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Type 1: Hubby's levels out of control

jess77

Member
Messages
6
Type of diabetes
Family member
Treatment type
Insulin
Hi
I'm new to the forum so I'll do a brief intro: my husband has type 1 (since age 18. About 20 yrs ago) and seems to be totally out of control of his blood sugars. I may get some of the details wrong but he takes levemir for overnight/morning basal and humalog for his bolus injections. He doesn't take a basal during the day because in the past injecting it twice has caused problems with overlapping effects. He does multiple daily injections, and this is actually many, many correction doses. He has never had brilliant control which we had always put down to problems with stress making his levels go high. Typically he roller coasters throughout the day between about 3 and something often in the 20's. He is up pretty much every night making more adjustments, I would say he is usually high in the night but he can often go low too.

In recent months his levels have got worse and worse. He has recently started the LCHF approach to try and improve things but I'm not sure if things have been worse since then. We cannot understand why after, for example, a lunch of Caesar salad (lettuce, dressing, Parmesan, chicken) his levels will shoot up into the 20s (and stay there for hours). His levels also tend to rocket after breakfast. He calculates his bolus according to the protein content of such a meal. As another example, yesterday he had no lunch at all and yet spent most of the day over 15. It will take hours and hours (I think maybe 6 hours or so yesterday) before they start dropping despite numerous injections. He then worried that he had over injected so then ate too much and spent the night mostly high again (and awake).

You may be wondering why I'm writing this rather than him. He refuses to ask anyone for help, as I think he thinks he needs to sort it out and understand it himself. He is very sceptical of the medical profession being able to offer him anything other than the standard advice so I'm trying to encourage him to access this forum instead, which I've recently discovered. He also, naturally, feels ill, utterly exhausted and miserable all the time - so he has a tendency to avoid thinking about it and just wants to switch off when he is home, either by trying to sleep or by watching something on the TV. He usually does not want to talk about it. He also says we never have time to talk because he thinks we need a decent chunk of time if we are going to talk, not just an hour here or there between dealing with the kids, and daily life etc.

I'm not quite sure what I'm writing for specifically, everything feels totally overwhelming. I obviously worry about his long term health (remarkably he's only had 'borderline retinopathy' flagged up on the past but that's been ok since, or maybe he's not telling me the real story). sometimes it's easier for me to not engage with it because when I do, it is too worrying and upsetting. He gets very irritable with his family. I feel hopeless and helpless. I sometimes make suggestions based on some thing I've read in this forum but I don't think he finds that helpful. He went down the road of getting a pump about a year ago and was approved but then decided against it (he doesn't really like the idea of it permanently attached to him and also thinks that it won't make any difference because the same issues will still be there, it's just a different mechanism for injecting). He has started recently started using the libre so at least we are saving his fingertips from multiple tests.

The things he and I have considered: stress is still a huge problem (he stresses about anything and everything. His work (he is a managing director of a very small company) is a constant source of stress and he always stresses at the weekend eg about getting somewhere in time, how to spend his time most effectively and feeling under pressure from work hanging over versus spending time on his family/on the house). I have wondered whether sometimes his levels go up for another reason and then that makes him feels stressed. He is so sleep deprived it is making him insulin insensitive? Dr Bernstein says something about your gut sensing that you've had a big meal and reacts by dumping glucagon because it thinks your pancreas is about to release a load of insulin? His body is permanently under stress from being so high and he's so tired so that's casing insulin resistance? Dawn phenomenon? Do his basal rates need looking at? Even if we tried to check his basal rate needs by fasting I don't think we'd get anything useful because his levels would shoot up really high anyway. Lack of exercise: he hasn't done any in ages because he feels so rubbish all the time. Should we consider asking the medics to add in metformin (my idea, not his). Should he not eat at all unless his levels are in target range? Is there anything you can do to stop his liver dumping glucagon?

