1. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2021 »
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Guest, stay home, stay safe, save the NHS. Stay up to date with information about keeping yourself and people around you safe here and GOV.UK: Coronavirus (COVID-19). Think you have symptoms? NHS 111 service is available here.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

Trendy ketones supplement

Discussion in 'Ask A Question' started by Sprocket 2, Aug 1, 2020.

  1. Sprocket 2

    Sprocket 2 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    68
    Trophy Points:
    58
    hi

    So at hairdressers today she was banging on about how great this product was that she was taking and how it had helped her lose her tummy bulge. She basically then described a keto lifestyle of no more than 20g carbs a day with this stuff added in "to speed everything up"

    Having been a bit slack over lockdown I was nearly tempted (price is ridiculous) and told her if she just did the keto without the supplement I thought she would probably get the same result but she was adamant no.

    Has anyone tried them? I wont be as cant find any impartial research but cant help be curious. Who wouldnt love a magic fix!
     
  2. xfieldok

    xfieldok Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,011
    Likes Received:
    2,581
    Trophy Points:
    178
    There is a magic fix. It's called keto and it's free.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. Sprocket 2

    Sprocket 2 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    68
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Yep totally agree. Sad that she's shelled out so much money though
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. TeddyTottie

    TeddyTottie Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    278
    Likes Received:
    176
    Trophy Points:
    103
    So, my (probably flawed) understanding is that a low carb intake triggers the body to start breaking down fat into ketones to fuel metabolic processes, rather than using glucose, and giving us all the assorted benefits of that from low blood sugar to weight loss etc etc.

    Logically then, adding in ketones would mean that your body wouldn’t need to do as much fat breakdown and the benefits would not accrue. Surely it’s counterproductive and entirely unnecessary?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Sprocket 2

    Sprocket 2 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    68
    Trophy Points:
    58
    But they have "celebrities" endorsing it so it must be true! Will admit part of me wanted to believe the hype even though I knew it was rubbish. Perils of being trapped in a plastic apron staring at yourself in a mirror for an hour
     
  6. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

    Messages:
    17,640
    Likes Received:
    11,877
    Trophy Points:
    298
    What is it?
    The infamous "raspberry ketones" scam or something else?
     
  7. ert

    ert Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,972
    Likes Received:
    2,607
    Trophy Points:
    198
    People often refer to the side effects of the keto diet as the “keto flu.” Those beginning this diet may experience: headaches, fatigue, trouble sleeping, problems with concentration, nausea, dizziness, stomach cramps or aches.
    Certain supplements, such as electrolytes -magnesium, potassium, chloride, phosphorus, and sodium, digestive enzymes, and L-theanine, may help minimize these symptoms. Maybe that's what she was talking about.
     
  8. Sprocket 2

    Sprocket 2 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    68
    Trophy Points:
    58
    I wasn't sure I should mention what it was on here. Begins with P and callum best promotes it
     
  9. Sprocket 2

    Sprocket 2 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    68
    Trophy Points:
    58
    She was adamant she was drinking keytones..and had added water and extra salt to her diet to counteract the flu side effects
     
  10. ert

    ert Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,972
    Likes Received:
    2,607
    Trophy Points:
    198
    The water and salt help with the keto flu. Exogenous Ketones appear to be a keto diet supplement also. Item number 6. Not that I've heard of it before.

    https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/best-keto-supplements#section6
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Sprocket 2

    Sprocket 2 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    68
    Trophy Points:
    58
  12. Sprocket 2

    Sprocket 2 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    68
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Interesting link thanks. That definitely sounds like what she's taking. No proper research of the risks though which is scary. She was saying boxers drink it. Anything with keto in the title seems to be taking off at the moment. Probably because it works! I never heard of it before my diagnosis and although I am a low carb convert and it got me into remission I haven't dipped into proper hardcore keto yet.
     
  13. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

    Messages:
    17,640
    Likes Received:
    11,877
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Luckily I'd never heard of him although the name of the product now sounds familiar.
    As most who indulge in ketogenic eating know exogenous ketones lead to very expensive wee.
    If you aren't in ketosis then your body won't use them and they'll be excreted. Except in very specific cases (like treating people with dementia and Alzheimers) they aren't recommended and at that price! I'll just carry on making my own for free.

