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Told by medical professional that keto is dangerous!

Discussion in 'Ketogenic diet forum' started by luceeloo, Mar 6, 2019.

  1. luceeloo

    luceeloo Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It's been a long time since I posted. I've been busy sorting my life, and the lives of my nearest and dearest out... but that's another story for another day.
    In my absence from this forum I had an appointment with my Consultant. As usual she was rude, condescending, and talked to me like a big fat sugar-gorging child. I decided to do something about it and I found Dr Jason Fung's books - I devoured them. The Diabetes Code changed me. It made sense, it explained everything in ways that made me understand why I was piling on the weight whilst injecting huge quantities of insulin, and why my blood sugar was sluggish in responding. Right after reading it I started proper Keto, along with intermittent fasting. Not the lazy low carb approach I've taken for years... measured, weighed, recorded keto. It's been four weeks and today I had an appointment with the Diabetes Sister at the hospital (I've been put on detention for being a big fat sugar-gorging child, and I now have to see her once a month). First off, the HCA took my urine sample, dipsticked it and sent me on my way. Then she came to find me with a paper cup of water telling me to drink it because I had ketones. I explained that it's my diet, she looked blankly and left me to it.
    The Sister acted as if I was the first person ever to mention any form of low carb approach to her. She looked at my weight - down 1 stone in 4 weeks, then my hba1c (74 four weeks ago, 64 now), and declared that I'm doing all of this too quickly.
    She demanded that I start eating healthy carbs and follow a low-calorie diet instead. Then she instructed me to go to the hospital cafe, purchase something carby, eat it, and return for a urine dip and a ketone test. I told her it wasn't possible (it was, but I wasn't doing it!), and she instead did a ketone test (2.2 - I'm chuffed) and told me that if it had been 3 then she'd have to hospitalise me. FFS! Dodged that bullet, high tailed it out of the hospital with lots of nodding and agreeing to eat more bananas and porridge. She did send me home with a ketone meter and some strips though... very useful!
    Four weeks and four days until the next appointment, and I'm contemplating nudging myself out of nutritional ketosis the day before and pretending like I've been a good low-calorie low-fat lady.
    This inflexible approach of the NHS frustrates me. I'm a person with my own brain, and they don't seem to realise that I don't pay rent on this body that I'm in, I own it outright.
     
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  2. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    :banghead:
     
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  3. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · BANNED

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    Interesting story. I am seeing my GP on Friday for review. I am hoping and praying that he is an LCHF convert.
     
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    #3 Listlad, Mar 6, 2019 at 10:25 PM
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
  4. Caeseji

    Caeseji Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Oyyyyyyyy they really do make me want to cry with how they cannot see how obviously it's helping you. Always waggling the finger like we have no idea what the condition is.
     
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  5. luceeloo

    luceeloo Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Fingers crossed! I don't think that all of the NHS can be so archaic.
     
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  6. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    I have said this before. People have to take more care with testing bg and ketones when changing their diet when the object is to reduce medications/insulin, however in all my reading and viewing of lectures on Type 2 Diabetes the only time that Keto could be considered dangerous is if the person is taking SGLT2 inhibitors.
    This class of drug has a heightened risk of DKA alone so embarking on a ketogenic way of eating obviously raises that risk further but the diet itself promotes nutritional ketosis which some HCPs simply do not care to fully investigate.
     
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  7. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    So she did not check your glucose level?
    Good thing you don't have some sort of problem dealing with glucose - isn't it? :banghead:
     
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  8. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    What complete and utter b***ocks ..... so sorry you had to go though that . Obviously they know nothing of ketosis and aregetting confused with ketoacidosis.. but you have done so well... great results well done!
     
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  9. Tophat1900

    Tophat1900 Type 3c · Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to hear you're dealing with a few who don't know any better....

    CONGRATS, on your progress. That's the good news here, well done!

    Edited by mod to remove demeaning terms
     
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    #9 Tophat1900, Mar 7, 2019 at 1:20 AM
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 8, 2019
  10. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Do continue to monitor your glucose levels closely just to be sure that you don't end up with high glucose AND ketones.

    Also if you are on SGLT2 inhibitors you have to be watchful of euglycemic ketoacidosis.

    That said, I believe you are making very good progress if you have been off all medication and is on diet control only.
     
  11. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

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    As long as it works for you. My blood results were fantastic on low carb/high protein. Fatty liver looked like it was gone. Once I stopped low carb my liver enzymes raised again.
    800cals causes me higher bgs and thrush. Weight loss though.
     
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  12. ringi

    ringi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    As you are under hospital care I think you should ask to see the consultant. (I would love to see what the consultant told the nurce after that)
     
  13. Lord Midas

    Lord Midas Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Please don't do this. Do what is right and remain in ketosis. You've taken your diabetes and your health into your own hands and the results speak for themselves.

