coming down. Pumping Insulin book says that levels should be aimed at in bringing levels down to normal I think within 5 hours....besides the risk of running in to hypo land, just how long do other people think is reasonable to get themselves in to reasonable figures after a high reading...are we actually expecting too much??? On a pump we are lucky that we can adjust an hourly rate of basal (as it is all novorapid anyway) to help in addition if wanted to, but of course on MDI you can't do that....

I look forward to reading any replies that you get.

yes i would like to know what is a reasonable time to expect a high to come back down to normal? perhaps i'll pop this up under a new topic......see what others think too...

i am not on the pump bit MDI....like yesterday for example...but only now as my sugars have been responding to my insulin a bit more......i found that yes i did have quite a bit of carb...and i did have afternoon tea included in this....i knew the sugars were high but did not correct as i had done this at lunch time and knew that i had to take into account the insulin stacking.
and so after the last time i ate last evening i counted on the hours and guessed on evidence that i could get a hopefully more normal sugar sometime between 10pm and midnight......
i got a normal one at 10.20pm......

it would be nice if the insulin did just tick over and kept things at a constant good level.....but the fact that my sugars are responding to the insulin at all at the moment is a monumental thing!

i had a blood of 5 and had a few strawberries in some dry white wine (as kindly presented to me by my hubby)....then at midnight when i went to bed my blood was 7.....

i understood this and went to sleep...then at 7.30 this morning it was 14.9.....i had no reason for this that i could see except of course any elevated heart beat or possibly a small amount of swollen gums i have at the mo......

at 10 am this morning my blood 14.....no rise......it may be 14 but there is no rise....so perhaps the correctional will work by lunch time.....i am going to the dr for something else unrelated and so whose to say how that will effect it... :|

 

[Snodger]

Re: thoughts on animal versus analogue versus synthetic huma

For getting bg levels down fairly fast, you won't beat Apidra. Apidra starts to make a difference within 15-30mins of it being injected.

do you (or anyone) know how this compares with humalog? seeems similar timescales but I wondered if you'd tried both and could say from experience?

 

[cugila]

Re: thoughts on animal versus analogue versus synthetic huma

For information regarding various Insulin profiles see here..........

http://www.mims.co.uk/Tables/882439/Ins ... parations/

 

[Snodger]

Re: thoughts on animal versus analogue versus synthetic huma

thanks cugila - am going to bookmark that site, I found it a while ago and then couldn't find it again. The insulin manufacturers all seem to put that kind of length-of-action info in the hardest-to-reach places.
I still am interested though in people's personal experiences, if anyone's tried both.

 

[iHs]

Re: thoughts on animal versus analogue versus synthetic huma

For getting bg levels down fairly fast, you won't beat Apidra. Apidra starts to make a difference within 15-30mins of it being injected.

do you (or anyone) know how this compares with humalog? seeems similar timescales but I wondered if you'd tried both and could say from experience?

Hi

I have used Humalog and Apidra and although there is not too much difference between them, Apidra does have the edge on Humalog. I once went to eat a large 50g carb meal (for me) and had a bg level of 7mmol. I injected my bolus of Apidra 15mins before the meal but within that 15mins, my bolus took me down to hypoland before I sat down to eat the meal. So you see how fast Apidra can act. After that incident I always injected Apidra after my meal.

 

[Snodger]

Re: thoughts on animal versus analogue versus synthetic huma

Thanks iHS - that's impressive. Might ask doc about trying it.

 

[megan]

Re: thoughts on animal versus analogue versus synthetic huma

i like the idea of this kind of reaction time too