I guess my main questions are:
we assume his levels are sky rocketing despite hardly eating anything because his liver is dumping glucagon either in response to stress or because he is getting no energy from his food. If this is the case, how is the LCHF diet going to ever work for him?
What can I do to help him to help himself?
What can I do just generally, or not do to support him? Just any help/advice would be very much appreciated.


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Hi @jess77
a warm welcome from me !!:)
wow -- a comprehensive first post that covers the lot !!

That feeling of having to sort it himself -- I know I feel like that at times ( if things aren't going well )

I am thinking that a pump would be really helpful because with the work put in , it is a very effective tool to combat dawn phenomenon , differing basal patterns for different types of day , as well as multi wave bolus , temporary basal rates ( all good tools for differing food and / or stress situations )

try and get him to join us on here -- he ( and you and your family ) are not alone.
 
Hello @jess77 Sorry to hear your husband is struggling. The positive point is that he can improve his control and lots of things can be done to make this more manageable but the knock on effect of running high/low is the effect on his moods which would contribute to his sleep deprivation, yes low carb is a good aspect to manage but getting his basal level right is the foundation for his control and only until he can get this right will he see some sense in his blood glucose results. Yes a pump would help massively too if he is willing to go down this route. Good idea from HT, try and encourage him to join this forum, sounds like he needs some support from other type 1's ;)
 
Hi @jess77 :)

Sorry your husband is struggling so much. High sugars are exhausting and can really get you down.

You say he's altered his basal injections due to overlapping effects - has he done a basal test since doing that? The basal is the foundation of good control so getting that right makes things easier.

You've mentioned he's started LCHF. Most Type 1s here eat moderate carbs rather than very low. It may be that his change in diet requires a change in basal. LCHF can cause a level of physiological insulin resistance, and that's another possible factor to consider. Sometimes it's easier to have a small amount of carbs with a meal, I've found personally, as it stops delayed highs and means I don't have to worry about the effect of the protein unless I have a giant portion.

If he doesn't already have it,I recommend the book Think Like A Pancreas. It's very popular here - and for good reason. It's also wriitten in a chatty kind of way so easy to read.

To support your husband, maybe you could reassure him that you understand how difficult control can be and that you think he's working really hard. Perhaps frame things as you and him being a team against the diabetes? You're working together to solve the problems of the highs.

Another option to explore is an insulin pump, if he qualifies for one.
 
Hi,

His basal dose is wrong. He's then correcting it with bolus injections and thereby not correcting it. 'Stacking' of bolus insulin is quite a weird and tricky thing to manage so he should definitely try and avoid doing that.

I find my bolus requirements change markedly during the day; in the morning I need much more in terms of insulin:carbs than I do in the evening. It's a dynamic system so once he's sorted out the basal (google basal testing) then he should consider his bolus ratios to carbohydrate for each meal not as a constant.

But first he needs to exhale and sort out the basal.

If Levemir is not working he could switch to Tresiba (which is the longest acting basal insulin).

Levemir and Lantus do not work for 24 hours whatever the makers of them claim; I split my Levemir in half and that works well for me.

Bernstein, Libre, LCHF are the right approach in my opinion but nothing will work if your basal is wrong.

Best

Dillinger
 
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Thank you all for your quick replies.it feels better already that there are people 'out there' who can help us. Basal testing had crossed my mind too, I wondered if his needs had changed as a result of the change in diet. I'm concerned that the tests won't work because of the various requirements-he will never get a period of a few hours without his levels going sky high, even when he's not eaten anything. He certainly couldn't make sure there is no stress either. In fact, if he could do the test I think the majority of his problems would be solved! Maybe I've misunderstood?
Before the change in diet he had got his different bolus ratios sorted for different times of day, I think he's basing the new ones on these but for protein and I think halving it?
I think if I can get him to start posting on this forum with you that would be a a big step in the right direction so I'll work on that.
He did qualify for a pump last year but changed his mind (probably went down that route because of pressure from me). I'm hoping that with his libre now 'attached' he might be closer to thinking again about the pump.
 
Hi @jess77 sorry to hear about your hubbys kevels. Like others have suggested he will need to test his levemir. Might i suggest a 3am test and also a no carb lunch test. This means leaving enoufh hours for the humalog to have finished
Best of luck and keep us updated so we can help more
 
As everyone has said, basal testing and getting that right IS THE thing to do first.

Can I suggest he gets a log book, and notes down everything he eats, injects including ratios, blood tests/scans, how he feels etc then each week review it, pick out the best days and see what's different on that day to the others, patterns will appear. Look for the positives!

Get him to sign up, we're here to help as much as we!
 
Log book is a great idea and it will be something he can take to appointments
 
I would be looking to his clinic/team for assistance, specifically, educational courses.........I think what he would definitely benefit from is seeing what needs to be down broke down and seeing other like him, fighting the daily battle too...so getting him motivated again......

I would point out that the basal should always be taken, always.....so if hes missing this dose, he should be back on this immediately.....this keep s you steady in the absence of food or bolus......so if there is an absence of food or bolus and the BG is still high or low, the dose needs adjusted....
 
Hello -

I was diagnosed a year ago (and still getting the hang of it!) So i'm not the right person to give any advice on what to do..but i understand how the yo-yoing of blood sugars make you feel, it does get you down. It can be so tedious and exhausting! It's easy to get stuck in a rut and get down about it all, but you do start to feel better once you get good sugar levels, your mood improves, you are less tired.. you know all this anyway i'm sure :) It sounds like he really has been struggling and trying and getting nowhere and that must wear thin after a while! But i do kind of understand what you are saying... my dad has also been type one since he was 18, he is 46 now and he has quite old school views about it, he has never really moved on from what he was told when he was young by doctors etc.. he refuses help of any kind, he likes to 'sort things out himself' too. So i also understand how frustrating it can be getting someone to think slightly differently about it all!

This forum is great, i'm glad i found it and i have learnt alot since joining - it's a help to know other's are going through the same issues and worries - there are also lots of knowledgeable people on here with lots of info so please don't hesitate to ever ask questions.. someone will always try to help.

Good luck with it all. Hope things get a little easier with the right help/management.
 
'sort things out himself'

Being the same age as your dad I know exactly what he means! (although he has a few years more T1D experience).

@jess77 Is he bounding from one high to a low and then a high again and repeat..........!? Sometimes after a low you can over correct on the sugars, sometimes you get it spot on but still go high - the liver dumps a load of glucose in response to the initial low, and along with the hypo treatment consumed you shoot up, and a bit later test and think oh my gosh better correct with insulin, and then the liver decides to grab back the excess glucose just as the plunger clicks to a stop - 2 hours* later bam hypo time again. If this is happening try and get him to not correct with insulin - just for one day see how it goes - having the Libre will help but obviously if he's constantly high and going higher then correct.

*the liver can grab back at any time, within a few minutes to 48hrs which ever is the most inconvenient time!
 
Hi, just a thought but maybe leave this thread open for him to find. Then he would see how worried you are and how much support and knowledge is here for him if he wants it. It would let him read and digest it all at his own pace with no pressure. It must be so overwhelming for him as well as for you. I wish you both well.
 
Hi Slip, thanks for your reply. I think what you describe does happen but not as quickly. My impression is that he tends to go shooting up rapidly from normal-ish levels and then struggles for hours and hours to shift them back down again, but yes, as you describe, they can then come down too quickly and too low as there are a few insulin doses that then seem to finally take effect at the same time. What we can't understand is why he seems to get this liver dump starting from normal levels. I'm not sure it's always stress related. He can also experience days when despite eating and eating, he cannot bring his levels up into a normal range which I can see now is the liver 're-stocking' (and maybe residual insulin in his system) as you describe- so thank you for that! Yesterday he said that it can take 2 or 3 days to come down off a 'roller coaster' day.
Do you have any tips as to how not to eat too much when you are low/going low as I think this happens a lot?
I've asked him to consider basal testing because of his diet change.
 
Hi Chalup, thank you for your post. I think that's probably good idea, although I feel a bit nervous about it though not sure why. Sometimes I think I add to his feelings of being under pressure because he sees how desperate I am to help (eg when I suggest he drink cider vinegar!). I might think about that one.
 
What does he currently usually do to treat a hypo? Bare in mind if he's stacked some insulin due to a high and come crashing down the treatment would be some what more aggressive to help recover the level and keep it there. And every ones treatment needs are individual.

If I'm in the mid to low 3s I literally have 2-3 glucotabs and a biscuit, that should see me to my next meal, depending on the situation though!

As I said earlier, get him to write a log/diary of events, patterns will show up - you may find those days where he can't get his levels up and stay up may follow the day from hell on the roller coaster, or a particularly stressful day at work - or the other way around! If using the Libre log all and every carb and injection on that - then the reports the software creates could be an eye opener.
 
He takes gluco tabs and a biscuit too, but I'm not sure on quantities. I think like you said, it depends on whether he's come crashing down and if he knows he's taken loads of insulin. I think it is often too much but perhaps it's also because the liver kicks in too. Do you get a glucagon dump when you're on 3?
I agree he should document it all and look for patterns, I'll look at the libre software as he's not set that up yet. I like the concept of looking at what works rather than the opposite too.
 
Do you have any tips as to how not to eat too much when you are low/going low as I think this happens a lot?
I've asked him to consider basal testing because of his diet change.

That's a great question (your husband is very lucky to have you on the case here) - I think one of the absolute hardest things in the wonderful world of Type 1 diabetes is accurate correction of lows/hypos. If you are really feeling a hypo then your whole nervous system is telling you to eat at exactly the same time as adrenaline is kicking in and your rational mind is withdrawing from the room. It's really tricky.

I would say you have to have glucose tablets and eat three of them. They are pretty disgusting so they don't invite too much gorging and then you have to wait for 10 minutes and try not to panic and gorge. Then test again and see how you are; if still low repeat and keep doing that until you are at the right level. Obviously if something really weird is going on and your sugars are plummeting then don't wait. But that approach is the correct one for mild lows. Much easier said than done however...

I find eating biscuits or children's snacks or Mars Bars and things like that always drags you too high.
 
That's a great question (your husband is very lucky to have you on the case here) - I think one of the absolute hardest things in the wonderful world of Type 1 diabetes is accurate correction of lows/hypos. If you are really feeling a hypo then your whole nervous system is telling you to eat at exactly the same time as adrenaline is kicking in and your rational mind is withdrawing from the room. It's really tricky.

I would say you have to have glucose tablets and eat three of them. They are pretty disgusting so they don't invite too much gorging and then you have to wait for 10 minutes and try not to panic and gorge. Then test again and see how you are; if still low repeat and keep doing that until you are at the right level. Obviously if something really weird is going on and your sugars are plummeting then don't wait. But that approach is the correct one for mild lows. Much easier said than done however...

I find eating biscuits or children's snacks or Mars Bars and things like that always drags you too high.

My daughter and I buy the "fun size" and multipack Haribo sweets. They work out 10p/pack - 25 for £2 or thereabouts.

They are about 12-16g of carbs in each, dependent on whether they are jelly babies/starmix/etc which is ideal for when your sugars are three point something.

One pack, one dose.

John
 
The reality with T1 is that basal, bolus, food effects all act simultaneously but independently to vary your BG. If you have not got a clear understanding of each then you can get chaotic and unstable BGs with little obvious logic as to what is going on.

That preamble is essentially to support the earlier posters and the recommendation that you sort out the basal first. Then you can tackle the relationship between bolus insulin and food - ie ratios/pre-bolus before eating, duration of insulin action etc.

Be careful not to go too low carb at this point or you will start hitting issues with needing to bolus for protein - save that one for later!

Final point will be to up the frequency of testing to understand what is going on. Or my personal preference go get a Freestyle Libre for continuous monitoring of BG, even if just for a few weeks it is massively informative.
 
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