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Type 2: Fasting Experiment To Lower Bg

ringi said:
https://blog.virtahealth.com/how-much-protein-on-keto/

If fasting for only 23hr at a time, there are no additional issues with muscle lose. Resistance training will help.
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Thank you for your help @ringi I have had a look at that article and I think I am getting about the right amount of protein in at the moment - I am also monitoring how I feel in terms of tiredness etc, and I am feeling great on OMAD, and my macros are looking better on the nutrition tracker I am using.
 

Great results. Following this with interest - thanks for posting.
 
Today is my weekly weigh in day for the weight loss group I run online - ironic really, when for the last few years I have just put weight on. Doing all the figures for the weight loss group and engaging with the other members has probably stopped me putting on a lot more weight than I did. This week I lost an astonishing 4 kilos (8.8lb). Some of that is water weight from last week as I did a lot of walking up and down hills that I wasn't used to, which caused some inflammation as my muscles repaired themselves, and more than a little more is a result of eating to my meter this week.

In the last 57 days since I started looking after myself better a couple of weeks before my Type 2 diagnosis, I have lost 13.5 kilos - or 29.8lb. My BMI has gone down from a shocking 42.2 (morbidly obese) to 37.8 today (at the lower end of severely obese). My aim is to get into the normal BMI range, and see how far down that I need to go to get rid of all the visceral fat and improve my insulin resistance so I might one day be able to eat a little piece of home made sour dough bread occasionally without my meter screaming for mercy. Lots of butter, obviously.

I feel a lot better in myself, and the LCHF diet is giving me so much energy. Before I changed to LCHF my moods were all over the place, but now everything seems so much easier, even though I still have a lot of issues that cause stress. I feel much better able to handle things now.

Before the diagnosis I felt terrible, and could barely get out of bed in the early afternoon before dragging myself around for the rest of the day. I am shocked at how bad I felt when the blood sugars were uncontrolled, and it is only now I realise how ill I was at the time.

The fasting I have done this week has been surprisingly easy to do, and I haven't had any real problems waiting to eat until the BG comes down into the target area. I have had coffee with coconut cream as part of the meal, and the rest of the time just water. This could be a sustainable way of eating to manage this condition.

Day 6 - Weight: 116.1 kilos / BMI 37.8 / Waist to Height Ratio: 69%

6.19am - FBG: 6.5
9.10am - DP: 5.8
8.02pm - Under 5.2: 5.1
8.33pm - Pre-meal: 5.6
10.02pm - Post-meal (2.5hrs): 6.7
12.26pm - Post-meal (4 hrs): 5.8
1.02am - Bedtime: 6.4

Meal: Steak, pan-fried in coconut oil with mushrooms, red onions and tomatoes, with little gem lettuce and full fat cottage cheese. Walnuts, almonds, pecans and hazelnuts, and a coffee with double cream. All other fluids water.

I am adding a couple of twist from my himalayan pink salt shaker to meals to increase my salt intake (added in response to @ringi 's very useful comment on Day 11).

Carbs: 29.5g
Protein: 73.4g
Fat: 121.3g
Cals: 1507

Length of Fast: 29hrs 5mins
Average BG Before Fast: 7.0
Today's Average BG Reading: 5.8

Interestingly the estimated HbA1c on the mySugr app has come down by around 0.2 - 0.4 points every day so far:

41.9 - Day 1 (baseline)
41.7 - Day 2
41.5 - Day 3
41.2 - Day 4
40.9 - Day 5
40.5 - Day 6
 
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@AllieRainbow
I can only express my complete admiration for what you have so far achieved. You have taken Type 2 by the scruff of the neck and given it a really good going over! You seem to be going from strength to strength and long may it continue.. another superstar!
 

Thank you @bulkbiker for all the encouragement - it is reading about your experiences and those of other members that has encouraged me to get stuck in and take steps to control this condition from the outset. If it wasn't for people sharing their thoughts and experiences on these forums, it would be a much lonelier and more difficult journey. As it is, the members here are tackling often difficult health issues which much humour and optimism - this is definitely the place for me!

I am feeling a little like I have a gun to my head at the moment - I am taking the potential for complications very seriously. However I am also having fun with this whole lifestyle change. It has made me completely re-think what I thought was a healthy diet for me - once I had BG readings I was surprised to see how badly I reacted to carbs. Before I would happily much through two or three large apples - now I know that my BG was probably rocketing afterwards. I have also had to learn whole new methods for cooking to make low carb "breads" - mainly for my husband as I am quite happy with veggies. I am going to try the keto cracker recipe from Diet Doctor this weekend though as I have discovered I love nuts and seeds (in moderation of course).

I really feel that this diagnosis is a gift - it is very positive to feel in control of your health, and now I get the opportunity to make a real difference to my health for the better.

Although I badly need to lose weight to improve my situation, the real focus is on improving BG results so that I can minimise my risk of complications. This has made it so much easier to lose weight and to not get discouraged if things are not moving in the direction I want. It makes me realise how much of over-eating is all in the mind and unrelated to the body's actual need for fuel. This makes it so easy to fast for relatively small periods of time.

I suspect fasting may get harder once I am a lot lighter, as now I have large fat reserves to call on, and once I get to my target weight there will not be so much.
 
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The fun thing and better overall health is what I love about this way of eating.. and not eating. We were in London yesterday and Victoria Station was chock full of food dispensers absolutely none of which I wanted to eat. Hubby wanted a snack so bought some crisps ... the stench when he opened the bag made me fast until we got home for dinner!
 
What I would dearly love to know is a standard range for muscle mass in my circumstances (female aged 70). I know what mine is, according to my Tanita scales, but have no idea if this is good or bad. I cannot find a thing other than quotes such as it is difficult to tell because we are all unique. Does anyone know?
 
Bluetit1802 said:
Thank you. I will do the same. Even the instructions for my Tanita scales don't mention it, although they do give the ranges for all the rest of the body composition.
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Bluetit it hadn’t even occurred to me to look in the manual that came with my scales. I have some Omron ones. According to a chart in the manual, women aged 60-79 with a low BMI (defined as under 18.5) should have a body fat % under 24; those with a BMI between 18.5 and 24.9 should have a body fat % between 24 and 35.9. It references the NIH/WHO guidelines and an article in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition from September 2000.

I’m in the age bracket below (40-59) and my body fat % is towards the upper end of the suggested range, which is pleasing as I was worried that it was too high.

Attaching a pic of the chart.
 

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Thanks @Goonergal , but I am after muscle mass, not body fat. My Tanita manual gives the body fat ranges, and all the other body composition ranges. It just doesn't give the muscle mass one.
 
Here I am on Day 7 of the experiment to see if I can lower my blood sugar by fasting until I get below a target measurement. I will summarise my progress over the last 7 days tomorrow, when I have all the data.

I have just got my cheap(ish) breathalyser from Amazon, so I will be able to look at my readings for breath acetone now as well. I just have to do a little research into that online first, so that may take a little while to incorporate. I will post any useful links here for reference.

We went to the cinema last night, and for the first time ever, the experience wasn't inextricably linked with food and drink. Normally I would be buying some popcorn either from the foyer, or smuggled in from a supermarket. I find myself thinking a lot less about food, apart from looking at macros and making sure I am getting the right nutrients in, which seems more important when it has to come from only one meal.

After a big stall for 3 weeks, my weight is now dropping every day, and I am close to reaching my first target of weighing 250lb. Losing a lot of weight to get into a healthy range now seems possible. I have some body composition scales ordered, so I will be able to track muscle over time to make sure I am guarding against losing too much lean body mass, and building up some muscle through exercise.

The fast yesterday was a little more taxing mentally, as it went to over 29 hours, but not really a problem. It was more to do with not wanting to go to the cinema without having eaten something, as I didn't want to eat after I got back because we were going to the late showing at 9.45pm. If I had not hit my target by then I would have probably had a very small meal of a few nuts and some cheese, rather than the full works.

I really struggled with eating my meal today and left part of it, and only drank a third of my coffee before I realised I couldn't physically drink any more. I think I have just discovered saiety. I will look at portion size again and make my meal smaller tomorrow.

Day 7 - Weight: 115.2 kilos / BMI 37.5 / Waist to Height Ratio: 69%

9.53am - FBG: 6.5
10.40am - DP: 6.7
7.57pm - Under 5.2: 5.0
8.37pm - Pre-meal: 5.5
10.37pm - Post-meal (2hrs): 6.7
11.42pm - Post-meal (3 hrs): 6.3
2.34am - Bedtime: 5.6

Meal: Salmon with cucumber and cottage cheese. Ham, keto seed crackers with Philadelphia, avocado and coriander. Walnuts, almonds, hazelnuts and pecans. Coffee with double cream. All other fluids water.

I am adding a couple of twist from my himalayan pink salt shaker to meals to increase my salt intake (added in response to @ringi 's very useful comment on Day 11).

Carbs: 20.0g
Protein: 90.4g
Fat: 139.2g
Cals: 1684

Length of Fast: 23hrs 24mins
Average BG Before Fast: 7.0
Today's Average BG Reading: 5.9
Breathalyser reading: 0.014% BAC

Interestingly the estimated HbA1c on the mySugr app has come down by around 0.2 - 0.4 points every day so far:

41.9 - Day 1 (baseline)
41.7 - Day 2
41.5 - Day 3
41.2 - Day 4
40.9 - Day 5
40.5 - Day 6
40.2 - Day 7
 
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Day 8 has started with a reading of 5.0, below the limit for breaking the fast, and the lowest I have got so since I started testing. Depending on whether this goes up in the next hour, or not, I may take the target reading down below 5. I am not sure what to do until I have taken another couple more readings. I am inclined to keep the fast length at 24 hours or more, as this seems to be working well, and I can manage it.

I decided in the end to wait until I had a BG reading of under 5.0. At 6.48pm I got the first reading so far in the 4s!! I really feel that I am making progress now, and I am feeling optimistic that I will see some more readings in the 4s over the next few days. I also tried cooking a curry from the Headbangers Kitchen YouTube channel, which was lovely, although I may have been little over generous with the spices. I will be drinking a lot of water tonight!

On the weight front, although the weight has gone up slightly today, my measurements all round have gone down, so I think all the exercise is paying off in increasing my muscle mass.

Day 8 - Weight: 115.7 kilos / BMI 37.7 / Waist to Height Ratio: 67%

7.23am - FBG: 5.0
8.27am - DP: 6.1
6.48pm - Under 5.0: 4.9
7.16pm - Pre-meal: 5.5
9.41pm - Post-meal (2hrs): 7.0
10.15pm - Post-meal (3 hrs): 6.7
12.31am - Bedtime: 6.0

Meal: Keto butter chicken curry from the Headbangers Kitchen recipe: with cucumber, cherry tomatoes and cottage cheese. Walnuts, almonds, and coffee with coconut cream. All other fluids water.

I am adding a couple of twist from my himalayan pink salt shaker to meals to increase my salt intake (added in response to @ringi 's very useful comment on Day 11).

Carbs: 27.1g
Protein: 69.7g
Fat: 148.8g
Cals: 1772

Length of Fast: 22hrs 11mins
Average BG Before Fast: 7.0
Today's Average BG Reading: 5.8
Breathalyser reading: 0.024% BAC

Interestingly the estimated HbA1c on the mySugr app has come down by around 0.2 - 0.4 points every day so far:

41.9 - Day 1 (baseline)
41.7 - Day 2
41.5 - Day 3
41.2 - Day 4
40.9 - Day 5
40.5 - Day 6
40.2 - Day 7
39.9 - Day 8

I suspect that doing more readings this week has probably skewed this a little downwards.
 
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Results for Week 1 of the fasting Experiment to lower BG

Fasting BG Day 1 (04/06/2018): 6.2
Fasting BG Day 8 (11/06/2018): 5.0

Longest time fasted: 29 hours 5 mins
Shortest time fasted: 18 hours 48 mins
Average length of time fasted: 23 hours 41 mins
Number of meals over 7 days: 7

Weight/BMI Day 1: 118.5 kilos (261.2lb/18st 9.2lb)/38.6
Weight/BMI Day 8: 115.7 kilos (255lbs/18st 3lb)/37.7
Weight/BMI Lost Wk 1: 2.8 kilos (6.2lbs)/0.9

The aims of the experiment were to see if I could lower blood glucose by setting a target for BG and not eating until I was in the target range. Initially I set the target to eat when BG was below 6.0 as my average BG since I had started testing was 7.0. I lowered the target to under 5.2 BG on Day 5 as I went under 6.0 after only 17 hours. At this point I will probably lower the target to under 5.0, dependent on results of testing today. I will maintain a 24 hour fast as this seems to work well for me.

I began to see more results under 5.5 after lowering the target, and the BG has continued to drop further down every day.

Another effect of fasting until I reached the target BG was that I lost 2.8 kilos (6.2 pounds) over 7 days. I have dropped a whole BMI point, and feel a lot better: more alert, with more energy. I didn't feel that it was a problem fasting - I did, however, feel a bit of pressure around the 22-23 hour point later in the week when the eating times were getting later due to concerns about meal size should it get later than I normally ate. I decided that if that happened I would have a light meal of nuts and boiled eggs or avocado. I think the main thing with the fasting seems to be having a plan, but being adaptable and not stressing too much about it.

I had a session of meditation on Day 2 of the fasting experiment, and that seemed helpful, I will be moving the meditation to Thursdays, and also adding in a reflexology session on Wednesday to see if I can find ways of relieving the stress of the diagnosis.

I will be continuing the experiment for at least another week to see the effect of a more extended period of intermittent fasting on the blood sugars.
 
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Well done, personly I think you will do well by just eating one meal a day at a preplanned time without the stress of waiting for your BG to come below the target first. The research shows that people do a little better if the one meal is in the morning, as inslin levels are lower, hence the excess BG is less likely to be stored as fat.
 
@ringi - you could be right - my own experience is that I seem to handle carbs better earlier in the day. I will carry on using this method for another week to see what happens and then possibly switch to one meal a day late morning.
 
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Up early again, wide awake and ready to start the day. Since starting the LCHF way of eating I have had bags of energy, and the contrast between how I feel now and how I felt pre-diagnosis is extreme. In the weeks leading up to diagnosis I struggled to get out of bed before the late afternoon and woke to the alarm in the morning, often struggling to open my eyes. Even my eyesight seems sharper now, which I think is to do with having much lower BG levels in the eyes. Once my BG is normalised I can't see me going back to to a way of eating and a lifestyle that made me feel so ill.

I thought I would really miss the bread: I used to bake my own, and spent a long time perfecting my techniques for baking bread until I got the perfect loaf. It feels a lot less relevant to me now, and I have made a couple of keto bread recipes, but bread is not the staple part of my diet it was before.

Today's food plan is a either a fish based meal with salad, or the leftover butter chicken curry with added lightly cooked kale and mushrooms. I am eating most of my veggies as salad as I feel raw veg is giving me a lot of texture and nutrients that I wouldn't be getting from cooked veg.

Early afternoon at 18hrs and 30mins into my fast today, I have been experiencing some hunger, and my BG is still in the low 6s, so I have a way to go today before I will be able to eat. I have had a coffee with a small amount of coconut cream in to see if this will work to blunt the hunger a little - I am sure it will go away soon. I have had my first retinopathy exam. this morning and been to see the nurse with my husband too, so I have suspect that my BG is slightly up today because of the stress. My eyes are still a little blurry from the eyedrops, and I have a slight headache. I am drinking another glass of water too to rehydrate and counteract the effect of the coffee, and do a little bit of cycling with my pedal exerciser to get rid of the headache, as this usually works quicker than painkillers.

Update: Interestingly there was a drop of 0.8 after the coffee...

As my target is slightly lower at under 5.0, I am expecting to eat some time this evening, and over the next few days the length of fast should come down.

I have called it a night on the food today as I am not in the 4s yet - 5.0, close but not close enough. This is a positive as I wanted to move my meal time to the morning, and this will enable me to do that tomorrow - fingers crossed. I am feeling OK and have had some more coffee with coconut cream, which is not affecting the blood sugar at all - the same reading an hour after as I had before I started drinking it.

I have just had another reading of 5.0 at bedtime, and I don't feel hungry now, so I don't anticipate any issues with having a longer fast this time.

Day 9 - Weight: 115.7 kilos / BMI 37.7 / Waist to Height Ratio: 67%

5.53am - FBG: 5.5
6.54am - DP: 5.6
? - Under 5.0: Not tonight, Josephine.
? - Pre-meal: ?
? - Post-meal (2hrs): ?
? - Post-meal (3 hrs): ?
11.31pm - Bedtime: 5.0

Meal: No meal today as BG not in target range, dealing with hunger with 4 cups of coffee with coconut cream, all other fluids water.

Carbs: 10.8g
Protein: 5.3g
Fat: 40.1g
Cals: 426

Length of Fast: BG not low enough to eat today - should be breaking fast tomorrow morning.
Average BG Before Fast: 7.0
Today's Average BG Reading: 5.6
Breathalyser reading: 0.023% BAC

Interestingly the estimated HbA1c on the mySugr app has come down by around 0.2 - 0.4 points every day so far:

41.9 - Day 1 (baseline)
41.7 - Day 2
41.5 - Day 3
41.2 - Day 4
40.9 - Day 5
40.5 - Day 6
40.2 - Day 7
39.9 - Day 8
39.6 - Day 9

I suspect that doing more readings this week has probably skewed this a little downwards.
 
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