    They are simply there to advise, and clearly their advice isn't great. I told my consultant, when he tries to get me in Statins, to never bring up the subject again. And I will NEVER taken them.

    Your body, your decisions.
     
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    #13 Lord Midas, Mar 8, 2019 at 12:04 PM
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
  14. Lord Midas

    Lord Midas Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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  15. luceeloo

    luceeloo Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks - I used to be on Canagliflozin, but that was stopped about six months ago. I was just on insulin when I started the diet. This nurse had no idea that nutritional ketosis could even exist, and I find that quite scary. I know a few low carbing type 2's - a couple of older ladies I work with. They know about low carb, but I doubt that they'd know about nutritional ketosis... so if they presented for an appointment after a few days of being stricter with their diet, would they be rushed in and treated for impending DKA ?
     
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  16. luceeloo

    luceeloo Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I think you are right. I'm just going to have to put my big girl pants on and not be bullied by them. Might take my husband or sister in law along for some moral support as they both are my biggest cheerleaders at the moment.
     
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  17. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    They wouldn't be treated for DKA if they didn't present with it. A blood ketone meter would, I hope, be used and as I said the heightened risk is with this class of drug. Other Diabetes meds work differently.
     
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  18. Stefans

    Stefans Type 1 · Active Member

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    This is the hardest with doing things that are not 'normal', been there, done that.
    The way I have handled it, is by knowing more than my doctor, being able to argue with them and believing that I'm right and they are wrong.
    If you believe in all of us here, then just stay strong. (she is wrong!!! :))

    So for you, in this case, I found the place that she is referring to about the 'over 3 mmol/L'.
    See https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/diabetic-ketoacidosis/


    Check your blood sugar and ketone levels
    Check your blood sugar level if you have symptoms of DKA.

    If your blood sugar is 11mmol/L or over and you have a blood or urine ketone testing kit, check your ketone level.

    If you do a blood ketone test:
    • lower than 0.6mmol/L is a normal reading
    • 0.6 to 1.5mmol/L means you're at a slightly increased risk of DKA and should test again in a couple of hours
    • 1.6 to 2.9mmol/L means you're at an increased risk of DKA and should contact your diabetes team or GP as soon as possible
    • 3mmol/L or over means you have a very high risk of DKA and should get medical help immediately
    If you do a urine ketone test, a result of more than 2+ means there's a high chance you have DKA.

    My bold and underlining.

    So your nurse is 'correct' that uk standard says you should get medical help immediately .... BUT she forgot one thing, read the first part where it states.
    If your blood sugar is 11mmol/L or over.
    Since yours should be way below that, the >3 does not apply.
    Teach her that DKS is diagnosed by blood ph, NOT by ketone level.
    Teach her that you cant have low blood sugar and DKA at the same time.
    Teach her that it is the lack of insulin that gives you DKA. NOT the lack of carbs.

    Stay strong, don't eat bad things just to avoid a fight with your nurse!
    You are doing great, keep the good work up! Bring your husband/sister, whatever don't give in to bad advice!

    I had a similar fight many years ago when I started LCHF/keto and I had to try to teach my doctor that statins where bad, I refused to take them, I explained big vs small oxidised LDL to her. She did not buy it, we argued, I did not take the statins, I have no respect for her.
     
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  19. luceeloo

    luceeloo Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for that - it's very interesting and clearly where she's pulling her info from.
    One of the biggest things I'm learning with this is to trust my body. It does actually know what it's doing when fed right! No matter how qualified a medical professional is, they don't live with this disease. They may be professionals, but those of us who live with this for years... we are the experts.
    Yesterday my bloods were a bit wonky for no apparent reason - no change in diet, but woke up yesterday morning at 8mmol - not been that for a while. It continued like that throughout the day, so I kept hydrated, and I stayed on plan. Last thing last night I started to develop a cold, which has kicked in fast overnight and may possibly be a mild sinus infection too. My blood sugars on waking this morning were 9.9mmol. Being cautious, I tested my Ketones, and they have dropped to 1.1. The clever old system has been doing some underhand gluconeogenesis hasn't it? It's kicked out some glucose to fight the monsters, thus dropping my ketones. It's the first time in 6 years I've noticed something like this, because until now my bloods have always been erratic anyway so I never experienced the "sick high" that others see.
    No fasting for me today, I've shared a little plate of cheese cubes and chicken with the dog. Also had 3 units of Novorapid, because sense tells me that at times like this I still need the insulin for extra support.
     
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  20. Stefans

    Stefans Type 1 · Active Member

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    So true!!!!
     
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