    Edit to add if she's already in ketosis by eating fewer than 20g of carbs per day then it becomes even more expensive wee.. still her pee sticks will be a lovely purple colour!
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  14. MrsA2

    MrsA2 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,577
    Likes Received:
    2,024
    Trophy Points:
    198
    isnt Callum Best son of the more famous George?
    (Sorry for off track .
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. LaoDan

    LaoDan Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    568
    Likes Received:
    396
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Could the same be said with MCT oil? Or an obese person eating fat in general? I’ve considered trying MCT, just haven’t
     
  16. Tophat1900

    Tophat1900 Type 3c · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,394
    Likes Received:
    1,348
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Keto only costs me what it costs in food at the supermarket.... I wouldn't waste money on a ketone supplement. It makes no sense to me.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  17. Robbity

    Robbity Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    6,312
    Likes Received:
    16,103
    Trophy Points:
    198
    My magic fix was simply cutting right down on carbs for a while - it works a treat, and as @Tophat1900 says didn't cost me a penny extra...

    When I first starting aiming for ketosis I wondered why my Ketostix weren't that lovely purple, until I understood I was actually using those ketones instead of wastefully weeing them out.:oops:
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  18. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,687
    Likes Received:
    3,309
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Wee-stix are not as useful to show diet effectiveness. A bgl meter that reads ketones is a better indication of a ketotic state since it monitors what is in the bloodstream rather than being in excess wee. Also the stix are not very sensitive, and a purple colour may just be excess diet ketones, but could also be an indication of other health problems such as approaching DKA. You would not be able to tell from stix alone, but with a meter they suggest any reading above 4 mmol is possible cause for concern, although DKA is usually much higher (10+).. But I note that the NHS advice is that any reading above 3.0 should be treated as DKA and requires immediate medical assistance. I think this difference is to allow for those taking an SGLT-2 inhibitor drug can also register as DKA at the lower bgl levels that can happen.

    This may help (or confuse):
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5734222/
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. TeddyTottie

    TeddyTottie Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    278
    Likes Received:
    176
    Trophy Points:
    103
    You know, I do believe in energy input vs. energy consumption as an overall mechanism affecting body weight, but crucially, within the context of a very low carb diet. Of course, if a person’s metabolic processes are dysfunctional and they have insulin resistance , for example, then there are other factors affecting the normal storage and release of energy which muddies the water.

    So provided one has addressed the carb issue and is dealing with insulin resistance on a daily basis, what else is there to dictate as to whether ones loses/gains/maintains weight? Surely it has to be an excess of fuel. So the net effect would be the delta between the energy I consume as food and the energy my body need to function; if I eat less energy than is required then presumably my body utilises stored fat to make up the deficit.

    However I don’t know the detail of that mechanism and this is just my impression from my research so far. Please let me know if anyone knows that different mechanisms are at play, I would like to understand this, when so many of our friends on this forum are adamant that ‘calories in, calories out’ is a total fallacy. I find it confusing, especially when still others advise to ‘eat more fat’ when a person doesn’t wish to lose weight on LCHF.

    As for supplements, I think you do have to consider them within the framework of your overall diet. Most of them are consumed in very small amounts as compared to the whole of the diet so I expect their impact is fairly negligible.

    The point I was trying to make about ketones is that they are end product, not an ingredient. So by supplying them to the body I would think that one is hijacking the very process that one is trying to enhance. Much like trying to support job creation in a luxury cake factory by buying in the Mr Kipling’s to sell instead ... ;);):cat:
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,687
    Likes Received:
    3,309
    Trophy Points:
    198
    And there was I thinking Raspberry Pi was a computer. Silly Billy, moi.

    To my mind it is quite clear that external ketones do not trigger dietary ketosis since it is blood glucose levels and adrenaline that control it. As pointed out it is the burning of lipid fatty acids that generate ketones as a waste product, and we do not actually burn ketones as fuel. So yes, expensive wee and harder working kidneys to boot.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook